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After a tragedy, how long should we wait to engage in serious discussion?

After a tragedy, how long should we wait to engage in serious discussion?


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radcen

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After a tragedy, such as Orlando, how long should we wait to engage in serious discussion?

Serious discussion such as gun control, anti-terrorist measures, placing blame, and so on.
 

SocialD

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After a tragedy, such as Orlando, how long should we wait to engage in serious discussion?

Serious discussion such as gun control, anti-terrorist measures, placing blame, and so on.

engage in it with people directly involved such as victims families or do you mean society.. are you thinking about avoiding being reactionary and avoiding sensationalism or being sensitive to the families or?
 

EMNofSeattle

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After a tragedy, such as Orlando, how long should we wait to engage in serious discussion?

Serious discussion such as gun control, anti-terrorist measures, placing blame, and so on.

I would say we have a right to discuss public policy right away, I don't think it's direspectful or shameful to discuss incidents immediately and have dialouge, I would say though that as a best practice political leaders should wait just long enough that we have a working knowledge of what happened before we discuss specific measures however.
 

Nilly

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After a tragedy, such as Orlando, how long should we wait to engage in serious discussion?

Serious discussion such as gun control, anti-terrorist measures, placing blame, and so on.

Straight away. As long as such discussions are kept separate from other discussions about such incidents where people are still paying their respects etc, and are prefaced appropriately.

On this website, for example, I have no issues with people talking about the guns/homophobia/islamism in the context of the Orlando shooting, but I think it should probably stay out of the breaking news thread?
 

radcen

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engage in it with people directly involved such as victims families or do you mean society.. are you thinking about avoiding being reactionary and avoiding sensationalism or being sensitive to the families or?
I was thinking people such as you and I in public forums, etc.
 

SocialD

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I was thinking people such as you and I in public forums, etc.

That all depends on how rational the people such as you and I are.
Discussing is good. but you know that some people don't discuss. they just run with the sensationalism of it and ride the fervor to promote something that might not be rational at all.
Discussion with reason and facts. if you can do that you can do it any time.
 

radcen

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I voted to give it a day. I don't think there's anything wrong, per se, about discussing immediately... as long as we respect the families of the victims, as someone has already said... but I'm finding that if I digest the information for a day I can put together better thoughts. And nothing is going to get done in less than a day, anyway.
 

Skeptic Bob

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There is no reason to wait. Frankly, unless you personally knew the victims, right after a tragedy is the perfect time to address the issues that led to the tragedy. I just wish politicians, on both sides, knew how to do that intelligently without looking like all they care about is their own personal agenda.
 

Phys251

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To paraphrase The Most Interesting Man in the World:

There is a time and a place for waiting. The time--is never. (You can figure out the place on your own.)
 

MrWonka

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After a tragedy, such as Orlando, how long should we wait to engage in serious discussion?

If we waited any amount of time following a mass shooting in order to engage in such a discussion there would never be a time for serious discussion. A mass shooting happens in the U.S. pretty much every other day.
 

chromium

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i got accused of doing this too soon, politicizing too soon, but this is the internet. That's all you see

i cried a bit, expressed sympathy for victims elsewhere. The fact is though this is a debate, and while my opinions may change as time allows clarity, anyone who didn't know the victims personally and in serious mourning who claims they weren't that same day thinking about the socio-political aftermath is probably lying. I don't even know why bother with a pretense

"out of respect for the victims" to me means not blaming them, as i sadly saw one former friend doing
 

TurtleDude

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After a tragedy, such as Orlando, how long should we wait to engage in serious discussion?

Serious discussion such as gun control, anti-terrorist measures, placing blame, and so on.

how would gun control have mattered given the guy had been investigated by the FBI and they didn't do anything to disqualify him from owning a gun and he passed background checks to both buy guns and to be a licensed security guard
 

chromium

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If we waited any amount of time following a mass shooting in order to engage in such a discussion there would never be a time for serious discussion. A mass shooting happens in the U.S. pretty much every other day.

yeah, that is true, although there are additional intersections in this case like religion, immigration, sexuality and possibly borderline personality. Oh yeah, and the fbi fawning over itself as heroes after its massive **** up

in most mass shootings it's about gangs, generational poverty, and race. It's not that people don't wait to discuss it but they get bored of it because they don't care about the victims and it's always similar
 

chromium

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how would gun control have mattered given the guy had been investigated by the FBI and they didn't do anything to disqualify him from owning a gun and he passed background checks to both buy guns and to be a licensed security guard

um because he shouldn't have passed a background check DUH

the deranged who make threats to coworkers and are on terror watch lists should NEVER be able to purchase guns OR work as security guard
 

TurtleDude

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If we waited any amount of time following a mass shooting in order to engage in such a discussion there would never be a time for serious discussion. A mass shooting happens in the U.S. pretty much every other day.

uh that's not true at all. most firearms deaths are either suicides or criminals killing other criminals.
 

TurtleDude

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um because he shouldn't have passed a background check DUH

the deranged who make threats to coworkers and are on terror watch lists should NEVER be able to purchase guns OR work as security guard

that isn't a gun control issue. that is a law enforcement issue and the failures are not a lack of gun laws but rather the following

1) his ex wife not reporting his alleged abuse to authorities/ Beating one's wife is called domestic violence and even a DV MISDEMEANOR conviction will bar you from buying or owning guns

2) his fellow employees constantly complained about his actions-yet nothing was done

3) btw those on the terror watch lists is not grounds to be stripped of their rights. do you understand how easy it is to put someone on that list?
 

MrWonka

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uh that's not true at all. most firearms deaths are either suicides or criminals killing other criminals.

With 10,000 gun deaths per year and only 365 days in a year there is plenty of room for both of our statements to be accurate which they are.
 

TurtleDude

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With 10,000 gun deaths per year and only 365 days in a year there is plenty of room for both of our statements to be accurate which they are.

10,000 -with 80% being committed by people who cannot legally own guns and most of the victims are the same. and many of the remaining 2000 involve people who are engaged in a criminal lifestyle but have yet to be convicted or have juvenile records that cannot be retrieved from a data base. gun deaths are actually going down even though the number of guns has gone way up in the last 20 years
 

EMNofSeattle

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that isn't a gun control issue. that is a law enforcement issue and the failures are not a lack of gun laws but rather the following

1) his ex wife not reporting his alleged abuse to authorities/ Beating one's wife is called domestic violence and even a DV MISDEMEANOR conviction will bar you from buying or owning guns

2) his fellow employees constantly complained about his actions-yet nothing was done

3) btw those on the terror watch lists is not grounds to be stripped of their rights. do you understand how easy it is to put someone on that list?

what were they supposed to do? there's only so much you can accomplish with complaints.

years ago we had a shooting at a coffee house in Seattle, the killers father knew he was messed up and had guns, he had called the police multiple times, they did nothing, he went to have his son committed and the court said no.

you can't do things like this by yourself in this society.
 

chromium

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that isn't a gun control issue. that is a law enforcement issue and the failures are not a lack of gun laws but rather the following

1) his ex wife not reporting his alleged abuse to authorities/ Beating one's wife is called domestic violence and even a DV MISDEMEANOR conviction will bar you from buying or owning guns

2) his fellow employees constantly complained about his actions-yet nothing was done

3) btw those on the terror watch lists is not grounds to be stripped of their rights. do you understand how easy it is to put someone on that list?

1) this is why we can't rely on victim's of domestic abuse

2) oh but what about his rights!

3) *no one* should be able to purchase ARs, so i couldn't give a rat's ass. And the victims have rights too, such as not being killed in cold blood, but you and the terrorist enabling NRA clearly don't give a damn about that

4) (since i know you will argue this next) no this particular loser would not have gotten his hands on an AR on the black market if the steps i outlined were taken
 

ttwtt78640

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um because he shouldn't have passed a background check DUH

the deranged who make threats to coworkers and are on terror watch lists should NEVER be able to purchase guns OR work as security guard

How about those that feel due process is not necessary to deny folks their rights? DUH ;)

Perhaps because no criminal charges were ever made, there was never a trial much less a conviction. Putting folks on "possibly a bad guy" lists requires absolutely no judicial involvement - that form of "just us" is unconstitutional.
 

TurtleDude

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what were they supposed to do? there's only so much you can accomplish with complaints.

years ago we had a shooting at a coffee house in Seattle, the killers father knew he was messed up and had guns, he had called the police multiple times, they did nothing, he went to have his son committed and the court said no.

you can't do things like this by yourself in this society.

I agree, what did the employer do?
 

TurtleDude

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That is false. Even people who are on the Terror watch list can buy guns.

you understand that your response to me was completely irrelevant to my comment about the 80% who are banned from owning guns since they have criminal records

do you understand that being on the "terrorist watch list" means

1) that you most likely have no criminal record

2) you are not under indictment

3) You are not being investigated by a grand jury

4) but rather you merely had your name placed on the list by some bureaucrat without any due process because

a) you have the same name as a terrorist

b) you have a family member who may have associated with a terrorist-whether you knew that or not

c) you have a relationship with someone that is also on that list whether you know that or not
 

TurtleDude

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1) this is why we can't rely on victim's of domestic abuse

2) oh but what about his rights!

3) *no one* should be able to purchase ARs, so i couldn't give a rat's ass. And the victims have rights too, such as not being killed in cold blood, but you and the terrorist enabling NRA clearly don't give a damn about that

4) (since i know you will argue this next) no this particular loser would not have gotten his hands on an AR on the black market if the steps i outlined were taken

that's just stupid to say that no one should be able to purchase a semi auto rifle. there are over 40 million such rifles in the USA and that includes the millions sold to the public by our own government-those MI carbines shoot just as fast, hold just as many bullets and are actually more concealable than AR 15s.

AR 15s are used to kill less innocents than baseball bats and fists. so tell me why you are having a meltdown over those rifles other than you think its going to harass the NRA or honest gun owners.

your rights are protected by the fact that if anyone shoots you with any gun, they are going to prison for a long time -or in texas or my state-to death row.

you don't have a right to deprive me of something based on your hysterical fear that one day I might illegally use it against you

its like saying we should ban gay sex because someone with AIDS might fatally infect someone else
 
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