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Affirmative Action....come On!

SouthernDemocrat said:
You right wingers are something else. You have all the money and power and you still complain. I am a white male, as such:

- I statistically get paid more than women or minorities in the same profession as I am.

- I statistically enjoy a higher standard of living than minorities and single women.

- I statistically enjoy better healthcare than minorities and I have a longer projected lifespan because of it.

- To top it off, a very disproportionate number of those who represent me are white males just like me. In fact the good old Republican Party who claims to have such a big tent, has not even put the money and resources behind one African American to get them elected to either House of Congress. Basically almost all Republicans look just like me and since they are the party in power, things could not look better for me and all my white male peers.

I grew up poor, and through hard work have done ok so far in life. My wife and I having good careers with good benefits and as such live good middle class lives. I like to attribute my success in life so far (I am not rich, I just have a job that I like doing that pays me decently) to hard work and constantly educating myself in technologies related to my career (I am a Systems Administrator), but still I have to admit a small part of my success probably has to do with me being a white male and all those advantages that go along with that. In fact, in the vast majority of companies I have worked for, the vast majority of the best jobs seemed to go to white males like myself, or the occasional white woman. My point in all this being is that if you’re a white male, you already have a leg up on any one else ion the road of life here in America and if your not succeeding it probably is much more your own fault than the fault of Affirmative Action which only purpose is to try to level that playing field even a little.
Click to expand...


So why:

- are you accepting of raises over your peers? You should not accept
any pay raises over and above the statistical norm (as set forth
by any average of your minority peers).

- don't you move to a lower income neighborhood, sell one of your
televisions, go down to one car, buy your kids' clothes at the thrift shop?
In other words, lower your standard of living.

- don't you stop going to the doctor? You'd kick off sooner, statistically
speaking.

- don't you vote those pesky white males out of office? Move to an
inner city neighborhood where, statistically speaking, you have a better
chance of having a minority representative.

Am I being ridiculous? Yes. I hereby apologize for any offense taken.
I'm only trying to make a point.

You're making an argument against the very success you enjoyed, basing
it on the your whiteness. Have you ever stopped to think maybe the
"hard work" you mentioned in your note is the true cause of your
success? Is it possible that others could mimic that success through
the very same principle? You're giving hard work a bad name through
your argument that all the obstacles you overcame were due to
race and/or class. Since you were poor, per your self evaluation, that
takes class out of the equation, leaving race as your only other factor.
I suspect your tenacity (read: hard work) has brought you that success.
 
Last edited:
I would just like to say that I am against affirmative action as it is now. I believe that the intent of it was good but the way it is constructed is flawed at the core. The goal of our society is and should be to be completely color blind.

Now I have to agree that many whites do have more opportunities but that has nothing directly to do with the fact that they are white. It has to do with the fact that many were born middle or upper class and not poor. They had chances that were denied many less fortunate people. Just as the disadvantages that many minorities face are due to the fact that they were born poor. However many whites are poor and many minorities are middle or upper class. To assume that because a minority is a minority they need help in being an educated member of society is ridiculous and insulting.

If two equally qualified people are seeking a job, the one that is a minority should not get that job because he is a minority. Paint it as trying to establish equality or fix old wrongs... it is racism! You are saying that because someone is not white they need that little extra to get the same job. While racism sadly still exists in our society keep in mind that this is not 1870 or 1950... we have come a long way in getting rid of racism.

Side note:
However I believe affirmative action could be employed to help those that grew up with disadvantages economically and/or geographically.. poor inner city. (Just not on the basis of race.. come on people.)
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
You right wingers are something else. You have all the money and power and you still complain. I am a white male, as such:

- I statistically get paid more than women or minorities in the same profession as I am.

- I statistically enjoy a higher standard of living than minorities and single women.

- I statistically enjoy better healthcare than minorities and I have a longer projected lifespan because of it.

- To top it off, a very disproportionate number of those who represent me are white males just like me. In fact the good old Republican Party who claims to have such a big tent, has not even put the money and resources behind one African American to get them elected to either House of Congress. Basically almost all Republicans look just like me and since they are the party in power, things could not look better for me and all my white male peers.

I grew up poor, and through hard work have done ok so far in life. My wife and I having good careers with good benefits and as such live good middle class lives. I like to attribute my success in life so far (I am not rich, I just have a job that I like doing that pays me decently) to hard work and constantly educating myself in technologies related to my career (I am a Systems Administrator), but still I have to admit a small part of my success probably has to do with me being a white male and all those advantages that go along with that. In fact, in the vast majority of companies I have worked for, the vast majority of the best jobs seemed to go to white males like myself, or the occasional white woman. My point in all this being is that if you’re a white male, you already have a leg up on any one else ion the road of life here in America and if your not succeeding it probably is much more your own fault than the fault of Affirmative Action which only purpose is to try to level that playing field even a little.
Click to expand...

Well, there goes any notion that white people are more intelligent. This guy thinks, "if it didn't happen to me, it doesn't happen". A southern-fried cracker liberal .... oops! scuse me!!................ (barf puke blaaah puke)
 
LogicalReason said:
I would just like to say that I am against affirmative action as it is now. I believe that the intent of it was good but the way it is constructed is flawed at the core. The goal of our society is and should be to be completely color blind.

Now I have to agree that many whites do have more opportunities but that has nothing directly to do with the fact that they are white. It has to do with the fact that many were born middle or upper class and not poor. They had chances that were denied many less fortunate people. Just as the disadvantages that many minorities face are due to the fact that they were born poor. However many whites are poor and many minorities are middle or upper class. To assume that because a minority is a minority they need help in being an educated member of society is ridiculous and insulting.

If two equally qualified people are seeking a job, the one that is a minority should not get that job because he is a minority. Paint it as trying to establish equality or fix old wrongs... it is racism! You are saying that because someone is not white they need that little extra to get the same job. While racism sadly still exists in our society keep in mind that this is not 1870 or 1950... we have come a long way in getting rid of racism.

Side note:
However I believe affirmative action could be employed to help those that grew up with disadvantages economically and/or geographically.. poor inner city. (Just not on the basis of race.. come on people.)
Click to expand...


Good post, welcome to Debate Politics!:2wave:
 
Side note:
However I believe affirmative action could be employed to help those that grew up with disadvantages economically and/or geographically.. poor inner city. (Just not on the basis of race.. come on people.)
Click to expand...

I was born VERY poor, and I am against all "affirmative action" - all of it is immoral, irrational, counterproductive, divisive, and unconstitutional.
 
lheard said:
How Many Of You Against Affirmative Action Have Ever Been Denied A Job Because Of It? When You Answer That Let's Talk.
Click to expand...


Which time? The first time was in 81. Construction experience, welder, and knew my way around all the tools of the trade. Applied at a major company, and lost the job. Why? Was the guy that beat me out for it more qualified? Hardly. He had a skill as a burger flipper at Burger King. I was told flat out that I was infinitely more qualified, but the company was trying to fill it's legally mandated quota of minorities.
This is just one occurance. I've seen others as well. Affirmitive action is merely a name for reverse discrimination.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
You right wingers are something else. You have all the money and power and you still complain. I am a white male, as such:

- I statistically get paid more than women or minorities in the same profession as I am.

- I statistically enjoy a higher standard of living than minorities and single women.

- I statistically enjoy better healthcare than minorities and I have a longer projected lifespan because of it.

- To top it off, a very disproportionate number of those who represent me are white males just like me. In fact the good old Republican Party who claims to have such a big tent, has not even put the money and resources behind one African American to get them elected to either House of Congress. Basically almost all Republicans look just like me and since they are the party in power, things could not look better for me and all my white male peers.

I grew up poor, and through hard work have done ok so far in life. My wife and I having good careers with good benefits and as such live good middle class lives. I like to attribute my success in life so far (I am not rich, I just have a job that I like doing that pays me decently) to hard work and constantly educating myself in technologies related to my career (I am a Systems Administrator), but still I have to admit a small part of my success probably has to do with me being a white male and all those advantages that go along with that. In fact, in the vast majority of companies I have worked for, the vast majority of the best jobs seemed to go to white males like myself, or the occasional white woman. My point in all this being is that if you’re a white male, you already have a leg up on any one else ion the road of life here in America and if your not succeeding it probably is much more your own fault than the fault of Affirmative Action which only purpose is to try to level that playing field even a little.
Click to expand...







I admire you for all of your honest candor, & note all the guilt that you carry around in spite of all the hard work that you said you did in order to find that certain degree of success.

Here, I will help you to deal with your guilt about being successful because YOU think its because you are white:

I think that you & your wife should donate ALL of your wealth to every black cause, ..sell your house in the suburbs & move into a predominatley black community, & take your kids out of their schools, & move them into inner city schools as well.

In this way you can feel good about leveling the playing field all over again, ..& you will be starting all over again from scratch, & there is always that "possibilty" that the jobs you & your wife left behind "might" be filled by black folks thus making you feel better about lifes inequalities.

And after you are continually savaged by the black crime that is outrageously high YOU can tell all the nice upstanding blacks how much you, & your family left behind & sacrificed for them because you feel guilty about being "white".

Somehow I do not think that they will give one crap because it has really not ever been about race but rather decency, honesty, & morality, ..something that the "affirmative action" liberals have made illegal with all the rest of the good things they hand out while blaming the entire 'white' race for inequality, & excusing all black crime as the result of socio/economic reasons. ;)
 
lheard said:
How Many Of You Against Affirmative Action Have Ever Been Denied A Job Because Of It? When You Answer That Let's Talk.
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with anything? I've never been raped, so does that mean that I can't speak out against it?
 
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