Abramoff Money Went Solely To Republicans

[BWG]

I know you can't wait to lynch Delay but that is not the way we do it in the USA...

Sometimes the best things are worth waiting for. :rofl

 

[26 X World Champs]

I know you can't wait to lynch Delay but that is not the way we do it in the USA...

Perhaps you need to reread my post? I wrote:

Time will tell whose going to get indicted and then convicted. No use speculating at this point but from everything that's been printed it certainly appears to be a mostly Republican problem.

You either missed it or purposely tried to twist my words into something that I never wrote, which is it?

Do I think DeLay is a scumbag regardless if he's convicted or not? YES I DO! However I will not convict him without a trial, which I always write so your attempt to spin it into "lynch DeLay" is inappropriate. It's not like I'm calling him a convicted felon, or a convicted rapist, you know?

 

[26 X World Champs]

Mark down the time and the day....That is the first time I have ever agreed with you on anything...........

You see Navy ethics have nothing to do with party affiliation. I'm betting that politics aside almost everyone in this community would agree on most ethical issues.

Now there are a select few out here that are impossible for me to understand, you know the type? The ones who call for no entitlement programs, no Medicaid or Medicaire, no catastrophe relief, no rights for minorities, those types. I'm sure you've been reading along with all of us some of the outrageously cold and uncivilized and unethical stuff that's been posted recently about Gays, the poor people on the Gulf Coast, the public schools et al?

Americans are an ethical bunch overall, not perfect, but definitely a lot more right than wrong and politics have very little to do with ethics of the everyday American.

So you know what Navy? You and I probably agree on more things than we disagree on...it's just that the things we disagree on are what's fun to debate. How much fun would it be to debate only people who agree with you?

 

[scottyz]

Delay's problem in Texas has NOTHING to do with his potential problem with Abramoff, they are totally different.

Considering that Abramoff pleaded guilty to influence peddling (bribery) which included paying for swanky vacations to far flung destinations that included good old Tom Delay going to the South Pacific with him me thinks that Delay is in need of some Immodium.

Delay and Abramoff jetted off to Scotland a couple times during those swanky vacations. Delay has already been fingered as part of the core group that's in trouble.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Not long ago, President Bush made the statement that Jack Abramoff was an equal money dispenser to both the Republican and Democratic parties, a boldfaced lie which has now been exposed.

According to Federal records, between 2001 and 2004, Abramoff gave $127,000 to Republicans, and not a penny to Democrats. A few Democrats did receive a little money from some of the Indian tribes which were also paying Abramoff, but that is a far cry from the preposterous statement Bush made. What the Democrats did to get the relatively small contributions from the Indian tribes is another story in itself. However, only Republicans profited from the Jack Abramoff slush fund money.

Article is here.

I call bullshit:

Democrats Also Got Tribal Donations
Abramoff Issue's Fallout May Extend Beyond the GOP

By Jeffrey H. Birnbaum and Derek Willis
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, June 3, 2005; Page A01

Lobbyist Jack Abramoff and an associate famously collected $82 million in lobbying and public relations fees from six Indian tribes and devoted a lot of their time to trying to persuade Republican lawmakers to act on their clients' behalf.

But Abramoff didn't work just with Republicans. He oversaw a team of two dozen lobbyists at the law firm Greenberg Traurig that included many Democrats. Moreover, the campaign contributions that Abramoff directed from the tribes went to Democratic as well as Republican legislators.

Bipartisan Spread Many of the top beneficiaries of the campaign contributions that Jack Abramoff and his team of lobbyists directed from Indian tribes were Democratic legislators.

Among the biggest beneficiaries were Capitol Hill's most powerful Democrats, including Thomas A. Daschle (S.D.) and Harry M. Reid (Nev.), the top two Senate Democrats at the time, Richard A. Gephardt (Mo.), then-leader of the House Democrats, and the two lawmakers in charge of raising funds for their Democratic colleagues in both chambers, according to a Washington Post study. Reid succeeded Daschle as Democratic leader after Daschle lost his Senate seat last November.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158.html

 

[aps]

I call bullshit:

Democrats Also Got Tribal Donations
Abramoff Issue's Fallout May Extend Beyond the GOP

By Jeffrey H. Birnbaum and Derek Willis
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, June 3, 2005; Page A01

Lobbyist Jack Abramoff and an associate famously collected $82 million in lobbying and public relations fees from six Indian tribes and devoted a lot of their time to trying to persuade Republican lawmakers to act on their clients' behalf.

But Abramoff didn't work just with Republicans. He oversaw a team of two dozen lobbyists at the law firm Greenberg Traurig that included many Democrats. Moreover, the campaign contributions that Abramoff directed from the tribes went to Democratic as well as Republican legislators.

Bipartisan Spread Many of the top beneficiaries of the campaign contributions that Jack Abramoff and his team of lobbyists directed from Indian tribes were Democratic legislators.

Among the biggest beneficiaries were Capitol Hill's most powerful Democrats, including Thomas A. Daschle (S.D.) and Harry M. Reid (Nev.), the top two Senate Democrats at the time, Richard A. Gephardt (Mo.), then-leader of the House Democrats, and the two lawmakers in charge of raising funds for their Democratic colleagues in both chambers, according to a Washington Post study. Reid succeeded Daschle as Democratic leader after Daschle lost his Senate seat last November.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158.html

Hmmmm, the plot thickens. Well, if the dems have behaved inappropriately, then they should suffer the consequences.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I call bullshit:

Democrats Also Got Tribal Donations
Abramoff Issue's Fallout May Extend Beyond the GOP

By Jeffrey H. Birnbaum and Derek Willis
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, June 3, 2005; Page A01

Lobbyist Jack Abramoff and an associate famously collected $82 million in lobbying and public relations fees from six Indian tribes and devoted a lot of their time to trying to persuade Republican lawmakers to act on their clients' behalf.

But Abramoff didn't work just with Republicans. He oversaw a team of two dozen lobbyists at the law firm Greenberg Traurig that included many Democrats. Moreover, the campaign contributions that Abramoff directed from the tribes went to Democratic as well as Republican legislators.

Bipartisan Spread Many of the top beneficiaries of the campaign contributions that Jack Abramoff and his team of lobbyists directed from Indian tribes were Democratic legislators.

Among the biggest beneficiaries were Capitol Hill's most powerful Democrats, including Thomas A. Daschle (S.D.) and Harry M. Reid (Nev.), the top two Senate Democrats at the time, Richard A. Gephardt (Mo.), then-leader of the House Democrats, and the two lawmakers in charge of raising funds for their Democratic colleagues in both chambers, according to a Washington Post study. Reid succeeded Daschle as Democratic leader after Daschle lost his Senate seat last November.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158.html [/quote]

It’s not a question of who received money from Abramoff, but rather it is a question of whether those congressman told Abramoff that his money would buy their votes. So far, that one falls solely with Republicans. Of course, that makes sense as they are the party in power. No lobbyist simply gives to one party. However, Delay has been admonished in the past for selling votes. He is as corrupt as Johnson was. Even in my state of Kansas, he was involved in a scandal involving selling access to Westar Energy, and probably would have been indicted had the Attorney General not been a very, very, partisan Republican.

I hope that anyone whether they were a Democrat or Republican who sold votes gets either indicted or at the very least thrown out of office for this. Probably 90% of what is wrong with the government is crap like this, and a message has to be sent to these thugs that you can’t get away it.

 

[Stinger]

Re: Abramoff Money Went To Republicans & Democrats

I believe he thinks he can get away with anything. Prior to the present time, he has been successful. It's called arrogance. Don't forget how Nixon, Reagan, and Clinton all make rather strong statments regarding their innocence.

As qucikly as Earle's case is going up in smoke with his phoney claims of list and such there doesn't seem to be anything to get away with. Is it arrogance to declare your innocence of anything when you haven't been charged with anything spcifically criminal and no evidence has been presented that you did anything criminal?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I call bullshit:

Democrats Also Got Tribal Donations
Abramoff Issue's Fallout May Extend Beyond the GOP

By Jeffrey H. Birnbaum and Derek Willis
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, June 3, 2005; Page A01

Lobbyist Jack Abramoff and an associate famously collected $82 million in lobbying and public relations fees from six Indian tribes and devoted a lot of their time to trying to persuade Republican lawmakers to act on their clients' behalf.

But Abramoff didn't work just with Republicans. He oversaw a team of two dozen lobbyists at the law firm Greenberg Traurig that included many Democrats. Moreover, the campaign contributions that Abramoff directed from the tribes went to Democratic as well as Republican legislators.

Bipartisan Spread Many of the top beneficiaries of the campaign contributions that Jack Abramoff and his team of lobbyists directed from Indian tribes were Democratic legislators.

Among the biggest beneficiaries were Capitol Hill's most powerful Democrats, including Thomas A. Daschle (S.D.) and Harry M. Reid (Nev.), the top two Senate Democrats at the time, Richard A. Gephardt (Mo.), then-leader of the House Democrats, and the two lawmakers in charge of raising funds for their Democratic colleagues in both chambers, according to a Washington Post study. Reid succeeded Daschle as Democratic leader after Daschle lost his Senate seat last November.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158.html [/quote]

It’s not a question of who received money from Abramoff, but rather it is a question of whether those congressman told Abramoff that his money would buy their votes. So far, that one falls solely with Republicans. Of course, that makes sense as they are the party in power. No lobbyist simply gives to one party. However, Delay has been admonished in the past for selling votes. He is as corrupt as Johnson was. Even in my state of Kansas, he was involved in a scandal involving selling access to Westar Energy, and probably would have been indicted had the Attorney General not been a very, very, partisan Republican.

I hope that anyone whether they were a Democrat or Republican who sold votes gets either indicted or at the very least thrown out of office for this. Probably 90% of what is wrong with the government is crap like this, and a message has to be sent to these thugs that you can’t get away it.

It hasn't been proven that anyone sold votes Republican or Democrat you're basing this notion on your own perception.

 

[Stu Ghatze]

Not long ago, President Bush made the statement that Jack Abramoff was an equal money dispenser to both the Republican and Democratic parties, a boldfaced lie which has now been exposed.

According to Federal records, between 2001 and 2004, Abramoff gave $127,000 to Republicans, and not a penny to Democrats. A few Democrats did receive a little money from some of the Indian tribes which were also paying Abramoff, but that is a far cry from the preposterous statement Bush made. What the Democrats did to get the relatively small contributions from the Indian tribes is another story in itself. However, only Republicans profited from the Jack Abramoff slush fund money.

Article is here.

Huh huh, ....you mean you HOPE that Abramoff only gave to republicans! Abramoff will be SINGING real soon,. & as a matter of fact Mr. Harry Reid HIMSELF may have found himself a nice contributing friend in Mr. Abramhoff who gave TO both party sides.

It was funny, if not hilarious when this was hinted to Dirty Harry himself some time ago, Who quipped quite slobberly all over himself when asked, & his reply, "I do not know Jack Abramoff & I never knowingly accepted anything from him", ..he might not have to...but he, or one of his aids sure had no problem accepting campaign money from him!

There are ALSO other dems too...:lol:

Cheer up, ..you'll feel even better when you find out that some of your democratic party heroes are as corrupt as some repunlicans are.

See...thats called a "level playing field", ..& isn't that part of the liberal belief system too?:smile:

 

[Stinger]

Considering that Abramoff pleaded guilty to influence peddling (bribery) which included paying for swanky vacations to far flung destinations that included good old Tom Delay going to the South Pacific with him me thinks that Delay is in need of some Immodium.

Well that's an outright lie.

"MIAMI (Reuters) - Lobbyist Jack Abramoff pleaded guilty on Wednesday to defrauding lenders in a Florida casino- ship deal ........
The Miami plea comes a day after Abramoff pleaded guilty to other fraud, conspiracy and tax evasion charges in Washington on Tuesday. "

Nothing about bribery or influence peddling or Tom Delay. Why would you post such a blantant falsehood?

Time will tell whose going to get indicted and then convicted. No use speculating at this point but from everything that's been printed it certainly appears to be a mostly Republican problem.

But certainly not exclusively Republican by a long shot.

"Among the biggest beneficiaries were Capitol Hill's most powerful Democrats, including Thomas A. Daschle (S.D.) and Harry M. Reid (Nev.), the top two Senate Democrats at the time, Richard A. Gephardt (Mo.), then-leader of the House Democrats, and the two lawmakers in charge of raising funds for their Democratic colleagues in both chambers, according to a Washington Post study. Reid succeeded Daschle as Democratic leader after Daschle lost his Senate seat last November......................

Rep. Patrick J. Kennedy (D-R.I.) ran second, with $128,000 in the same period. From 1999 to 2001, Kennedy chaired the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, which solicited campaign donations for House candidates.......................

Of the 18 largest recipients of tribe contributions directed by Abramoff's group, six, or one-third, were Democrats. These included Sen. Patty Murray (Wash.), who chaired the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee from 2001 to 2002, and Sen. Byron L. Dorgan (N.D.), a leader in Indian affairs legislation.................."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158.html

Maybe you should do a little fact checking before you misrepresent the issues.

 

[aps]

Re: Abramoff Money Went To Republicans & Democrats

As qucikly as Earle's case is going up in smoke with his phoney claims of list and such there doesn't seem to be anything to get away with. Is it arrogance to declare your innocence of anything when you haven't been charged with anything spcifically criminal and no evidence has been presented that you did anything criminal?

Are you talking about DeLay declaring his innocence regarding the money laundering case? If so, there has been evidence presented, as a grand jury voted to indict him. In order to indict someone, there has to be evidence that the person being indicted committed a wrongful act/transaction.

If Earle's claims were so phoney, why did the judge refuse to dismiss the money laundering issues? In making the determination to NOT dismiss these charges, the judge had an opportunity to review the facts and the law. So forgive me if I accord his assessment more probative value than your allegations of the claims being phoney.

 

[Stinger]

It is amazing the blatant lies that some are posting here concerning this. From claiming Abramoff plead to charges he did not to claiming the Democrats were not involved. And the facts are there for anyone with half a brain to read. These people better tone down thier glee cause if people do get charge with anything, which is still in doubt, Democrats will most likely also be involved.

 

[Stu Ghatze]

Well that's an outright lie.

"MIAMI (Reuters) - Lobbyist Jack Abramoff pleaded guilty on Wednesday to defrauding lenders in a Florida casino- ship deal ........
The Miami plea comes a day after Abramoff pleaded guilty to other fraud, conspiracy and tax evasion charges in Washington on Tuesday. "

Nothing about bribery or influence peddling or Tom Delay. Why would you post such a blantant falsehood?




But certainly not exclusively Republican by a long shot.

"Among the biggest beneficiaries were Capitol Hill's most powerful Democrats, including Thomas A. Daschle (S.D.) and Harry M. Reid (Nev.), the top two Senate Democrats at the time, Richard A. Gephardt (Mo.), then-leader of the House Democrats, and the two lawmakers in charge of raising funds for their Democratic colleagues in both chambers, according to a Washington Post study. Reid succeeded Daschle as Democratic leader after Daschle lost his Senate seat last November......................

Rep. Patrick J. Kennedy (D-R.I.) ran second, with $128,000 in the same period. From 1999 to 2001, Kennedy chaired the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, which solicited campaign donations for House candidates.......................

Of the 18 largest recipients of tribe contributions directed by Abramoff's group, six, or one-third, were Democrats. These included Sen. Patty Murray (Wash.), who chaired the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee from 2001 to 2002, and Sen. Byron L. Dorgan (N.D.), a leader in Indian affairs legislation.................."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158.html

Maybe you should do a little fact checking before you misrepresent the issues.

What a great post, ..& there WILL be a democratic party scandal over it too! I find this amusing because the dems have invested themselves so much in looking for scandal, ..if not actually inventing it to lay at the feet of republicans, ..& now it come home to roost in THEIR own hair! Huh huh, he he!:smile:


Just wait UNTIL Abramoff STARTS SINGING too......! Gonna be lots of sad democratic party faces, & denials....!

And probably just as disingenuine as; "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"!

 

[Stinger]

Hmmmm, the plot thickens. Well, if the dems have behaved inappropriately, then they should suffer the consequences.

<Well do I wonder how well Delay is sleeping these days. :lol:> How about the Dems?

or

<I wonder how DeLay is doing right now......> how about the Dems? Gephart, Dashle, et al?

 

[aps]

<Well do I wonder how well Delay is sleeping these days. :lol:> How about the Dems?

or

<I wonder how DeLay is doing right now......> how about the Dems? Gephart, Dashle, et al?

Stinger, why does my intense dislike of DeLay bother you so much? I have said in another thread that I don't really care who else goes down over this--as long as DeLay goes down. If you look up "scumbag" in the dictionary, there is a picture of him. I'm sorry--I just can't stand the guy, and I want what goes around to come around. I'd be lying if I said otherwise.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

It hasn't been proven that anyone sold votes Republican or Democrat you're basing this notion on your own perception.

Oh come on, Delay sells votes and access all the time. We had a huge scandal here in Kansas involving Westar energy, its former CEO David Wittig was convicted in it. When they were looking over the energy companies political dealings, they asked David Wittig why they had contributed large sums of money to House races in states that Westar had no dealings in what so ever. David Wittig responded that Delay told him to get out his checkbook if he wanted a "seat at the table" in any energy legislation. If our Attorney General had been anything less than a very far right wing Republican, Delay probably would have been indicted over it.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2003/may/17/westar_raises_campaignfinance/

You guys have a pretty **** poor defense on this one. It seems to me that your entire defense is “well some Democrats got some money too”. Who cares, it certainly does not make what the Republicans are accused of doing look any better. I am the first to say, if there are any Democrats involved in this corruption, then throw the bums out right along with the Republicans involved in it.

I want good government. You cannot have good government with a bunch of thugs in congress selling votes and access. That is almost everything that is wrong with the government. By God I don’t care if you are a Republican or a Democrat, if you sell votes and access, you ought to see some prison time. It’s really the highest form of treason if you think about it. These guys are putting personal greed and a lust for power over the interests of their country and the people they are supposed to represent.

 

[Stinger]

Abramoff and his cronies are sleaze. But from what I've read so far the sleaze is with his clients. As Charles Krauthammer said on Fox yesterday, if you are going to charge a congressman for taking campaign contributions for consitutients who want him to vote a certain way on an important issue then you'll have to lock up everyone on the hill, that's what lobbyist do.

 

[Navy Pride]

Sometimes the best things are worth waiting for. :rofl

Yeah but at least let him be tried by a jury of his peers before you lynch him.....

 

[Stinger]

Stinger, why does my intense dislike of DeLay bother you so much?

Bothers me? Who said it botheres me? It does seem an obession with you and I just wonder if your outrage is selective or not.

 

[Navy Pride]

You see Navy ethics have nothing to do with party affiliation. I'm betting that politics aside almost everyone in this community would agree on most ethical issues.

Now there are a select few out here that are impossible for me to understand, you know the type? The ones who call for no entitlement programs, no Medicaid or Medicaire, no catastrophe relief, no rights for minorities, those types. I'm sure you've been reading along with all of us some of the outrageously cold and uncivilized and unethical stuff that's been posted recently about Gays, the poor people on the Gulf Coast, the public schools et al?

Americans are an ethical bunch overall, not perfect, but definitely a lot more right than wrong and politics have very little to do with ethics of the everyday American.

So you know what Navy? You and I probably agree on more things than we disagree on...it's just that the things we disagree on are what's fun to debate. How much fun would it be to debate only people who agree with you?

After reading your posts for the last couple of months I doubt very seriously if there is anything else we agree on..............

As far as entitlement programs they all need to be reformed.......They are loaded with graft and corruption and have been getting worse.......Churches and social service organizations can handle a lot of the entitlement programs......It is the governments repsonsobility to protect you in defense of your country, not to spoon feed you everything from cradle to grave........

When will you liberals ever learn this?

 

[Pacridge]

Abramoff and his cronies are sleaze. But from what I've read so far the sleaze is with his clients. As Charles Krauthammer said on Fox yesterday, if you are going to charge a congressman for taking campaign contributions for consitutients who want him to vote a certain way on an important issue then you'll have to lock up everyone on the hill, that's what lobbyist do.

And this sounds like a bad idea?

 

[oldreliable67]

Re: Abramoff Money Went To Daschle, Reid, other Dems

Party lines are no deterrent to corruption. From the WP,

But Abramoff didn't work just with Republicans. He oversaw a team of two dozen lobbyists at the law firm Greenberg Traurig that included many Democrats. Moreover, the campaign contributions that Abramoff directed from the tribes went to Democratic as well as Republican legislators.

Among the biggest beneficiaries were Capitol Hill's most powerful Democrats, including Thomas A. Daschle (S.D.) and Harry M. Reid (Nev.), the top two Senate Democrats at the time, Richard A. Gephardt (Mo.), then-leader of the House Democrats, and the two lawmakers in charge of raising funds for their Democratic colleagues in both chambers, according to a Washington Post study. Reid succeeded Daschle as Democratic leader after Daschle lost his Senate seat last November.

 

[aps]

Bothers me? Who said it botheres me? It does seem an obession with you and I just wonder if your outrage is selective or not.

I am presuming it bothers you--otherwise you wouldn't have taken the time to cut and paste statements I made in two, different posts. My outrage is selective in how it relates to DeLay.

However, in how it relates to other republicans potentionally involved, my outrage is significantly lessened and applies equally to them and to the dems.

 

[26 X World Champs]

It hasn't been proven that anyone sold votes Republican or Democrat you're basing this notion on your own perception.

It might be time to take your blinders off and get real! Do you think that the government would plea bargain with Abramoff if he didn't have significant crap to throw onto the table? GET REAL!

Regardless of party affiliation, anyone who broke the law should get nailed. If Dems are included they get the cell next to Tom Delay. If it turns out that 20 Republicans are jailed and 2 Democrats then I think that would be an indictment of the system AND Republicans more so than Democrats.

However, the mere fact that Republicans are in power should make it obvious even to those of you so blinded by party loyalty that bribes are made to the people in power for they are the decision makers. Since the Republicans are the party in power it is obvious that there will be many more Elephants going to jail than Donkeys.