Abortion

[Valery]

the free will to force THEIR will, misusing God's Name, on others. And it's a sin and goes against God's Will.

Verse from the Bible, please?

 

[smallvoice]

That by your own standards, you have no ethics since you approve of abortion in some instances.
And also that you are the typical right-wing anti-abortion extremist who would ethically condemn the great majority of Americans who are pro-choice in regard to a Constitutionally protected right of women who decide that they don’t want to bring any wanted child into the world.
And, no, I am not “pro-abortion”. I am against abortion to the point that I want to see as few as possible, and it is you right-wingers who actually cause more abortion by constantly trying to remove funding from Planned Parenthood which provides more birth control to women of less economic means than any other organization, thus preventing potential abortions. The blood is on YOUR hands.

I’m not promoting killing anything, so no there is no “blood on my hands”. You are responsible for your decisions.


That still, small voice that says: He’s right!
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[watsup]

I’m not promoting killing anything, so no there is no “blood on my hands”. You are responsible for your decisions.


That still, small voice that says: He’s right!
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I am very proud of my decisions as previously listed to support the Constitutional undergirding of keeping the government out of the personal lives of women.

 

[Valery]

Then how can you believe in making laws to force His Word on man? He gave us the free will to choose to follow Him or not. It goes against God's Will then, to usurp His Authority and force His Word on man, using man's laws.

He chose not to force us to follow His Laws, granting us free will. So then how do you justify overriding His Will?

This has nothing to do with free will.

The words of Allah, may He be exalted (interpretation of the meaning): “There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path” [al-Baqrah 2:256] are not contrary to the command to fight the mushrikeen who turn people away from the religion of Allah, cause mischief on earth and spread kufr, shirk and corruption. Fighting them is one of the greatest deeds by means of which people prosper on earth and enjoy safety and stability, as Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone” [al-Anfaal 8:39].


Islam aims to achieve that which is in people’s interests and to protect them from that which is harmful to them.


The meaning of this verse is that the teachings of Islam are very clear and the proof and evidence of its soundness are so clear and definitive that there is no need for compulsion. Whoever comes to know the reality of Islam and is not stubborn or arrogant will enter Islam willingly. Rather the one who does not want to enter it is the one who is arrogant and stubborn, who does not accept Allah as his Lord or His Prophet as his messenger, and does not believe in the Book that was revealed to him. For that reason, those mushrikeen who adhere to their false religion and fight in support of their religion out of arrogance and seek to spread mischief and kufr on earth are to be fought.

Reconciling between the verses “There is no compulsion in religion” [al-Baqarah 2:256] and “and we shall drive them out from there in disgrace, and they will be abased” [an-Naml 27:37] - Islam Question & Answer

islamqa.info

 

[vegas giants]

it should be and it should be a lot more influential

Opinion noted

 

[Valery]

I am very proud of my decisions as previously listed to support the Constitutional undergirding of keeping the government out of the personal lives of women.

And yet, you're responsible for them.

Qur'an surah al-Anfal verse 48 "And [remember] when Satan made their deeds pleasing to them and said, "No one can overcome you today from among the people, and indeed, I am your protector." But when the two armies sighted each other, he turned on his heels and said, "Indeed, I am disassociated from you. Indeed, I see what you do not see; indeed I fear Allah . And Allah is severe in penalty.""

 

[vegas giants]

Yeah, the truth hurts. It merely shows, and quite clearly, that the vast majority of abortions are done for convenience. That minuscule percent that are driven by medical necessity lays the pro-abortion lie out in the open.
Do YOU have data that refutes it? It did come from the actual PP agency that keeps up with those tragic numbers.


That still, small voice that says: He’s right!
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Convenience is a perfect reason for an abortion

 

[gboisjo]

gboisjo said
The good news is abortions numbers continue to fall. The decline in abortions appears to be related to declines in births and pregnancies overall. Woman in the workplace are choosing to delay child birth with some choosing not to have children at. In 2020 more Caucasians are dying than being born.

Interesting. Can you please source the bold?

Also, if it's true, is there a reason that is a problem, regarding Caucasians?

Just google it, Latino's will be a majority in the not to distant future ..there breeding like rabbits. Its not a problem, its simply a fact that relates to lower abortion rates. Tougher laws are also impacting abortion rates. Morality doesn't appear to be a factor in the reduction.

 

[gboisjo]

Convenience is a perfect reason for an abortion

MORE BS!!

 

[weaver2]

MORE BS!!

How else would you describe an unwanted and unplanned pregnancy that would put your family in debt, possibly permanent poverty and cost 18 years of unwanted and unplanned restriction of work and income, family instability and chaos as anything else but inconvenient? The only alternative definition would be the word 'devastation'.

You would not allow a stranger come into your life and demand that you and your family follow, for 18 years, their religious beliefs, putting your family into emotional disarray, financial difficulty, and dissension.

 

[RAMOSS]

MORE BS!!

How so?

 

[smallvoice]

How else would you describe an unwanted and unplanned pregnancy that would put your family in debt, possibly permanent poverty and cost 18 years of unwanted and unplanned restriction of work and income, family instability and chaos as anything else but inconvenient? The only alternative definition would be the word 'devastation'.

You would not allow a stranger come into your life and demand that you and your family follow, for 18 years, their religious beliefs, putting your family into emotional disarray, financial difficulty, and dissension.

It maybe”inconvenient” but it is ENTIRELY of your doing. Personal Responsibility- look it up.


That still, small voice that says: He’s right!
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[vegas giants]

MORE BS!!

I accept your concession

 

[smallvoice]

I am very proud of my decisions as previously listed to support the Constitutional undergirding of keeping the government out of the personal lives of women.

Well. apparently you are only interested in keeping the government out of some of your personal life. I don’t hear you whining about paying taxes, controlling what drugs you can buy, or any of the MANY things that government “controls”. You only appear interested in maintaining your ability to decide if an inconvenient pregnancy (those that fall on the 98% side) should be terminated on your whim.


That still, small voice that says: He’s right!
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[vegas giants]

Well. apparently you are only interested in keeping the government out of some of your personal life. I don’t hear you whining about paying taxes, controlling what drugs you can buy, or any of the MANY things that government “controls”. You only appear interested in maintaining your ability to decide if an inconvenient pregnancy (those that fall on the 98% side) should be terminated on your whim.


That still, small voice that says: He’s right!
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Is it ok if the government controls your medical decisions?

 

[RAMOSS]

It maybe”inconvenient” but it is ENTIRELY of your doing. Personal Responsibility- look it up.


That still, small voice that says: He’s right!
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In some situations, having an abortion is Personal Responsiblity. Look it up

 

[smallvoice]

In some situations, having an abortion is Personal Responsiblity. Look it up

No, the ONLY personal responsibility is keeping her knees together at the appropriate time.


That still, small voice that says: He’s right!
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[weaver2]

MORE BS!!

10% of women that don't want to be pregnant are not using some form of birth control.
75% of women that get abortion are poor women living at or below the poverty line.(According to U.S. Census Bureau data, of the 38.1 million people living in poverty in 2018, 56 percent—or 21.4 million—were women.)
0% to 2% is the failure rate for the IUD, hormone implants, sterilization(tubes tied) for women these are extremely expensive and out of financial reach of most poor women
9% is the failure rate of The Pill. These cost about $20-50/ month. The cost is out of pocket for low wage workers who do not have insurance or Medicaid.
55% +/- of women rely on male contraceptives because they are the cheapest (condoms, withdrawal, rhythm)
18% to 25% is the failure rate of male birth control
0% of the poor can afford a lawyer that will fight a giant corporation.
100% of births to poor women are paid for by Medicaid
0% of abortions are paid for by any government program

 

[watsup]

No, the ONLY personal responsibility is keeping her knees together at the appropriate time.


That still, small voice that says: He’s right!
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Life is so easy for the right wingers who don’t acknowledge human frailty.

 

[watsup]

Well. apparently you are only interested in keeping the government out of some of your personal life. I don’t hear you whining about paying taxes, controlling what drugs you can buy, or any of the MANY things that government “controls”. You only appear interested in maintaining your ability to decide if an inconvenient pregnancy (those that fall on the 98% side) should be terminated on your whim.


That still, small voice that says: He’s right!
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It’s not my whim. It’s a very personal decision for the woman involved. Having the government intervene on behalf of religious zealots like yourself is totally inappropriate. I don’t know the women. Neither do you. Leave them alone. They don’t demand to intervene in your personal life. You shouldn’t demand to do so in theirs.

 

[weaver2]

10% of women that don't want to be pregnant are not using some form of birth control.
75% of women that get abortion are poor women living at or below the poverty line.(According to U.S. Census Bureau data, of the 38.1 million people living in poverty in 2018, 56 percent—or 21.4 million—were women.)
0% to 2% is the failure rate for the IUD, hormone implants, sterilization(tubes tied) for women these are extremely expensive and out of financial reach of most poor women
9% is the failure rate of The Pill. These cost about $20-50/ month. The cost is out of pocket for low wage workers who do not have insurance or Medicaid.
55% +/- of women rely on male contraceptives because they are the cheapest (condoms, withdrawal, rhythm)
18% to 25% is the failure rate of male birth control
0% of the poor can afford a lawyer that will fight a giant corporation.
100% of births to poor women are paid for by Medicaid
0% of abortions are paid for by any government program

If of the 38.1 million people living in poverty in 2018, 56 percent—or 21.4 million—were women, probably 50% were sexually active (women between the ages of 15 and 44). Rounded off for sake of doing the math that means 10,000,000 women have limited financial means to get the most effective birth control and limited access to clinics providing a cheaper contraceptive, usually The Pill. So 600,000 abortions for 10,000,000 poor women means that only 6% of poor women are being what conservative Christians want to call irresponsible about birth control.

Wanna compare that to another interesting statistic? 30% of all abortions are done for conservative Christian women who believe that abortion is morally wrong (but their abortion is justified because it would be inconvenient) and say truly, ugly things (they should've kept their knees closed) about other women who get abortions.

 

[Lursa]

Verse from the Bible, please?

This is from the Christian faith and Bible. I realize you are Muslim.

"God dignifies us with free will, the power to make decisions of our own rather than having God or fate predetermine what we do. Consider what the Bible teaches. God created humans in his image. (Genesis 1:26) Unlike animals, which act mainly on instinct, we resemble our Creator in our capacity to display such qualities as love and justice. And like our Creator, we have free will. "​

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/free-will-in-the-bible/

The link itself contains specific scriptures that support it.

 

[Lursa]

This has nothing to do with free will.

I'm not really interested. I answered your question.

Religion has no place on the legality or morality (except to an individual) of abortion.

I was just pointing out the hypocrisy and sins of the Christians who believe we should indeed incorporate their beliefs into secular American law, re: things like abortion, homosexuality, gay marriage, discrimination, women's rights, etc.

 

[Lursa]

Just google it, Latino's will be a majority in the not to distant future ..there breeding like rabbits. Its not a problem, its simply a fact that relates to lower abortion rates. Tougher laws are also impacting abortion rates. Morality doesn't appear to be a factor in the reduction.

View attachment 67297331

Ah, I thought that your statement was that more were dying due to abortion.

So then, what about my other question? Why does it matter? Why does it matter what color babies are being born?

 

[Lursa]

It maybe”inconvenient” but it is ENTIRELY of your doing. Personal Responsibility- look it up.


That still, small voice that says: He’s right!
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The FACT that choosing abortion can indeed be responsible has been posted for you many times. You just dont like it. That happens alot when people are so deeply assimilated into beliefs that they cant see facts and reality. Or are unwilling to admit they're wrong. IMO both of those applies to you.

But again, facts dont lie.