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ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal[W:53]

Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

If you can't figure that out then I would question your parenting skills. But something tells me you could manage just fine.

I have two kids and I have no problem explaining the law and rights to them. I even have no problem explaining to them the laws I disagree with. There is nothing wrong with you explaining the law, that people have rights, and then explaining why you personally disagree with the government's position.

No one has a right to use the bathroom of their choice. I'm sorry, but if my children ask me about the law I will make this point very clear to them. The only thing I will say about it is that the law doesn't care about their opinion and their concerns won't be respected. The only people the law cares about is boys that want to play pretend, not real girls that might be uncomfortable changing around a boy they have known since they were five.

As for explaining the governments position, no, I will not do that. If the government wants to explain their side of the story, let them, but I will challenge their crap if I ever hear it come out of my child's mouth.
 
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Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

Why shouldn't the government explain their asinine stances on issues to children? Why is it my job to explain to my children that they have to accept the governments stupid positions?

Why is it the government's job to force parents into this situation?

I smell a solution, an agenda ridden and belabored one at that, in search of a problem.
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

Who said anything about allowing their crap to go unchallenged? If the state suggests an idea to children that is completely full of it the parents should correct their children when they parrot it.

Translation: "if my children present an idea that I disagree with, I will shove MY agenda down their throats." As a parent, that is certainly your right to do so.
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

No one has a right to use the bathroom of their choice. I'm sorry, but if my children ask me about the law I will make this point very clear to them.

Actually, if the law says that anyone has the right to use the bathroom of their choice, you will be lying to your children. You are certainly allowed to do that, but it will be what you are doing.

The only thing I will say about it is that the law doesn't care about their opinion and their concerns won't be respected. The only people the law cares about is boys that want to play pretend, not real girls that might be uncomfortable changing around a boy they have known since they were five.

How do you know that your children will have the same opinion/concerns as you?

As for explaining the governments position, no, I will not do that. If the government wants to explain their side of the story, let them, but I will challenge their crap if I ever hear it come out of my child's mouth.

Wait. You said before that you send your children to private school so they don't have to hear the government's side of the story... and if it gets presented, you'll home school. As a parent, you should be completely capable of presenting your opinion and teaching your children what is, in your opinion, is accurate. What is your fear of them hearing differing viewpoints and then doing just that?
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

Translation: "if my children present an idea that I disagree with, I will shove MY agenda down their throats." As a parent, that is certainly your right to do so.

If they present an idea that I disagree with, yes, I will tell them exactly why I do.
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

Actually, if the law says that anyone has the right to use the bathroom of their choice, you will be lying to your children. You are certainly allowed to do that, but it will be what you are doing.

Unless of course I disagree with your premise that the law determines rights. :shrug:

How do you know that your children will have the same opinion/concerns as you?

They have the right to be wrong.

Wait. You said before that you send your children to private school so they don't have to hear the government's side of the story... and if it gets presented, you'll home school. As a parent, you should be completely capable of presenting your opinion and teaching your children what is, in your opinion, is accurate. What is your fear of them hearing differing viewpoints and then doing just that?

Not the problem. Being taught view points that are wrong by a trusted body of educators is not acceptable and not something I will tolerate.
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

If they present an idea that I disagree with, yes, I will tell them exactly why I do.

And it is then up to them to discuss this, or is it their charge to agree with what you say without question?
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

:lol: I guess that goes to show you that not giving a **** about anyone but a small minority might not be the best position to take on an issue.

Follow the money.

In a statement, she said that the ACLU has become “a special interest organization that promotes not all, but certain progressive rights.”

The “hierarchy of rights” the ACLU chooses to defend or ignore, she wrote, is “based on who is funding the organization’s lobbying activities.” She did not elaborate further.
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

Unless of course I disagree with your premise that the law determines rights. :shrug:

Which is irrelevant. If the law says that anyone has the right to use the bathroom of their choice, that's the reality of the situation. Your philosophical opinion matters not in the context of what happens.


They have the right to be wrong.

Right and wrong are subjective.

Not the problem. Being taught view points that are wrong by a trusted body of educators is not acceptable and not something I will tolerate.

Again whether viewpoints are right or wrong are subjective. Your opinion is your opinion and it's value has no value greater than that other than to you. So, I ask again, what is your fear of then hearing different viewpoints and you then "correcting" them?
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

Which is irrelevant. If the law says that anyone has the right to use the bathroom of their choice, that's the reality of the situation. Your philosophical opinion matters not in the context of what happens.

Government declarations can't be supported by the declaration itself. The idea that you have a right to use this public bathroom or that bathroom like somehow the opinion of fellow property owners is irrelevant is absolutely absurd.


Right and wrong are subjective.

Ummm...sometimes, but not always.

Again whether viewpoints are right or wrong are subjective. Your opinion is your opinion and it's value has no value greater than that other than to you. So, I ask again, what is your fear of then hearing different viewpoints and you then "correcting" them?

If I was to state that the boy they have known since kindergarten is still a boy there is nothing factually incorrect about my statement. If I was to state that there is no biological reason to accept him as a girl I would again be making no factually incorrect statements.
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

Not 100% accurate, but close:



Seems like her decision to resign was not only because of her personal experience, but because of her disagreement with the ACLU's overall position on this:



One issue I have with her is this statement:



Too bad. You're the parent. Unless you want the state to answer those questions for your children, it is YOUR job to figure out how to do so.

She has a point, though, doesn't she that going out of your way to cater in every possible way to one group, it will likely end up affecting the "rights" of another group. Some of the trans advocates I've read want to do away with gender designated bathrooms or at least make it where you couldn't do much as question why a dude is in the women's room or a girls locker room. I don't understand how that makes logical sense and telling people it doesn't matter if they're bothered by it just doesn't seem like a good way to build bridges.

I know it's not popular or PC to say, but I think the feelings and comfort of the majority should matter to some degree.
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

Government declarations can't be supported by the declaration itself. The idea that you have a right to use this public bathroom or that bathroom like somehow the opinion of fellow property owners is irrelevant is absolutely absurd.

No, government declarations certainly can be supported by rule of law. Now... watch Henrin's head explode... property rights are subject to these laws.

Ummm...sometimes, but not always.

From a moral standpoint? Always. Based on the way you are discussing it? Mostly, and definitely in this context.

If I was to state that the boy they have known since kindergarten is still a boy there is nothing factually incorrect about my statement. If I was to state that there is no biological reason to accept him as a girl I would again be making no factually incorrect statements.

If you are talking from a DNA standpoint, I agree. So, if your children came home with some information about transsexuality that you disagree with, the above is what would say to them, correct? If that is true, that's fine, and I'm not sure why you'd have an issue with doing so. It has nothing to do with "not tolerating". It has to do with being a parent. You can give your children whatever tools you want, Henrin. My thought would be that it would be a good idea to prepare them for a world that has a variety of opinions and viewpoints so they can understand entire concepts, but that is certainly up to you. But as a parent, I don't see how you could be afraid of your children hearing different viewpoints and not impressing upon them, "that's not what we believe".
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

She has a point, though, doesn't she that going out of your way to cater in every possible way to one group, it will likely end up affecting the "rights" of another group. Some of the trans advocates I've read want to do away with gender designated bathrooms or at least make it where you couldn't do much as question why a dude is in the women's room or a girls locker room. I don't understand how that makes logical sense and telling people it doesn't matter if they're bothered by it just doesn't seem like a good way to build bridges.

I know it's not popular or PC to say, but I think the feelings and comfort of the majority should matter to some degree.

My issue really is with her comment as a parent. I have gone on record as saying that all this "bathroom neutral" crap is just crap and I do not ascribe to it. What we had 6 months ago was fine and worked well. You had men's rooms and women's rooms. Transsexuals used the bathroom where they best fit and we had pretty much NO issues. Idiot conservatives started this crap, and our idiot President continued it.
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

No, government declarations certainly can be supported by rule of law. Now... watch Henrin's head explode... property rights are subject to these laws.

No, that is explaining something with itself. That is basically saying something is because it is. You might as say the god in the bible exists because the bible says so. It doesn't explain the reasoning or why it has any validity in fact. Oh and btw, saying one owner of the property has more rights than the other owners of the property is not sound reasoning.

From a moral standpoint? Always. Based on the way you are discussing it? Mostly, and definitely in this context.

You addressed the comment in a general sense, so all you're doing now is changing the focus of the argument.

If you are talking from a DNA standpoint, I agree.

They fail in more ways than just their DNA, so no.
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

No, that is explaining something with itself. That is basically saying something is because it is. You might as say the god in the bible exists because the bible says so. It doesn't explain the reasoning or why it has any validity in fact. Oh and btw, saying one owner of the property has more rights than other the owners of the property is not sound reasoning.

The owner of a property is subject to the laws of the jurisdiction of where they reside. Those laws are created, indirectly, through those people themselves, through voting. Don't like a law, change who's in charge.

You addressed the comment in a general sense, so all you're doing now is changing the focus of the argument.

Not at all. Your response was general, so I responded in kind.

They fail in more ways than just their DNA, so no.

And they succeed in quite a few ways, too. If you go beyond the DNA argument, I can tell you what's going to happen. You'll present your stuff, I'll present mine. You'll make some absolute statement, I'll demonstrate that the issue is subjective at that point. You'll get all huffy, and I'll point that out. Do you REALLY want to do that for the 4000th time?
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

The owner of a property is subject to the laws of the jurisdiction of where they reside. Those laws are created, indirectly, through those people themselves, through voting. Don't like a law, change who's in charge.

You're simply saying the law is the law, which is a pretty useless argument really.


Not at all. Your response was general, so I responded in kind.

So why did you change focus? lol.

And they succeed in quite a few ways, too. If you go beyond the DNA argument, I can tell you what's going to happen. You'll present your stuff, I'll present mine. You'll make some absolute statement, I'll demonstrate that the issue is subjective at that point. You'll get all huffy, and I'll point that out. Do you REALLY want to do that for the 4000th time?

Biological fact is not subjective. :shrug: Outside of developing female features due to hormonal influence(which is a pre-existing biological function of the body and does not at all make them female when it responds to a certain hormonal balance), no they pretty much failed. No one that does SRS surgery states that it is just like the real thing. They can't factually state such a thing anyway since there is biological differences they can't make up by simply moving pre-existing things around.
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

The owner of a property is subject to the laws of the jurisdiction of where they reside. Those laws are created, indirectly, through those people themselves, through voting. Don't like a law, change who's in charge.



Not at all. Your response was general, so I responded in kind.



And they succeed in quite a few ways, too. If you go beyond the DNA argument, I can tell you what's going to happen. You'll present your stuff, I'll present mine. You'll make some absolute statement, I'll demonstrate that the issue is subjective at that point. You'll get all huffy, and I'll point that out. Do you REALLY want to do that for the 4000th time?

Btw, if you want to state that hormonal influence can cause someone to change their gender(which is an extremely stupid argument) then you would need to explain why men and women with hormonal imbalances that cause them to grow beards or boobs have not changed genders. I can't wait to hear your answer.
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

You're simply saying the law is the law, which is a pretty useless argument really.

Actually, I didn't.


So why did you change focus? lol.

Once, again, I didn't. YOU did.

Biological fact is not subjective. :shrug: Outside of developing female features due to hormonal influence(which is a pre-existing biological function of the body and does not at all make them female when it responds to a certain hormonal balance), no they pretty much failed. No one that does SRS surgery states that it is just like the real thing. They can't factually state such a thing anyway since there is biological differences they can't make up by simply moving pre-existing things around.

OK, so you want to discuss the brain-body inconsistency for the 4000th time. Tell me, so I can keep an eye on the time... how long until you start getting huffy and annoyed with not being able to prove me wrong?
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

Btw, if you want to state that hormonal influence can cause someone to change their gender(which is an extremely stupid argument) then you would need to explain why men and women with hormonal imbalances that cause them to grow beards or boobs have not changed genders. I can't wait to hear your answer.

I am quite adept at making you look bad with my own arguments. Using your poor arguments would be counter productive.
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

Actually, I didn't.




Once, again, I didn't. YOU did.



OK, so you want to discuss the brain-body inconsistency for the 4000th time. Tell me, so I can keep an eye on the time... how long until you start getting huffy and annoyed with not being able to prove me wrong?


That isn't even a real argument, you know. Even if the brain is female/male while the body is the opposite it doesn't at all make them the other sex when you introduce a hormonal imbalance and move around their junk.
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

That isn't even a real argument, you know. Even if the brain is female/male while the body is the opposite it doesn't at all make them the other sex when you introduce a hormonal imbalance and move around their junk.

If we are not considering DNA in the equation, gender then becomes more related to anatomy and body chemistry. Based on that, their gender is different. Using those determinants, not seeing that is using a subjective perception rather than an objective one.
 
Re: ACLU Director Quits After Daughters’ Bathroom Ordeal

If we are not considering DNA in the equation, gender then becomes more related to anatomy and body chemistry. Based on that, their gender is different. Using those determinants, not seeing that is using a subjective perception rather than an objective one.

Bullcrap. Again, you're wrong. Their DNA and development affected their anatomy in ways that can't easily be changed and haven't been changed. Furthermore, again, SRS surgery does not create an organ that operates and is structurally the same as the real thing. So even if I was to use only your reasoning for gender it would fall short of its goal.
 
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