Abortion

[Stace]

Are you serious?! Killing an animal and killing a human are two completely different things... If you can't see the difference, then I don't know what to tell you...

Care to explain how? This is on you, pal. You started the debate, you think that abortion should be illegal, it is up to you to tell me why, not to say "If you can't see the difference, then I don't know what to tell you"....could it be you don't know what to tell me because you know I (and Kandahar, and others) have a point, and you're just too scared to admit to it because it hurts YOUR argument?

In regards to your questions... What about the body of the female baby that is being aborted? Why are you against protecting that females(or male) body?

No one said I was against it. But I'm more interested in a woman having a right to choose what to do concerning things that are happening to, and inside of, her body. She can go on to conceive another child if she so chooses. The human race isn't going to be wiped out due to abortion.

As for your other question... It affects my life because I think unborn children are human beings and I am against aborting them.

But if you don't know that woman, don't even know she's pregnant, and therefore, don't know she's planning an abortion, how does that affect you? Just saying that you're against abortion isn't an answer. It is in no way directly affecting your life, has no impact on your day to day functions and actions whatsoever. Care to try again?

 

[conserv.pat15]

Care to explain how? This is on you, pal. You started the debate, you think that abortion should be illegal, it is up to you to tell me why, not to say "If you can't see the difference, then I don't know what to tell you"....could it be you don't know what to tell me because you know I (and Kandahar, and others) have a point, and you're just too scared to admit to it because it hurts YOUR argument?



No one said I was against it. But I'm more interested in a woman having a right to choose what to do concerning things that are happening to, and inside of, her body. She can go on to conceive another child if she so chooses. The human race isn't going to be wiped out due to abortion.



But if you don't know that woman, don't even know she's pregnant, and therefore, don't know she's planning an abortion, how does that affect you? Just saying that you're against abortion isn't an answer. It is in no way directly affecting your life, has no impact on your day to day functions and actions whatsoever. Care to try again?

Question... are you asking me to explain the difference between the value of a human fetus vs. the value of an animal fetus?

Also, I believe that the life of the child should come before the womans want to choose to abort it.

As to your question about how it affects my life/ the life of someone else.......... What about the father of the child. It may affect the father. There are many things that I am for or against that don't really affect me.

 

[Stace]

Question... are you asking me to explain the difference between the value of a human fetus vs. the value of an animal fetus?

Well, since you seem to think that brain function and a heartbeat magically become more important when attributed to a human rather than to an animal, yes, please explain this. Why is one more valuable than the other to you?

Also, I believe that the life of the child should come before the womans want to choose to abort it.

Well, that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but I place more value on someone that is already living and breathing and has made some sort of impact on this world.

As to your question about how it affects my life/ the life of someone else.......... What about the father of the child. It may affect the father. There are many things that I am for or against that don't really affect me.

I didn't say anyone else. I said YOU. The only way it would possibly affect you would be if you were the father of the child. But then again, if you didn't know she was pregnant in the first place, I guess it wouldn't affect you too much after all, now, would it? Sorry sweetie, but in many cases of abortion, the father isn't around and that's why the woman's getting an abortion in the first place.

 

[earthworm]

Rights accrue at birth. A fetus is not born, and has no standing under the Constitution.

Even if one were to foolishly grant a fetus rights, it could not have rights that supersede the host.

Nobody has the right to life when it requires the body of an unwilling host to do so.

All male bovine fecal matter.

That people use reasoning of this strangeness is beyond me...
I do not see how the Constitution enters into this.
Have people no morals anymore ??
Is civilization now going backward ??
Sanctity of life now has no menaning...
A shame that due to a low moral caliber of todays people, abortion will have to continue until man advances forward...

Primarily, man must learn to respect woman..

 

[Vandeervecken]

It doesn't matter if they are not exclusive to humans. Those are still signs of life, proving that the fetus is living. Also, just because the baby needs help from it's mother to grow does not mean that it is not a life. A fetus is a growing and development stage of life, just as birth is a stage, childhood is a stage, adulthood is a stage, ect..

It most certainly matters that they are not exclusive to humans when you try and use them as proof of humanity.

Needing help, and needing to reside in the body of are different things.

Which one? You have poseted many.

 

[Vandeervecken]

You liberals don't make sense... stop trying to compare the value of a human fetus vs. an animal fetus. Also, Kandahar, your analogy is poor at best.

LOL. SO I am a "liberal," now. When in doubt call names. Though it is mostly right wing nut-jobs that think liberal is a pejorative as you obviously do.

Her analogy eviscerated your claim. Sorry that angers you.

 

[Peralin]

!st amendment argument:

The belief that a fetus is the equal of a born human is a religious belief nothing more. To legislate this is to impose religion.

Here's the problem. Believe me, I'm all for the seperation of church and state. But this is NOT a "religious belief". It does not involve religion in any way. It is a belief about morality, what is right and what is wrong, it has nothing to do with God. Morality is deifferent from religion. The government should not choose a religion, but it should base its laws on what is right.

And the possibility that millions of human beings have been killed in the womb for no reason is definitely more important than seperating religion from government. Morality is needed everywhere, religion is not needed at all.

 

[Stace]

Here's the problem. Believe me, I'm all for the seperation of church and state. But this is NOT a "religious belief". It does not involve religion in any way. It is a belief about morality, what is right and what is wrong, it has nothing to do with God. Morality is deifferent from religion. The government should not choose a religion, but it should base its laws on what is right.

And the possibility that millions of human beings have been killed in the womb for no reason is definitely more important than seperating religion from government. Morality is needed everywhere, religion is not needed at all.

Most people derive their set of morals based upon the beliefs and guidance of their church. Some of us have a set of common sense morals that we develop on our own after witnessing various things throughout our lives. Point being, there is no one set of moral values; you cannot pander to set alone in this issue, and there is no way to make everyone happy. It's not the government's job to be a moral compass.

 

[conserv.pat15]

Well, since you seem to think that brain function and a heartbeat magically become more important when attributed to a human rather than to an animal, yes, please explain this. Why is one more valuable than the other to you?



Well, that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but I place more value on someone that is already living and breathing and has made some sort of impact on this world.



I didn't say anyone else. I said YOU. The only way it would possibly affect you would be if you were the father of the child. But then again, if you didn't know she was pregnant in the first place, I guess it wouldn't affect you too much after all, now, would it? Sorry sweetie, but in many cases of abortion, the father isn't around and that's why the woman's getting an abortion in the first place.

I can't believe I actually have to explain this, but.... a human fetus is more valuable than the fetus of an animal because IT IS A HUMAN BEING!!! Humans come before animanls. I don't know about you, but I place the life of a human above the life of an animal. I don't know how else to say it...

 

[Stace]

I can't believe I actually have to explain this, but.... a human fetus is more valuable than the fetus of an animal because IT IS A HUMAN BEING!!! Humans come before animanls. I don't know about you, but I place the life of a human above the life of an animal. I don't know how else to say it...

But why? What is it that makes humans more important to you than animals? I mean, we can eat animals, right? Unless you're a cannibal, you wouldn't eat a human. So in that regard, animals serve a higher purpose.

Simply saying a fetus is more valuable because it is a human fetus isn't explaining a damn thing. That's simply a matter of opinion. Try using sources and facts to back up your claim.

 

[Mixed View]

I can't believe I actually have to explain this, but.... a human fetus is more valuable than the fetus of an animal because IT IS A HUMAN BEING!!! Humans come before animanls. I don't know about you, but I place the life of a human above the life of an animal. I don't know how else to say it...

Listen peoples say that there is this situations and there are two paths out of it. One way is a quick painless death to a human baby and the other is to a animal baby. What are you going to choose? Well heck, you better pick the baby. The reason humans are ahead of animals is simply because humans can reason, have opinions, contribute to society in positive ways. How does an animal make a difference in the world. Can it cure Aids or solve poverty. NO! That is why you place a human above an animal.

 

[Mixed View]

It most certainly matters that they are not exclusive to humans when you try and use them as proof of humanity.

Needing help, and needing to reside in the body of are different things.



Which one? You have poseted many.

I believe you have forgotton one point that was posted earlier. If I am wrong and the fetus is not a human life and my belief that it is does not harm me, society, or anything, but say you are wrong and that a fetus is a human life, then guess what? You have then just supported the biggest act of genocide the world has ever seen. You have just become a mass murderer.

 

[Kandahar]

Listen peoples say that there is this situations and there are two paths out of it. One way is a quick painless death to a human baby and the other is to a animal baby. What are you going to choose? Well heck, you better pick the baby. The reason humans are ahead of animals is simply because humans can reason, have opinions, contribute to society in positive ways. How does an animal make a difference in the world. Can it cure Aids or solve poverty. NO! That is why you place a human above an animal.

Funny, that's the argument I was going to use to explain why abortion should be LEGAL. A fetus cannot reason, have opinions, contribute to society in positive ways, cure AIDS, or solve poverty.

 

[Stace]

I believe you have forgotton one point that was posted earlier. If I am wrong and the fetus is not a human life and my belief that it is does not harm me, society, or anything, but say you are wrong and that a fetus is a human life, then guess what? You have then just supported the biggest act of genocide the world has ever seen. You have just become a mass murderer.

Genocide? Really? Explain how abortion fits this definition:

gen·o·cide ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jn-sd)
n.
The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.

Abortions are not systematically planned to wipe out an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group. Care to try again?

 

[Kandahar]

I believe you have forgotton one point that was posted earlier. If I am wrong and the fetus is not a human life and my belief that it is does not harm me, society, or anything,

Wow, what a shocking display of callousness and arrogance. I'll make a deal with you: Since you don't think opposition to abortion harms anyone, how about if instead of aborting the babies, everyone in the world who doesn't want the baby gives it to you instead? You can raise them yourself, and by your own declaration you won't be harmed at all.

but say you are wrong and that a fetus is a human life, then guess what? You have then just supported the biggest act of genocide the world has ever seen. You have just become a mass murderer.

This implies that there is some kind of uncertainty about whether a few cells of goo are the moral equivalent to a human being.

 

[Stace]

I believe you have forgotton one point that was posted earlier. If I am wrong and the fetus is not a human life and my belief that it is does not harm me, society, or anything, but say you are wrong and that a fetus is a human life, then guess what? You have then just supported the biggest act of genocide the world has ever seen. You have just become a mass murderer.

Oh, and not to mention, how exactly would any of us on this board be a mass murderer? For one, abortion is legal, therefore, it cannot be murder, as murder is illegal; Two, to the best of my knowledge, none of us are doctors that perform abortions, therefore, we have no involvement in the procedure itself.

 

[conserv.pat15]

Wow, what a shocking display of callousness and arrogance. I'll make a deal with you: Since you don't think opposition to abortion harms anyone, how about if instead of aborting the babies, everyone in the world who doesn't want the baby gives it to you instead? You can raise them yourself, and by your own declaration you won't be harmed at all.

This already happens... it's called adoption. If it is such a burden for the mother to care for the child, why not put the child up for adoption? Not being able to care and support the child is a poor reason to abort a baby.

 

[Stace]

This already happens... it's called adoption. If it is such a burden for the mother to care for the child, why not put the child up for adoption? Not being able to care and support the child is a poor reason to abort a baby.

Because why should she have to care and support the fetus throughout a pregnancy, using not only her bodily resources, but monetary resources as well, when she doesn't want it? It's enslavement, pure and simple. Not to mention the fact that there are thousands of children already waiting to be adopted...why don't you do something to help the unwanted children that are already living and breathing first?

 

[Kandahar]

This already happens... it's called adoption. If it is such a burden for the mother to care for the child, why not put the child up for adoption? Not being able to care and support the child is a poor reason to abort a baby.

No, you're saying that opposition to abortion harms no one. So I'm asking why you personally aren't adopting unwanted babies left and right; not some hypothetical person who wants to adopt, you personally.

Furthermore, since it harms no one, would you be willing to carry the unwanted baby to term and give birth to it (if the technology existed to make that possible)?

 

[Vandeervecken]

Here's the problem. Believe me, I'm all for the seperation of church and state. But this is NOT a "religious belief". It does not involve religion in any way. It is a belief about morality, what is right and what is wrong, it has nothing to do with God. Morality is deifferent from religion. The government should not choose a religion, but it should base its laws on what is right.

And the possibility that millions of human beings have been killed in the womb for no reason is definitely more important than seperating religion from government. Morality is needed everywhere, religion is not needed at all.

The "morality" of our government is set forth in our Constitution. Our Constitution recognizes no rights prior to the birth of an individual. (See Amendment 14 Section 1) A fetus is not a human life under our Constitution, deal with it.

As to right and wrong, I bet we do not agree on what is each of those. (In fact I believe Christianity to be a nearly unmitigated evil.)

 

[Vandeervecken]

I can't believe I actually have to explain this, but.... a human fetus is more valuable than the fetus of an animal because IT IS A HUMAN BEING!!! Humans come before animanls. I don't know about you, but I place the life of a human above the life of an animal. I don't know how else to say it...

Depends on which human and which animal. I'd place my dog ahead of George W. Bush for instance if I could only save one in a disaster.

 

[Vandeervecken]

I believe you have forgotton one point that was posted earlier. If I am wrong and the fetus is not a human life and my belief that it is does not harm me, society, or anything, but say you are wrong and that a fetus is a human life, then guess what? You have then just supported the biggest act of genocide the world has ever seen. You have just become a mass murderer.

You need to go look up what genocide means. Genocide is the planned mass killing to exterminate a race or ethnic group. Abortion is not planned to do that in any way. As to murder, murder is the unlawful taking of a human beings life by another. Abortion is lawful, ergo not murder. A fetus is not yet a human being, ergo not murder.

Oy the nonsense that the religious try and pull to force their beliefs on others.

 

[Stace]

You need to go look up what genocide means. Genocide is the planned mass killing to exterminate a race or ethnic group. Abortion is not planned to do that in any way. As to murder, murder is the unlawful taking of a human beings life by another. Abortion is lawful, ergo not murder. A fetus is not yet a human being, ergo not murder.

Oy the nonsense that the religious try and pull to force their beliefs on others.

LOL....I posted nearly the exact same thing a bit futher up....(or down, depending on how you view threads :2razz: )

 

[Vandeervecken]

LOL....I posted nearly the exact same thing a bit futher up....(or down, depending on how you view threads :2razz: )

Great minds think alike. Though it hardly takes a great mind to expose the nonsense of the religious zealots. :rofl

 

[Stace]

Great minds think alike. Though it hardly takes a great mind to expose the nonsense of the religious zealots. :rofl

How right you are....and it's so nice that you and I can agree on certain issues :mrgreen: