Adoption and abortion (1 Viewer)

[steen]

A recent discussion about prolife/prochoice and adoption and made me curious. Who adopt or foster ?

 

[aps]

I am prochoice. If my husband and I cannot have children, we will NOT adopt.

 

[Hornburger]

umm...well, I have done neither, seeing as how I'm a teenager lol. Who knows what I may do in the future...but there's a long way till I think about kids or anything.

Oh yeah, and I'm pro-life.

 

[jfuh]

umm...well, I have done neither, seeing as how I'm a teenager lol. Who knows what I may do in the future...but there's a long way till I think about kids or anything.

Oh yeah, and I'm pro-life.

Pro-choice, but hardly in a financial capacity to adopt. Will I adopt? Don't know really, and doubt I would either.

 

[FISHX]

Pro life and i foster crisis children when needed.

 

[debate_junkie]

A recent discussion about prolife/prochoice and adoption and made me curious. Who adopt or foster ?

Hmmm I was in foster care. I don't adopt, nor do I foster, BUT I do counsel women in crisis pregnancy, and by counsel I mean give them their alternatives.. ALL of their options to deal with the pregnancy.

As for my own choices.. I am pro-life... FOR ME. I am raising my daughters to formulate their own ideas, and to think on the subject, not simply believe as I do.

I placed a son for adoption at 18, because I... operative word being "I" believe firmly in taking responsibility for one's action. To have an abortion, to ME, would have been the easy way out. To raise him, when I could barely care for myself would have been a travesty for him. I felt the most responsible thing I could have done at the time was to place him for adoption, and I've not regretted the situation since day one. I have 2 daughters now, and they know about him, he about them. I speak to him and his adoptive parents on a regular basis (the advent of the open adoption.. no longer pits birthparents against adoptive parents... open relationships are encouraged)

I, personally, cannot bring myself to tell a complete stranger what they HAVE to do in a situation. I firmly believe in the end it is up to THEM to make the best decision possible for themselves, and their current situation. Having been through a crisis pregnancy, and continuing to work in that area (on a volunteer basis) the LAST thing a woman needs is for someone else to be in their face telling them what they HAVE to do, when a majority of them don't have a clue WHAT to do to begin with.

 

[Stace]

I am pro choice, but I have neither adopted nor fostered a child. However, I'm only 22, so who knows what I may do in the future? I was strongly considering at least fostering one of my nephews, as my sister in law is in no position to take care of her children and actually willingly turned them over to child services....one of her boys went with his father, the other was with my in-laws for awhile, but he was only an infant and they have my 6 year old sister in law to take care of, so he is now with a friend.....I wanted to take him, to keep him with family, but my husband was against the idea.

I have a strong desire to have my own biological children, but if that is impossible for my husband and me, we will look at adoption.

 

[vergiss]

I'm pro-choice, and have neither given birth nor adopted/fostered a child. Given that I'm only 17, that should be a tad obvious. :mrgreen: I'd certainly like to have children one day, and would rather adopt than spend unnecessary time, money and emotion on IVF. To me, it seems a tad selfish to undergo such procedures when there are kids in the developing world in need of a home.

If I got pregnant now (which is highly unlikely, as I'm on the Pill), I would abort. However, if I were a few years older, maturer and more settled, I would seriously considering adopting it out. Right now, I doubt my mental health would survive the ordeal, and I'm not willing to risk it.

I believe in letting people make the decision that is best for them, and supporting them no matter which decision they make.

 

[Caine]

Hmmm I was in foster care. I don't adopt, nor do I foster, BUT I do counsel women in crisis pregnancy, and by counsel I mean give them their alternatives.. ALL of their options to deal with the pregnancy.

As for my own choices.. I am pro-life... FOR ME. I am raising my daughters to formulate their own ideas, and to think on the subject, not simply believe as I do.

I placed a son for adoption at 18, because I... operative word being "I" believe firmly in taking responsibility for one's action. To have an abortion, to ME, would have been the easy way out. To raise him, when I could barely care for myself would have been a travesty for him. I felt the most responsible thing I could have done at the time was to place him for adoption, and I've not regretted the situation since day one. I have 2 daughters now, and they know about him, he about them. I speak to him and his adoptive parents on a regular basis (the advent of the open adoption.. no longer pits birthparents against adoptive parents... open relationships are encouraged)

I, personally, cannot bring myself to tell a complete stranger what they HAVE to do in a situation. I firmly believe in the end it is up to THEM to make the best decision possible for themselves, and their current situation. Having been through a crisis pregnancy, and continuing to work in that area (on a volunteer basis) the LAST thing a woman needs is for someone else to be in their face telling them what they HAVE to do, when a majority of them don't have a clue WHAT to do to begin with.

I agree with what this person said.
And I am curious as to why there are not more people out there who can say this for themselves.
Its nobody's job to tell another person what to do with thier body.

 

[ptsdkid]

I agree with what this person said.
And I am curious as to why there are not more people out there who can say this for themselves.
Its nobody's job to tell another person what to do with thier body.

What are you talking about? Nobody's job to tell another person what to do with their body? First, suicide is against the law. If caught in time--hopefully the person would get the proper psychiatric help so as to continue with life.
Life itself seems not to matter much to people like you that have such careless and 'matter-of-fact attitudes about it. If you look at abortion as being the murder of another--then society has all the reason in the world to step in and stop this senseless slaughter.
Suppose you knew a woman was in her ninth month of pregnancy and she was shooting heroin into her veins. Would you (being the caring person you are) intervene with the appropriate medical assistance and or doctors to help this woman save her baby. Perhaps you would opt to let the woman take the easy way out by her getting an abortion. And you say it's nobody's business to tell another or to take action against a woman that is in dire straights? Get with the program here. You probably enjoyed watching them pull the tubes from Terry Schivo's veins, yet you probably were one of those people holding vigils for the life of that quadruple murderer Tookie Williams. Go figure! Your latest mantra is "save the murderers, kill the innocent"!

 

[Stace]

What are you talking about? Nobody's job to tell another person what to do with their body? First, suicide is against the law. If caught in time--hopefully the person would get the proper psychiatric help so as to continue with life.
Life itself seems not to matter much to people like you that have such careless and 'matter-of-fact attitudes about it. If you look at abortion as being the murder of another--then society has all the reason in the world to step in and stop this senseless slaughter.
Suppose you knew a woman was in her ninth month of pregnancy and she was shooting heroin into her veins. Would you (being the caring person you are) intervene with the appropriate medical assistance and or doctors to help this woman save her baby. Perhaps you would opt to let the woman take the easy way out by her getting an abortion. And you say it's nobody's business to tell another or to take action against a woman that is in dire straights? Get with the program here. You probably enjoyed watching them pull the tubes from Terry Schivo's veins, yet you probably were one of those people holding vigils for the life of that quadruple murderer Tookie Williams. Go figure! Your latest mantra is "save the murderers, kill the innocent"!

It's not illegal to kill yourself, so......where did that idea come from?

I'm not even going to bother answering the rest of your post, since you are directing it at a specific person......other than to say that abortion isn't murder if the fetus isn't developed enough to be considered a "person" in the usual sense of the word. Check out some of the other threads, there's extensive discussion on that very subject.

 

[Caine]

What are you talking about?

Im talking about the fact that nobody has the right to FORCE someone else to have a baby

Nobody's job to tell another person what to do with their body?

They are ENCOURAGED to give advice to others, not FORCE someone to do something.

First, suicide is against the law. If caught in time--hopefully the person would get the proper psychiatric help so as to continue with life.

This argument has nothing to do with the issue of abortion. It only proves that you are incapable of staying on topic.

Life itself seems not to matter much to people like you that have such careless and 'matter-of-fact attitudes about it. If you look at abortion as being the murder of another--then society has all the reason in the world to step in and stop this senseless slaughter.

I notice you said IF, there is a large group of people that DO NOT consider it murder. So the rest of your argument means nothing, it is just an emotional appeal to those who may feel guilty about supporting a woman's right to choose how her bodily resources are used.

Suppose you knew a woman was in her ninth month of pregnancy and she was shooting heroin into her veins. Would you (being the caring person you are) intervene with the appropriate medical assistance and or doctors to help this woman save her baby. Perhaps you would opt to let the woman take the easy way out by her getting an abortion. And you say it's nobody's business to tell another or to take action against a woman that is in dire straights?

Again, you can give someone ADVICE, you cannot FORCE someone to make either decision, it is up to her.

Get with the program here. You probably enjoyed watching them pull the tubes from Terry Schivo's veins, yet you probably were one of those people holding vigils for the life of that quadruple murderer Tookie Williams. Go figure! Your latest mantra is "save the murderers, kill the innocent"!

Your poorly educated assumptions in this last commentary mean nothing to the issue of abortion. Do not assume anything about me. Comments like these only discredit anything you say by making ignorant assumptions.

 

[debate_junkie]

What are you talking about? Nobody's job to tell another person what to do with their body? First, suicide is against the law. If caught in time--hopefully the person would get the proper psychiatric help so as to continue with life.
Life itself seems not to matter much to people like you that have such careless and 'matter-of-fact attitudes about it. If you look at abortion as being the murder of another--then society has all the reason in the world to step in and stop this senseless slaughter.
Suppose you knew a woman was in her ninth month of pregnancy and she was shooting heroin into her veins. Would you (being the caring person you are) intervene with the appropriate medical assistance and or doctors to help this woman save her baby. Perhaps you would opt to let the woman take the easy way out by her getting an abortion. And you say it's nobody's business to tell another or to take action against a woman that is in dire straights? Get with the program here. You probably enjoyed watching them pull the tubes from Terry Schivo's veins, yet you probably were one of those people holding vigils for the life of that quadruple murderer Tookie Williams. Go figure! Your latest mantra is "save the murderers, kill the innocent"!

Let's just deal with the text in bold, since the rest of your post seems to be ranting.

Based on one statement, you know for sure that ANYONE was happy to see Terry Schaivo die, and that they believe Stanley Williams deserved to live? ROFL... get with the program and check posts on the threads dealing with those topics before you make any rash assumptions (since we all know what happens when you ASSume)

From the information that any of us were privy too, it was NOT conclusive that Terry Schaivo had a living will that stated emphatically that she did not want life support measures of any kind. Therefore, no, I did not enjoy the feeding tube being pulled from her stomach. Her parents deserved more than just "Terry said", because we all know how words can be made up, when not backed by legal document.

As far as Stanley Williams (I don't know why anyone uses his nickname... it was under that nickname, his Crips name, that he murdered those 4 people)
the death penalty was too long in coming.

And, as far as anything else goes.. I can only offer my advice, my expertise. I do not have the power to make anyone do something they don't want to.. I'm not God! My hands, my words, my heart can only extend so far, and then I have to be at peace, and HOPE that in the end, the advice I've offered has not fallen on deaf ears.

So, "kid" when you start counseling women in the throws of a crisis pregnancy, and then demand they do as you say, come tell me how much that works for you.

 

[Hornburger]

It's not illegal to kill yourself, so......where did that idea come from?

Actually, it is.

 

[Caine]

Actually, it is.

Your missing the point, Suicide has ABSO-FRIGGIN'-LUTELY nothing to do with Abortion. Its ignorant to even bring it up in this debate.

 

[Hornburger]

Your missing the point, Suicide has ABSO-FRIGGIN'-LUTELY nothing to do with Abortion. Its ignorant to even bring it up in this debate.

Woa there. I was only trying to point out an incorrect statement. Calm down, buddy. Yell at ptsdkid and stace for talking about it too, why don't you?

Or if you just want to make people believe in lies...okaaaay

This thread has to do with who adopted who. What does that even have to do with abortion?

 

[Caine]

Woa there. I was only trying to point out an incorrect statement. Calm down, buddy. Yell at ptsdkid and stace for talking about it too, why don't you?

Or if you just want to make people believe in lies...okaaaay

This thread has to do with who adopted who. What does that even have to do with abortion?

Actually it has to do with abortion because Abortion is the main focus of the poll.

And because debate_junkie and ptsdkid brought it up.

 

[Hornburger]

Actually it has to do with abortion because Abortion is the main focus of the poll.

And because debate_junkie and ptsdkid brought it up.

Debate junkie did not bring up suicide, ptsdkid did. He was replying to YOU about how people can not do WHATEVER they want with their bodies. So go yell at him about bringing up suicide. Then stace replied and said how suicide isn't against the law, which it is. What I said is validating what ptskdkid said. Now, go yell at him if you want to, but all I'm doing is validating. And it seems to me laws dealing with what people do their bodies is very related to abortion. It figures you wouldn't want incorrect statements corrected, you like the distortions, the :spin:

What does who "brought it up" have anything to do with it? You are yelling at me for supposedly going "off-topic", and if I only followed the same path as the previous posters, it is only common sense that they were in the wrong too.

No, abortion really isn't really the main focus, adoption is the main focus. Steen wanted to know whether pro-choicers or pro-lifers adopt more, I assume, but that has little to do with adoption, unless if there is a hidden connection which I don't see like pro-choicers not adopting as much or something.

The question wasn't "What do you think about abortion?" It was "Who adopts or is a foster parent?" So if you want to be a jackass, then follow your own jackass rules. Only reply to the question that steen gave, and that is "Who adopts". Anything else is irrelevant.

 

[Stace]

Actually, it is.

Actually, I'd like to see you prosecute someone that's already dead.

 

[Stace]

No, abortion really isn't really the main focus, adoption is the main focus. Steen wanted to know whether pro-choicers or pro-lifers adopt more, I assume, but that has little to do with adoption, unless if there is a hidden connection which I don't see like pro-choicers not adopting as much or something.

Actually, it has to do with seeing whether those that are pro life are putting their money where their mouth is. They keep saying that women could just put the baby up for adoption.....but are they out there actually adopting those children?

 

[Hornburger]

Actually, it has to do with seeing whether those that are pro life are putting their money where their mouth is. They keep saying that women could just put the baby up for adoption.....but are they out there actually adopting those children?

Then why doesn't he just look at the statistics for how many children are adopted or need adopting or the waiting lists or something? Well, whatever lol.

 

[Caine]

Then why doesn't he just look at the statistics for how many children are adopted or need adopting or the waiting lists or something? Well, whatever lol.

Umm... that doesn't necessarily tell him whether they are pro-life or pro-choice.

Unless you are going to make the assumption that anyone who is willing to adopt must be pro-life, because you can't in all the might of the peanut of your head find a reason why someone who might find it wrong to FORCE other people to have unwanted children would adopt.

Pro-Life people have a pretty pathetic view of those who claim to be pro-choice. For some odd reason they think Pro-Choice means that anyone who agrees with that stance on the issue runs around demanding women abort thier children.

 

[Hornburger]

Umm... that doesn't necessarily tell him whether they are pro-life or pro-choice.

Unless you are going to make the assumption that anyone who is willing to adopt must be pro-life, because you can't in all the might of the peanut of your head find a reason why someone who might find it wrong to FORCE other people to have unwanted children would adopt.

I was asking a simple question and you have to come out and be a smartass about it.

Because I believe it is murder, that's why. I think you can't kill an innocent person just because the mother doesn't want to go through with a pregnancy. And, people WILL adopt the children. They WILL be wanted by those foster parents.

Pro-Life people have a pretty pathetic view of those who claim to be pro-choice. For some odd reason they think Pro-Choice means that anyone who agrees with that stance on the issue runs around demanding women abort thier children.

You're the one telling me this? The one who compares my pro-lifer head to a peanut is saying how their side is being misportrayed? How ironic.

I never thought of pro-choice people that way. I portray them as people who don't think the fetus is a human being. And so far, I've found that, on the whole, they are pretty hard to get along with lol and have a civil debate with.

 

[debate_junkie]

I was asking a simple question and you have to come out and be a smartass about it.

Because I believe it is murder, that's why. I think you can't kill an innocent person just because the mother doesn't want to go through with a pregnancy. And, people WILL adopt the children. They WILL be wanted by those foster parents.


You're the one telling me this? The one who compares my pro-lifer head to a peanut is saying how their side is being misportrayed? How ironic.

I never thought of pro-choice people that way. I portray them as people who don't think the fetus is a human being. And so far, I've found that, on the whole, they are pretty hard to get along with lol and have a civil debate with.

Having been in the foster care system, I know first hand there is no such thing as a "wanted" foster child, in most instances. It's an overworked, understaffed beaurocracy in which children are shuffeled around, never really having the stability they need and desire.

As far as adopting, most children wrangled within said system are left to rot because the most adoptions being performed in this country are of babies, in and out of our borders. People praise Angelina Jolie for her adoptions... she could have gotten children right here, in California as a matter of fact. However, MOST adoptive couples don't want to deal with the children who've been put through hell, and then cast aside like a used up quarter.

So yes, it is hard to imagine how someone could be so protective of a fetus in a womb, when everyday children are left to rot in the foster care system. Could you please explain that, Hornberger, and then perhaps I'll understand the justification in "foster kids who? Just don't kill the baby!"

 

[Stace]

For anyone that's interested......

http://naic.acf.hhs.gov/profess/admin/stats/index.cfm

Has a lot of good information pertaining to adoption statistics, though most of them are outdated by about 4 years. Of course, doesn't play the pro-choice/pro-life card, but it's still good info nonetheless.