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Abortion

RAMOSS

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Those are one and the same.

It's like being pro-murder and being pro-choice when it comes to murder. If you're there and you don't prevent it when you can, your "but-I'm-pro-choice" isn't gonna help you in the court.
Not at all. Pro-abortion means you think abortion is prefertable

Pro-choice means 'what other people choice is none of your damn business. I know people who died because of pregnancy.
 

RAMOSS

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It takes an even smaller mind to condone taking the life of an innocent child...
Isn't it lucky that at fetus isn't a child.
 

Valery

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Oh please.

You said this:


So how does one kill somebody in the "best way" "according to the commandments of god"?

Or to be more specific since you seem to like to play silly games:

When is it okay to kill somebody?
You're in religion section. I expect you to have some awareness when it come to religious scripture and laws. I'm not here to teach the basics to the obstinate rejecters. What a waste of time! Use Google or bing and your brain before you read something stupid and believe in it. Type 'Sharia law'.
 

digitusmedius

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Yes, I know that there's a dedicated abortion forum, but that doesn't mean that we can't attack it from a slightly different tack, i.e. ethics.
As usual, the topic was first brought up in another thread, but it seemed like it needed its own thread. Here's the history:



At which point I asked if he thought that atheists didn't have ethics.

His reply:


And I then asked him these questions:
No, I'm not pro-abortion. I don't know anyone who is pro-abortion.
And even if I was, would that mean that all atheists are pro-abortion?
And are there any self-described religious people that are pro-choice? And if they are, does that mean that they don't have any moral or ethical values? And who assigned you as the person to make that determination?

I then added a couple of more questions:
Is a zygote a future human and is it unethical to end the pregnancy at that point Also: What are the ethics of bringing an unwanted child into the world?

His reply:


So basically he is saying that anyone who is "pro-abortion" is not moral/ethical and that most atheists are pro-abortion, ergo atheists are not ethical.

Your thoughts?
Only that you went to much more trouble and extended much more tolerance for smallvoice (and small mind) the he/she/it was worth. Sanctimonious ranters like that need to be told to **** off (perhaps not exactly in those terms) and to take their massive "pro-life" hypocrisy and shove it up their asses.
 

digitusmedius

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The fact that some people have made something a "right", doesn't on any way make it wrong to condemn those who "use that right" — nor can anyone claim it did because people "condemn" others everyday regarding actions that are "their right".
That some people, with no moral authority whatever (other than their believing it so), think they have a right to condemn others is called sanctimony.
 

Valery

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safe and legal and as few as possible for those women who do not want to bring an unwanted child into the world.
This must be how the supporters of abortion eliminate any surfacing guilt in their minds over their immoral and unethical choices: 'I support abortion, but only for as few as possible and only for those who really really don't want a baby.'

@watsup is statistically most likely to respond with something about projection, so this is for everyone/anyone: how exactly does your supporting of abortion "only to as few as possible" and "only to those who really need it", affect the number of abortions done and/or whether those who don't "really" need it get an abortion or not? How are these two points even relevant to the discussion, except by showing that you indeed see there something wrong with an unnecessary abortion?
 

Elvira

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That some people, with no moral authority whatever (other than their believing it so), think they have a right to condemn others is called sanctimony.
This is the belief and skeptics forum...political forums are thataway...🔜🔜🔜
 

watsup

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This must be how the supporters of abortion eliminate any surfacing guilt in their minds over their immoral and unethical choices: 'I support abortion, but only for as few as possible and only for those who really really don't want a baby.'

@watsup is statistically most likely to respond with something about projection, so this is for everyone/anyone: how exactly does your supporting of abortion "only to as few as possible" and "only to those who really need it", affect the number of abortions done and/or whether those who don't "really" need it get an abortion or not? How are these two points even relevant to the discussion, except by showing that you indeed see there something wrong with an unnecessary abortion?

I don’t support abortion. I already said I want to see as few as possible and that access to birth control is key. It is a REALISTIC viewpoint as opposed to the extremist NO ABORTIONS PERIOD! fantasy that you hold.
 

iguanaman

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Of course it’s complete nonsense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The nonsense is the hatred of women that pervades all of you posts on this subject. You are not against abortion you are pro taking away a woman's right to bear children that are wanted. You want pregnancy to be a punishment and childbirths to be controlled by the State. Most likely because a woman would never willingly have your child.
 

Valery

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Not at all. Pro-abortion means you think abortion is prefertable

Pro-choice means 'what other people choice is none of your damn business. I know people who died because of pregnancy.
But you don't know anyone who died of abortion? How about ≈900 000 babies in the US last year? Was it +41 000 000 in the world? There's a chance you could have known some of those.

People die of cigarettes and alcohol all the time, but banning those or limiting their production, selling and buying would be an affront to your so-called liberty (from feeling shame).

No one is trying to prohibit abortion from those whose lives are actually at risk. Being healthy also helps in giving birth to healthy babies and staying alive. So those worried about pregnancy causing death should promote healthy life styles instead of promoting abortions.
 

vegas giants

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But you don't know anyone who died of abortion? How about ≈900 000 babies in the US last year? Was it +41 000 000 in the world? There's a chance you could have known some of those.

People die of cigarettes and alcohol all the time, but banning those or limiting their production, selling and buying would be an affront to your so-called liberty (from feeling shame).

No one is trying to prohibit abortion from those whose lives are actually at risk. Being healthy also helps in giving birth to healthy babies and staying alive. So those worried about pregnancy causing death should promote healthy life styles instead of promoting abortions.
Or just get an abortion
 

watsup

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But you don't know anyone who died of abortion? How about ≈900 000 babies in the US last year? Was it +41 000 000 in the world? There's a chance you could have known some of those.

People die of cigarettes and alcohol all the time, but banning those or limiting their production, selling and buying would be an affront to your so-called liberty (from feeling shame).

No one is trying to prohibit abortion from those whose lives are actually at risk. Being healthy also helps in giving birth to healthy babies and staying alive. So those worried about pregnancy causing death should promote healthy life styles instead of promoting abortions.
Or from those women who prefer not to bring an unwanted child into the world.
 

Valery

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I don’t support abortion. I already said I want to see as few as possible and that access to birth control is key. It is a REALISTIC viewpoint as opposed to the extremist NO ABORTIONS PERIOD! fantasy that you hold.
You're confusing me with someone else. Islam permits abortion due to serious risks to life/health.
 

Valery

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Obviously it would be a step forward if people stopped fornicating...
 

watsup

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You're confusing me with someone else. Islam permits abortion due to serious risks to life/health.
The Constitution of the United States allows abortions to women who don’t want to bring an unwanted child into the world.
 

Valery

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you are pro taking away a woman's right to bear children that are wanted
How childish. Bearing children isn't exactly a "right", it is a privilege, a gift. But for spoiled Americans it's something that they want ordered in advance, paid, packed, shipped and delivered to their door. If you get pregnant without intending to, it's your fault. If you're pregnant, it's your duty as a human being to carry the baby for 9 months, give birth to him/her and give him/her a good home.
 

vegas giants

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How childish. Bearing children isn't exactly a "right", it is a privilege, a gift. But for spoiled Americans it's something that they want ordered in advance, paid, packed, shipped and delivered to their door. If you get pregnant without intending to, it's your fault. If you're pregnant, it's your duty as a human being to carry the baby for 9 months, give birth to him/her and give him/her a good home.
Not in the US
 

iguanaman

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How childish. Bearing children isn't exactly a "right", it is a privilege, a gift. But for spoiled Americans it's something that they want ordered in advance, paid, packed, shipped and delivered to their door. If you get pregnant without intending to, it's your fault. If you're pregnant, it's your duty as a human being to carry the baby for 9 months, give birth to him/her and give him/her a good home.
Your "duty" is to only have children you want and can care for. There is no morality in doing anything else. People who want to punish women and take away the rights to their body will be damned to hell.
 

iguanaman

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Not in the US
Not anywhere really. Women will alway choose when they bear a child. The abortion rates are higher in countries where it is illegal. The point of making it illegal is to make women suffer more.
 
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