Actually, the Numbers Show That We Need More Immigration, Not Less

[sangha]

[h=1]Actually, the Numbers Show That We Need More Immigration, Not Less[/h]
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/opinion/trump-immigration-myth.html

...A good yardstick for whether a country is admitting too many or too few immigrants — beyond the political mood of the moment — is its economic needs. If America were admitting too many immigrants, the economy would have trouble absorbing them. In fact, the unemployment rateamong immigrants, including the 11 million undocumented, in 2016, when the economy was considered to be at full employment, was almost three-quarters of a point lower than that of natives. How can that be evidence of mass immigration?...

...Because immigration from Mexico dwindled after the Great Recession at the same time that Hispanic fertility rates dropped by a quarter as well. At the current rate that America is admitting immigrants, this means that the total work force will grow only 0.3 percent per year.

Unless American birthrates pick up suddenly and expand the work force — an unrealistic assumption given that the country just set a record for low fertility — or the productivity of its dwindling work force quickly doubled, only slightly less unrealistic, says Mr. Goldstone, the United States will be staring at real G.D.P. growth of less than 1.6 percent per year in less than a decade, all else remaining equal.

I agree that we need to increase immigration.

 

[Geoist]

Trump better call Sweden.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I agree that we need to increase immigration.

We just got told that 40% of the jobs are going to get rubbed out by tech.....if so we are not going to have a worker shortage.

Besides everyone has been saying for decades that the Japanese were going to collapse because they refuse to let in immigrants....this same argument as you are giving....but they have managed their aging society just fine.

 

[Crovax]

We just got told that 40% of the jobs are going to get rubbed out by tech.....if so we are not going to have a worker shortage.

Besides everyone has been saying for decades that the Japanese were going to collapse because they refuse to let in immigrants....this same argument as you are giving....but they have managed their aging society just fine.

Japan just started to go negative in population the last couple of years and are just now picking up steam. We won’t know the full effects until another decade or so possibly 2. It takes an entire generation to the effects of a negative fertility rate combined with no immigration. They hit negative replacement around 1980 but didn’t start actually losing population until 2015 and are still at least 10 years from dropping to 1980s level population

 

[sangha]

We just got told that 40% of the jobs are going to get rubbed out by tech.....if so we are not going to have a worker shortage.

Besides everyone has been saying for decades that the Japanese were going to collapse because they refuse to let in immigrants....this same argument as you are giving....but they have managed their aging society just fine.

 

[marke]

I agree that we need to increase immigration.

You may have a good point. Americans are murdering their own babies by the dump truck loads so who is going to make up the future working class who will be paying the humongous bills left the US government by high flying dope crazed politicians of yesteryear? Bring in young wiry immigrants from all over. From Mexico, from Honduras, from Yemen, from Iraq, from Iran, from Palestine, from Somalia, from Cuba, or from wherever.

 

[beefheart]

I agree that we need to increase immigration.

But...then we would have more brown people here, and you know that is the prime reason the nativists are all angry...

 

[joko104]

The Democratic Party's solution is to bring in the most uneducated, unskilled, impoverished and often bigoted, sexist and anti-secular people of all by the millions making the USA the world's dumping ground of the least desirable people of all.

 

[joko104]

You may have a good point. Americans are murdering their own babies by the dump truck loads so who is going to make up the future working class who will be paying the humongous bills left the US government by high flying dope crazed politicians of yesteryear? Bring in young wiry immigrants from all over. From Mexico, from Honduras, from Yemen, from Iraq, from Iran, from Palestine, from Somalia, from Cuba, or from wherever.

Most important apparently is absolutely allow no white immigrants because all white people are evil, right?

 

[truthatallcost]

Yet Japan manages to rank 3rd in GDP year after year, ahead of countries who've taken in millions of migrants. These countries include the UK, Germany, and France.
China, ranks #2, and also does not allow economic migrants to ever holds citizenship.

 

[sangha]

Yet Japan manages to rank 3rd in GDP year after year, ahead of countries who've taken in millions of migrants. These countries include the UK, Germany, and France.
China, ranks #2, and also does not allow economic migrants to ever holds citizenship.

If you want to be #3, you are free to do so.

I prefer being #1 so I reject your anti Americanism

 

[RobertU]

Japan just started to go negative in population the last couple of years and are just now picking up steam. We won’t know the full effects until another decade or so possibly 2. It takes an entire generation to the effects of a negative fertility rate combined with no immigration. They hit negative replacement around 1980 but didn’t start actually losing population until 2015 and are still at least 10 years from dropping to 1980s level population

Presumably, a country with fewer people will consume fewer resources and less energy. Why is that a bad thing?

 

[Crovax]

Presumably, a country with fewer people will consume fewer resources and less energy. Why is that a bad thing?

It’s not inherently bad, but our current system is set up where it needs a larger population of younger working people to support the elderly

 

[truthatallcost]

If you want to be #3, you are free to do so.

China is perched to claim the #1 slot, and has been rumored to actually hold the top spot for several years. I guess alerting Americans to that fact might motivate them to rethink the idea that immigrants are the answer to economic issues.

I prefer being #1 so I reject your anti Americanism

Haha, do you also reject previous ideals of Americanism, such as the Naturalization Act of 1790, which was passed by the same Congress who enacted the Bill of Rights, including members who had participated in the Constitutional Convention? Perhaps our founders can be deemed anti-American by those today who know better than they did.

 

[VanceMack]

Legal immigration is awesome.

 

[truthatallcost]

It’s not inherently bad, but our current system is set up where it needs a larger population of younger working people to support the elderly

Yet retired people are frequently being forced from retirement, into doing menial work just to have money to survive. Ireland's government is currently selling the myth to its people that says immigration is essential to caring for an aging population. This is always a smokescreen.

 

[sangha]

China is perched to claim the #1 slot, and has been rumored to actually hold the top spot for several years. I guess alerting Americans to that fact might motivate them to rethink the idea that immigrants are the answer to economic issues.




Haha, do you also reject previous ideals of Americanism, such as the Naturalization Act of 1790, which was passed by the same Congress who enacted the Bill of Rights, including members who had participated in the Constitutional Convention? Perhaps our founders can be deemed anti-American by those today who know better than they did.

The nation was built on immigration by immigrants and their descendants. If your anti-American values causes you to suffer here, you can move to China and celebrate their supremacy with the Chinese people who will never accept you as one of them

Good luck with that

 

[Fledermaus]

I agree that we need to increase immigration.

Legal immigration is acceptable.

 

[truthatallcost]

The nation was built on immigration by immigrants and their descendants. If your anti-American values causes you to suffer here, you can move to China and celebrate their supremacy with the Chinese people who will never accept you as one of them

Good luck with that

You ignored my post entirely. 'Either luv America, or git out!' sounds more like something those you detest would say.

 

[sangha]

You ignored my post entirely. 'Either luv America, or git out!' sounds more like something those you detest would say.

Then it sounds like we have something in common

 

[truthatallcost]

Presumably, a country with fewer people will consume fewer resources and less energy. Why is that a bad thing?

Because fewer people = less demand for real estate = lower prices for real estate. The international banks own huge amounts of American real estate, and real estate debt, which is why they sponsor the diversity gospel. Those who hold the most influence over society view immigration as a source of

1. more consumers, thus higher prices +
2. more workers, thus lower wages

 

[truthatallcost]

Then it sounds like we have something in common

You never proved the basis of your OP sangha. The American economy does not 'need more immigration'.

 

[Masterhawk]

Yet Japan manages to rank 3rd in GDP year after year, ahead of countries who've taken in millions of migrants. These countries include the UK, Germany, and France.
China, ranks #2, and also does not allow economic migrants to ever holds citizenship.

You do realize that China has a population of over 1 billion right? And the country in first place (the US) has a population of just over 300 million. My point is that just looking at raw GDP can be misleading.

The UK, Germany, and France have lower GDPs than China primarily because they each have less than 1/10 as many people as China, but they each have a higher GDP per capita. When adjusted for population, China is pretty much in the middle.

 

[truthatallcost]

You do realize that China has a population of over 1 billion right? And the country in first place (the US) has a population of just over 300 million. My point is that just looking at raw GDP can be misleading.

The UK, Germany, and France have lower GDPs than China primarily because they each have less than 1/10 as many people as China, but they each have a higher GDP per capita. When adjusted for population, China is pretty much in the middle.

So where are we headed, as a country? Is our per capita GDP going to grow or shrink with the addition of more migrants? Factor in the coming automation age when you consider the proposition, if you will.

 

[Masterhawk]

So where are we headed, as a country? Is our per capita GDP going to grow or shrink with the addition of more migrants? Factor in the coming automation age when you consider the proposition, if you will.

There is evidence to suggest that immigrants benefit the economy. Low skilled immigration takes the jobs at the bottom for less money, driving down the price of goods. High skilled immigrants provide the US with the skills it needs.

A common economy fallacy that people fall for, regarding immigration and automation is the lump of labor fallacy (the idea that jobs getting filled up means more unemployment). It is considered a fallacy because of the economics problem: resources are limited but desires are unlimited; this second caveat pretty much guarantees that there will always be work needed to be done. This is why the industrial revolution didn't lead to mass unemployment and it's also why the new automatic revolution won't likewise lead to mass unemployment.