About the re-unification of countries, past, present, and future

[Rumpel]

About the re-unification of countries, past, present, and future

 

[Rumpel]

About Südtirol:

>>>>> https://debatepolitics.com/threads/should-south-tyrol-re-join-austria.455831/

 

[Gatsby]

I think countries should be reunited if both parts want to be reunited.

 

[Rumpel]

I think countries should be reunited if both parts want to be reunited.

Then click for it ....

Or don't you know any of the countries in the list?

 

[Gatsby]

Then click for it ....

Or don't you know any of the countries in the list?

Not sure why the hostility was necessary. But OK then.

 

[Tender Branson]

The first 4 definitely.

SK+NK is only possible if NK changes to a democracy and even then it would take a massive effort to re-integrate this totalitarian state and its people. Maybe 2 or 3 generations. As we have seen (and see) with Germany and East Germany, East Germany is still quite reactionary and poorer than the western part, after 30 years.

Tyrol cannot be its own country anymore. Those days of Middle Age to 30-Years War to pre-Napoleon mini countries in Europe are over.

Yemen is tricky, because a large share there consists of Shia Houthis, who are not comfortable at all living next to Sunni Yemenites.

 

[Rumpel]

Tyrol cannot be its own country anymore. Those days of Middle Age to 30-Years War to pre-Napoleon mini countries in Europe are over.

I meant it like this:

Re-unification as a Bundesland within Austria.

 

[Rumpel]

Should Gibraltar re-join Spain?

 

[JANFU]

Should Gibraltar re-join Spain?

Not according to the people of Gibraltar

 

[Rumpel]

Should the Veltlin (Val Tellina) re-join Switzerland?

 

[Rumpel]

Should Berwick upon Tweed re-join Scotland?

 

[Rumpel]

On the other hand:
In the case of the German state of Baden-Württemberg I am in favour of a separation to Baden and Württemberg on their own again.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

About the re-unification of countries, past, present, and future

Not being a resident of any (although eligible for citizenship in at least one) of those countries, I am in no position to take sides.

 

[Logophile]

Should Gibraltar re-join Spain?

No. Thanks!!

 

[Waddy]

why is it so many people favor self-determination for everybody else but not the states in the US. Anybody oppose secession for Texas if Texas voters approve?

 

[Rumpel]

why is it so many people favor self-determination for everybody else but not the states in the US. Anybody oppose secession for Texas if Texas voters approve?

How strong is the feeling for independence of Texas at present?

 

[Evilroddy]

Uh oh! No offence meant, but when Germans are talking about reunification, that makes me very nervous and has done so since the days of Bismarck. "Landser ein volk, ein reich, ein führer!", has never been a good thing since the 1870's.

That said if the fully-informed populations and elites of two regions both want to reunite, if that reunification is democratically supported without coercion and if minority communities are protected by the Rule of Law post reunification, then who am I to say no to such a project.

On the other hand, forced reunifications like Mexico-Chiapas, Russia-Crimea, Russia-Georgia and China-Taiwan (PRC-ROC) are very bad ideas. National Destiny is a fire which burns very hot, is hard to contain and can lead to multination-wide arson by accident or by design.

Cheers and be wise.
Evilroddy.

 

[Rumpel]

Uh oh!

Would you rather prefer the Cold War again and the Berlin Wall and the Death Zone between East and West Germany?

 

[Rumpel]

Would you prefer this?

 

[Evilroddy]

Would you rather prefer the Cold War again and the Berlin Wall and the Death Zone between East and West Germany?

Rumpel:

No, that reunification is already done. But I am worried by other demands to grow the German State as well as Russian, Turkish, Israeli and Chinese expansionism.

If it's any consolation, I am also very suspicious of the breaking-up and balkanisation of existing states.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Rumpel]

since the 1870's.

In other words: For you the Germans have always been Nazis from 1870 to 2021 - and probably also before and afterwards - and for eternity?

 

[Evilroddy]

Would you prefer this?

Rumpel:

States around the globe from Hungary to America and from the State of Israel to Xinxiang (China) are building walls. Walls are an unpleasant and xenophobic reality in a world driven by nationalism and xenophobia or to contain captive populations. I am glad the Berlin Wall is gone but look to the frontiers of today's European states for the walls of our present time. What's old is new again.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Evilroddy]

In other words: For you the Germans have always been Nazis from 1870 to 2021 - and probably also before and afterwards - and for eternity?

Runpel:

No, not Nazis but ardent nationalists, focused on rebuilding the greater German state, yes. It's an unfortunate side-effect of that peculiar type of nationalism called "Prussian Nationalism", where all must sacrifice for the good of the greater state. It's no different than French Mercantilism and later Empire, Dutch Imperialism, Spanish Empire, Ottoman Imperialism, Austro-Hungarian Imperialism, Italian Unification and follow-on Imperialism, Russian Imperialism, British Empire, American Manifest Destiny, Japanese Imperialism, etc. They're all dangerous ideas deeply rooted in collective national psyches geared towards expansionism as a national and state project. That's the Human Condition. I accuse the German peoples of being human, nothing more.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Evilroddy]

Would you rather prefer the Cold War again and the Berlin Wall and the Death Zone between East and West Germany?

Rumpel:

The Second Cold War has been upon us since sometime between 2000 and 2014. It's too convenient a banner to let drop by all sides. Conflict breeds compliance and cooperation of the greatest number of people to the policies of their leaders. We are all conscripted into such national projects whether we like them or not. Like totalitarianism, democracy is managed from the top but with more finesse and deniability.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Chagos]

Uh oh! No offence meant, but when Germans are talking about reunification, that makes me very nervous and has done so since the days of Bismarck. "Landser ein volk, ein reich, ein führer!", has never been a good thing since the 1870's.

Like with François Mauriac; "I love Germany so much, I'm always happy that there are two of them"

Bismarck, seeing how you brought him up, fulfilled a German dream by re-instating what had historically been for centuries. The down-side of that having been that he forced German principalities into a greater Prussia that most didn't want. But "Deutschland" was nevertheless a price that most German speakers were prepared to pay, however much they grated their teeth.

Informed Germans don't use the "re-" prefix for the events of 1989-90 anyway, they speak of unification.

One also need differentiate between previous split-ups having occurred by the volition of the people concerned and having been imposed by outside powers.

That said if the fully-informed populations and elites of two regions both want to reunite, if that reunification is democratically supported without coercion and if minority communities are protected by the Rule of Law post reunification, then who am I to say no to such a project.

Och aye.

On the other hand, forced reunifications like Mexico-Chiapas, Russia-Crimea, Russia-Georgia and China-Taiwan (PRC-ROC) are very bad ideas. National Destiny is a fire which burns very hot, is hard to contain and can lead to multination-wide arson by accident or by design.

Which makes me return to Germany in view of the forced "Anschluss" of Austria in 1938, which supports your above assessment.

No matter how many Austrians supposedly supported it.