AfTer Ferguson: Stop deferrring to the cops

[ThePlayDrive]

What lens do you see it through? A racial lens? There is nothing to respect about a position like that. Look, you had a guy assault a police office and struggle for control of that officers gun. I don't care what color you are, if you act the way Brown acted you are almost 100% likely to be shot. That you want this to be a racial issue is just evidence that you are motivated by something other than facts and reality.

I understand why you have this point of view, but it has no salience for me. If you do not respect a point of view that takes into account the role that race has played in this case, then we do not have enough common ground on which to have a fruitful conversation. In regards to your comments about my motivations, I'm sorry you see them that way and, as I've said I've said to others, I guess I'll just have to live with that.

 

[Fletch]

I understand why you have this point of view, but it has no salience for me. If you do not respect a point of view that takes into account the role that race has played in this case, then we do not have enough common ground on which to have a fruitful conversation. In regards to your comments about my motivations, I'm sorry you see them that way and, as I've said I've said to others, I guess I'll just have to live with that.

Any role race played in this case came AFTER the incident. So race played exactly zero role in Browns death. You just aren't able to come to terms with that reality.

 

[lifeisshort]

Well, less so from the witness statements, which contradicted the physical evidence, each other, and often the statement from one witness contradicted itself depending on which time frame the statements were taken.

Really, I think it was the hard physical evidence that made the GJ decision, more so than the witness statements.

Witnesses who's testimony fit the evidence were listened to while witnesses that claimed Brown was shot as he ran away were discarded due to no bullet entry holes in the back.

 

[shrubnose]

Honestly.... Wtf?
Black cops shoot black people more frequently as well. Black people commit more violent crimes than other races. They are told from a young age that the police discriminate, which helps to encourage them to react violently when arrested.
This has nothing to do with "white people hating black folk."

If we stop claiming race as a motivator for every unfortunate thing that happens, we WILL move past this

.

Those who refuse to see race as the motivator for some of the unfortunate things that happen are one of the main reasons that the USA hasn't moved past this.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

And what details do you have about exactly how the prosecutor handled the evidence?

I'll wager nothing other than the fact that you don't like the result.

60+ witnesses and 24 volumes of information ain't just chicken feed.

The sheer amount of evidence that the prosecutor gave the grand jury is very rare; it is also far beyond what is necessary to get an indictment. I consider that "data dump" to be one element of the prosecutor's behavior that was a problem. I understand if you see it differently. I can live with that.

 

[countryboy]

The case of Michael Brown shows that America is far too protective of those who have been entrusted to enforce order.

Read the article here: After Ferguson: Stop deferring to the cops - The Week

None of us were on the scene when Officer Wilson killed Michael Brown so we don't know exactly what happened.

But we do know that there is a huge problem in the USA between white law enforcement officers and young black males.

Until that problem is sorted out there will be more situations like Ferguson.

Who wants that?

But there were multiple witnesses on the scene, and their testimony corroborates Officer Wilson's. And, many of the corroborating witnesses are Black.

You do make a valid point though. YOU weren't on the scene, but that hasn't stopped you from ASSuming officer Wilson was somehow in the wrong. I appreciate your candor.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

A lot of White people don't understand that the police treat Black (and Hispanic) Americans differently. From their point of view, the main or only reason police would use force on someone is if that person did something wrong. That's the lens that they view cases like Michael Brown through. That's why they accept Darren Wilson's story without question. That's why they don't consider that Michael Brown, if he were alive, might tell a completely different story worth listening to. They are deeply invested in their just-world narrative of the fair police officer because that is the sort of relationship that they, as White people, have had with police historically.

Now, there are many White people who reject this just-world narrative of cops. They are critical enough to see that treatment is not equitable. These are the people who will be on the "right side" of history because these are the people who were able recognize and reject injustice towards a group that they do not belong to.

Police are always fair? That's humorous.

Every time I've ever been stopped by police (all white), and the few times I have, its all been for traffic violations. All treated be with suspicion and were wary even though they had the distinct advantage, and I cooperated completely. Some were even a**holes.

I'm not a proponent of how law enforcement treats citizens either when they stop you for whatever reason. But when a police officer has a distinct immediate disadvantage, I'll defer to the officer every time instead of creating a physical challenge and being handcuffed and put in jail, or shot.

If you would bother to read the grand jury report you may understand why some may conclude your sentiments reek of :bs

 

[tomkat364]

Those who refuse to see race as the motivator for some of the unfortunate things that happen are one of the main reasons that the USA hasn't moved past this.

There is prejudice in every society, and directed at every race by some other race. But right now, there is much more animosity and prejudice against the wealthy than against another race. I don't doubt that some people act out of racially motivated sentiments, but using this case as an example is ridiculous. Brown was shot because he was a violent felon who did not comply with the legal actions taken by a cop. Using him as a rallying flag makes it seem like we should ignore his status as a criminal because he was black, and the "peaceful protests" we're hardly different from a classic lynching.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Police are always fair? That's humorous.

Every time I've ever been stopped by police (all white), and the few times I have, its all been for traffic violations. All treated be with suspicion and were wary even though they had the distinct advantage, and I cooperated completely. Some were even a**holes.

I'm not a proponent of how law enforcement treats citizens either when they stop you for whatever reason. But when a police officer has a distinct immediate disadvantage, I'll defer to the officer every time instead of creating a physical challenge and being handcuffed and put in jail, or shot.

If you would bother to read the grand jury report you may understand why some may conclude your sentiments reek of :bs

I did not say that the police are always fair. I did, however, that the police treat Black and Hispanic Americans differently and that White people have a historically fair relationship with the police. This, I believe, is true.

And, I completely understand why people have concluded that my point of view is BS. You and others think that my perspective is ignorant, biased and host of other negative adjectives. My response to that is : So what?

 

[shrubnose]

But there were multiple witnesses on the scene, and their testimony corroborates Officer Wilson's. And, many of the corroborating witnesses are Black.

You do make a valid point though.

YOU

weren't on the scene, but that hasn't stopped you from ASSuming officer Wilson was somehow in the wrong. I appreciate your candor.

I don't assume anything.

Nothing will bring Michael Brown back to life, But his death wasn't properly investigated by the law enforcement personnel who were on the scene immediately after his death.

More will be heard about this, wait and see, this case is a long ways from being over.

 

[JayDubya]

Nothing will bring Michael Brown back to life.

Given his behavior before his death, I'm pretty fine with that. He was an adult, he made some repugnant choices, he got himself killed.

 

[mike2810]

........................

More will be heard about this, wait and see, this case is a long ways from being over.

I agree. Lawyers will be comping at the bit to go to civil court. The heck with right or wrong. Some lawyers see a big payday ahead.

 

[eohrnberger]

I don't assume anything.

Nothing will bring Michael Brown back to life, But his death wasn't properly investigated by the law enforcement personnel who were on the scene immediately after his death.

More will be heard about this, wait and see, this case is a long ways from being over.

On which set of facts do you make this assertion? That the event wasn't properly investigated? If I may be so bold as to ask.

 

[countryboy]

I don't assume anything.

Nothing will bring Michael Brown back to life, But his death wasn't properly investigated by the law enforcement personnel who were on the scene immediately after his death.

More will be heard about this, wait and see, this case is a long ways from being over.

The only reason the case is a long ways from being over is because of racist agitators like Eric Holdem. If a GJ cannot indict, there is no case. Only wishful thinking on your part.

 

[eohrnberger]

I agree. Lawyers will be comping at the bit to go to civil court. The heck with right or wrong. Some lawyers see a big payday ahead.

True. And even if the court's decision in these pending civil legal cases is in favor of the police department and the city, it will do nothing to prevent the vast expenditures to prepare a legal defense.

Sometimes it strikes me that the lawyers elected to office that are writing these laws are conducting little more than a vast lawyer jobs program on the sly.

 

[tomkat364]

Instead of viewing this in terms of "race", consider it more from a cultural perspective. People of different cultures react differently to cops, and this generates the different way that cops react to different cultures. Upstanding citizens who are taught to respect cops and their authority have no problem acting civilly to police, and are treated accordingly. People who are taught that cops are "out to get them" act less cooperatively and antagonize armed men with legal authority. That is a stupid action, and will get you into trouble.

Even Chris Rock understands this basic concept...
Chris Rock - How not to get your ass kicked by the police! - YouTube

 

[shrubnose]

On which set of facts do you make this assertion? That the event wasn't properly investigated? If I may be so bold as to ask.

Research, research, research.

I've done a lot of reading-I suggest that you do the same.

 

[countryboy]

Research, research, research.

I've done a lot of reading-I suggest that you do the same.

Soooo, you can't even post the most salient points? For all we know you are relying on cop hating leftist sites.

 

[ocean515]

I don't issue with the Grand Jury process so much as I take issue with how the Prosecutor handled the process in this particular case. In regards to your question of how justice could be served in a public trial, I would point out that many high profile trials have been held in the public eye. It is possible. It has been done before. I will say, however, that I do think that the police and others involved in the justice system should take the safety of witnesses more seriously than they already do.

In regards to why people who disagree with the Grand Jury decision reject what is found in the testimonies and evidence released, I would respond that it has not been my impression that people are rejecting what has been found. Instead, I would argue that people have not found what you have - they have found something different. Perhaps you believe that the conclusions they've drawn from the information released is erroneous, but I disagree and I don't know that we will ever share the same perspective.

It's quite possible we won't achieve the same perspective. While you haven't answered the question that adds anything to my understanding, that is on me, and I appreciate the effort.

 

[Fenton]

Research, research, research.

I've done a lot of reading-I suggest that you do the same.

You can read until your eyes fall out, but you can still be highly misinformed.

Maybe you should pay more attention to WHAT YOU READ, be more selective instead of diving into nonsensical crap just because it supports your opinion.

 

[mike2810]

True. And even if the court's decision in these pending civil legal cases is in favor of the police department and the city, it will do nothing to prevent the vast expenditures to prepare a legal defense.

Sometimes it strikes me that the lawyers elected to office that are writing these laws are conducting little more than a vast lawyer jobs program on the sly.

I thinking more in lines of the plaintiff lawyer for the family of Brown.

 

[Hatuey]

In 1988 Pulitzer Prize-winning WaPo columnist William Raspberry was warning "Black America's House Is on Fire." His advice was to put out the fire in your own "house."

Here's what Walter Williams said in August: Blacks Must Confront Reality - Walter E. Williams - Page full

Good grief...

One study of 19th-century slave families found that in up to three-fourths of the families, all the children lived with the biological mother and father.

Anybody who looks at slavery for answers as to what's wrong with the black community can immediately be discounted for idiocy. Mostly because they then turn around and claim that slavery has nothing to do with what's wrong with the black community today.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

The case of Michael Brown shows that America is far too protective of those who have been entrusted to enforce order.

Read the article here: After Ferguson: Stop deferring to the cops - The Week

None of us were on the scene when Officer Wilson killed Michael Brown so we don't know exactly what happened.

But we do know that there is a huge problem in the USA between white law enforcement officers and young black males.

Until that problem is sorted out there will be more situations like Ferguson.

Who wants that?

There is not a problem in the USA between white police officers and young black males. You really should get your head out of the segregation era. All of the physical evidence supports Officer Wilson's side of the story. Most of the witness accounts support Wilson's side of the story. Officer Wilson did not handle Michael Brown any different then he would have handled a white suspect. The problem is that anytime there is a publicized confrontation between a white officer and a black suspect, race pimps like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson swoop in and stoke the fires.

 

[shrubnose]

Soooo, you can't even post the most salient points?

For all we know you are relying on cop hating leftist sites.

You don't know. Believe whatever you want to believe, won't cost me a nickel.

I'll just say one more time if you spend as much time as I have reading about this case you'll know a lot more.

But not as much as Michael Brown knows and he's not talking. :roll:

 

[Goshin]

Don't rob, don't fight the police... and your odds of being shot by the police go down dramatically... ought to be the 'take away' from this particular incident.