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Administration to Support Anti-Israel Resolution at UN Next Week

NolaMan

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What is the point of this? Is the President so concerned about world opinion that he will put it above everything else?
 

Renae

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Sources: Obama Administration to Support Anti-Israel Resolution at UN Next Week

THE WEEKLY STANDARD has learned that senior Obama administration officials have been telling foreign governments that the administration intends to support an effort next week at the United Nations to set up an independent commission, under UN auspices, to investigate Israel's behavior in the Gaza flotilla incident. The White House has apparently shrugged off concerns from elsewhere in the U.S. government that a) this is an extraordinary singling out of Israel, since all kinds of much worse incidents happen around the world without spurring UN investigations; b) that the investigation will be one-sided, focusing entirely on Israeli behavior and not on Turkey or on Hamas; and c) that this sets a terrible precedent for outside investigations of incidents involving U.S. troops or intelligence operatives as we conduct our own war on terror.

While UN Ambassador Susan Rice is reported to have played an important role in pushing for U.S. support of a UN investigation, the decision is, one official stressed, of course the president's. The government of Israel has been consulting with the U.S. government on its own Israeli investigative panel, to be led by a retired supreme court justice, that would include respected international participants, including one from the U.S. But the Obama administration is reportedly saying that such a “kosher panel” is not good enough to satisfy the international community, or the Obama White House.
Sources: Obama Administration to Support Anti-Israel Resolution at UN Next Week | The Weekly Standard

More proof Israel has, at least until 2012, no friend in the USA. I hope they realize it's just a mistake, and don't hold our great mistake against us after Obama is removed from office.
 

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Frankly, I don't get what the big deal is. If Isreal boarded the ship in international waters, they were in the wrong. Sure the ship may have been carrying illegal good/material or even harboring suspected terrorist, but a sovereign nation still has no right to board a vessal outside their territorial waters - if that was, in fact, the case here.

Of course, what gets me is here it is we've stated we needed to stop being "big brother to the world" yet once again we're getting involved in another country's affairs. Granted, the White House/Obama Administration is getting alot of pressure to support Isreal, but how can you honestly support actions you suspect were illegal?

No matter who or what Isreal believed was aboard that ship, they still had no right to board it oustide their terrotorial waters.
 
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NolaMan

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Frankly, I don't get what the big deal is. If Isreal boarded the ship in international waters, they were in the wrong. Sure the ship may have been carrying illegal good/material or even harboring suspected terrorist, but a sovereign nation still has no right to board a vessal outside their territorial waters - if that was, in fact, the case here.
This is not an entirely accurate statement. Being in international waters does not mean that no laws apply any longer.

Of course, what gets me is here it is we've stated we needed to stop being "big brother to the world" yet once again we're getting involved in another country's affairs. Granted, the White House/Obama Administration is getting alot of pressure to support Isreal, but how can you honestly support actions you suspect were illegal?

No matter who or what Isreal believed was aboard that ship, they still had no right to board it oustide their terrotorial waters.
The United States has made no indication that they believe anything Israel did was "illegal." Now, without seeing the structure of the actual investigation that will come from the UN it is hard to determine, but on the surface, at this point, it seems just like an Israeli witch hunt.
 

tacomancer

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I wish we would just stay the hell out of it. First, its none of our business, and second, neither Israel nor Palestine is innocent or in the right.
 

justabubba

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good move, Obama

if we are to regain our credibility, internationally, we cannot continue to defend the indefensible

israel, by its own actions, has pushed our government to this limit

if israel has done nothing in this incident for which it should be ashamed, then this report will reveal that
it will also reveal whether israel has acted in a way which deserves to be criticized

and in the end, like the Goldstone Report, it will be filed away and israel will continue to do what it always does, oppress Palestinians
only with each UN report the world will become more aware of israel's egregious actions
 

NolaMan

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good move, Obama

if we are to regain our credibility, internationally, we cannot continue to defend the indefensible

israel, by its own actions, has pushed our government to this limit

if israel has done nothing in this incident for which it should be ashamed, then this report will reveal that
it will also reveal whether israel has acted in a way which deserves to be criticized

and in the end, like the Goldstone Report, it will be filed away and israel will continue to do what it always does, oppress Palestinians
only with each UN report the world will become more aware of israel's egregious actions
There already was an investigation being conducted... what was wrong with that one? This whole idea that we need to restore "credibility" internationally is such a sham. Who in your mind have we lost credibility with exactly that needs to be restored?
 

pragmatic

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I wish we would just stay the hell out of it. First, its none of our business, and second, neither Israel nor Palestine is innocent or in the right.
An action like this would potentially have a lot of political ramifications for Obama. And it's all about politics. Just can't see where supporting a UN investigation of Israel has net political upside for the Administration.

Will be surprised if he decides in favor of this.....


.
 

justabubba

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There already was an investigation being conducted... what was wrong with that one? This whole idea that we need to restore "credibility" internationally is such a sham. Who in your mind have we lost credibility with exactly that needs to be restored?
the kiss-your-sister internal investigation by the israelis of the israeli actions?
if there is another pending investigation, then please identify/reference it
 

NolaMan

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the kiss-your-sister internal investigation by the israelis of the israeli actions?
if there is another pending investigation, then please identify/reference it
From the original post:
The government of Israel has been consulting with the U.S. government on its own Israeli investigative panel, to be led by a retired supreme court justice, that would include respected international participants, including one from the U.S
I don't think that qualifies exactly as a "kiss your sister" investigation by only Israelis.
 

justabubba

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From the original post:


I don't think that qualifies exactly as a "kiss your sister" investigation by only Israelis.
it's kiss-your-sister because the israelis control the investigation of their own actions
 

NolaMan

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it's kiss-your-sister because the israelis control the investigation of their own actions
With an international panel investigating though. What is the difference between that and the UN, outside of now you will bring the whole political issues between Israel and the Middle East into the whole mix, and most likely get even less of the truth?
 

Redress

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What is the point of this? Is the President so concerned about world opinion that he will put it above everything else?
Supporting an investigation is not being "anti-Israel".
 

NolaMan

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Supporting an investigation is not being "anti-Israel".
No, which is why we were already doing that outside on the UN. Supporting a UN sanctioned witch-hunt however is "anti-Israel."
 

Redress

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No, which is why we were already doing that outside on the UN. Supporting a UN sanctioned witch-hunt however is "anti-Israel."
According to some, any investigation of Israel's practices is a witch hunt. Personally, I trust the UN slightly more than Israel(which really is faint praise). This whole thing is not anti-Israel, that is just a smear towards any one who questions Israel.
 

donsutherland1

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If, in fact, this story is accurate, I believe it would be bad decision for the U.S. Israel has a strong, competent, and credible legal system. The U.S. should support transparency, but leave the investigation to Israel. Otherwise, the U.S. is establishing a bad precedent under which sovereign states are perceived to lack the ability to investigate issues that are internationally sensitive.

One could hardly envision the U.S., for example, supporting any UN resolution that would have called for an "independent commission under UN auspices" to, let's say, investigate the Abu Ghraib abuses, legal concerns related to the detentions at Guantanamo Bay, etc., much less complying with them. In general, if a country has a strong, competent, and credible legal system, the investigation should be left to the country. Extraordinary measures such as international investigations should be left strictly to the cases in which countries have deficient legal systems.
 

justabubba

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With an international panel investigating though. What is the difference between that and the UN, outside of now you will bring the whole political issues between Israel and the Middle East into the whole mix, and most likely get even less of the truth?
such a reasonable offer i will accept it
eliminate the israeli international panel and substitute the UN directed investigative panel
if israel actually has nothing to hide, why should it object?
 

Redress

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If, in fact, this story is accurate, I believe it would be bad decision for the U.S. Israel has a strong, competent, and credible legal system. The U.S. should support transparency, but leave the investigation to Israel. Otherwise, the U.S. is establishing a bad precedent under which sovereign states are perceived to lack the ability to investigate issues that are internationally sensitive.

One could hardly envision the U.S., for example, supporting any UN resolution that would have called for an "independent commission under UN auspices" to, let's say, investigate the Abu Ghraib abuses, legal concerns related to the detentions at Guantanamo Bay, etc., much less complying with them. In general, if a country has a strong, competent, and credible legal system, the investigation should be left to the country. Extraordinary measures such as international investigations should be left strictly to the cases in which countries have deficient legal systems.
The problem with this is that Israel has a bad reputation in the world, deserved or not. Any investigation done by Israel is going to be rejected out of hand by most. If the investigation is done by an organization outside of Israel, and concludes nothing wrong was done, then it has real meaning.
 

NolaMan

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such a reasonable offer i will accept it
eliminate the israeli international panel and substitute the UN directed investigative panel
if israel actually has nothing to hide, why should it object?
Sounds eerily similar to the whole outrage with Bush and the Patriot Act. Comments such as "Bush can wiretap our phones!" and "Well, if you are not a terrorist, you should not care." were the norm, but that would not make "tapping all of our phones right." I agree with donsutherland1 when he says "the U.S. is establishing a bad precedent under which sovereign states are perceived to lack the ability to investigate issues that are internationally sensitive."
 

digsbe

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The UN can't preform an unbiased look into the flotilla incident. That's like asking the taliban to look into a church bombing by another Muslim group. It's truly a shame if the administration supports this.
 

donsutherland1

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The problem with this is that Israel has a bad reputation in the world, deserved or not. Any investigation done by Israel is going to be rejected out of hand by most. If the investigation is done by an organization outside of Israel, and concludes nothing wrong was done, then it has real meaning.
Redress,

Most of the negative perceptions are the result of the policy preferences and sympathies of those who hold such views. Some are the result of less than effective Israeli public diplomacy. Some are the result of Israeli policy errors.

Unfortunately, on account of its past history, the UN cannot be expected to play a dispassionate and impartial role. Placing the investigation under UN auspices would be a disaster. The all but likely outcome would be a harsh verdict against Israel. Worse, the international nature of the investigation, particularly with American support, would confer a sense of "international legitimacy" on those findings.

A/HRC/RES/S-9/1 (January 12, 2009) is a representative example of the kind of bias Israel encounters in the UN. Notice how much of the text is devoted to condemning, criticizing, and incriminating Israel and how little (almost none, actually) is devoted to addressing the security needs of Israel's civilians.

In short, Israel cannot reasonably be expected to consent or cooperate with terms of such a resolution, even if the U.S. supports that resolution. In addition, if the U.S. supports such a resolution, and especially if a scenario plays out consistent with the A/HRC/RES/S-9/1, the Goldstone report (which, among other things, portrayed Hamas security officers as civilians when, under the Geneva Conventions they would not qualify as civilians), etc., the U.S. will have squandered its ability to play the role of a constructive mediator in trying to facilitate Middle East peace. Assuming that such peace is in the larger U.S. interest as I believe it is, the U.S. would have yielded to international pressure from some quarters only to further exacerbate tensions given the differences among the parties and ultimately compromised the far more valuable role it can play as a constructive faciltator of the peace process.
 

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Re: Sources: Obama Administration to Support Anti-Israel Resolution at UN Next Week

I support the commission. The flotilla was a major international incident and the only "trial" it has received has been in the court of media and public opinion. If Israel did no wrong then it has nothing to be afraid of. The incident happened in international waters so the UN is within its full right to call for an investigation. I'm glad, for once, the U.S. administration isn't vetoing something that could bring positive results and restore faith.
 

Redress

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Re: Sources: Obama Administration to Support Anti-Israel Resolution at UN Next Week

assuming Obi has not forced a Nuclear War on the World.
And assuming the sun does not go supernova before then, which is roughly as likely.
 
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