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Abortion

RedAkston

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Abortion is the fundamental, reproductive right to cease a process which leads to including a new member of one's own family. Men and women both have the right to abort a process which links one family to another in order to exchange biological resources, personal information and money for the purpose of reproduction. Men do not biologically abort when they prevent insemination, in the same way that women do not biologically abort when they prevent insemination. Insemination is a biological function that results from cooperative biological functions from consenting adults. Women are capable of biologically aborting a pregnancy. Men are not capable of aborting parentage, though it should be the case that both men and women are capable of voluntarily and autonomously choosing who to associate with on a familial basis

Reproduction is an issue which exists within the social context of family. When we don't stop a process that augments our families, we are not exercising abortion, however we are exercising reproduction. Reproduction and abortion are mutually exclusive social behaviors. One cannot both reproduce and abort. Passive abortion is not possible, and neither is passive reproduction. Since we are responsible for our own actions, we should be held accountable for the choices we make. So far as pregnancy is concerned, neither men or women should abdicate their parental duties following viability. Abdication of parental duties is ok without a family, when we are progeny but not procreative. Abdication of parental duties is not ok within a family, since that would be socially irresponsible and dishonest.

Because parental rights are a direct consequence of not aborting (i.e. reproducing), abortion is the absence of parental rights and might be compared to the dissolution of a wedding engagement between two adults.
 

Korimyr the Rat

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There are two main moral arguments for the right to abortion.

The first is that the right to abortion is fundamental to individual liberty. Every person has the natural right to their own body, to its processes and functions, and the right to decide to which purposes their bodies will be used. No woman may be obligated, morally or legally, to gestate an unborn child against her will as this is a violation of her right to bodily sovereignty. Anti-abortion advocates argue that the unborn child has a "right to life" starting with conception; this is impossible, because by biological necessity, the unborn child's life must be provided to it by a third party. Forcing the pregnant woman to provide this service is a form of involuntary servitude. Forcing a woman to endure the physiological changes induced in pregnancy, against her will, is a violation of her right to self-defense. Further, any supposed "right" that pro-lifers would like to extend to unborn child is by necessity one or more rights that must be denied to the mother. Even the merest right to not be slaughtered in the womb, as already mentioned, denies a woman her right to self-defense and her freedom from slavery. If the unborn child has a right not to be exposed to excessive risks, the mother loses for herself the right to take risks. If the unborn child has a right not to be exposed to chemicals that will harm it, the mother loses her right to medications that may be necessary for her continued good health or even her life.

On the level of simple individual liberty, denying the right to legal abortion or placing undue burdens on the access of that right are morally unconscionable.

The second argument derives from family values and the traditional prerogatives of parents. Family planning is the prerogative of the family; the mother has the right to decide to bear a child and the right to offer it to a man-- preferably her husband-- and the prospective father has the right to decide whether or not the offered child is welcome into his household. State regulations forcing unwanted parental responsibilities on unwilling parents is a violation of these natural prerogatives and a usurpation of the natural order; these irresponsible policies have led to an increase in births out of wedlock, and thus to child poverty, as they force women to bear children they cannot support and encourage women to get pregnant to coerce commitments from unwilling men. Just as the State uses the "health of the mother" to justify denying women the right to abort, the State uses the "welfare of children" to justify policies that harm children.

Fundamentally, the State has no legitimate interest and no moral authority to make reproductive decisions for its citizens. It is a grotesque overreach of the State's power and must be fought at all costs.
 

year2late

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It is a heath care decision between a woman and her doctor.

The value of the fetus is part of a belief system - not a scientific fact. I respect that someone believes a zygote is equal to a born baby - but really that is not a fact and an individual belief that should not be imposed on another.
 

LaughAtTheWorld

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I do support abortion but only under certain conditions:

1) Unconditional within the first few weeks.

Although I don't have a definite stance on the definition of personhood, I do believe that abortion should be allowed unconditionally within the first few weeks of pregnancy. If I recall correctly, most countries allow such abortion within the first 6~8 weeks and I think this is very reasonable.

2) Conditional afterwards

After the unconditional period, abortion should only be allowed in special cases such as pregnancy induced by rape or incest, when pregnancy threatens the mother's life, or in some other very special circumstances. I believe that these circumstances warrant the necessity in ending the life of what I would consider to be human being.

3) Contraceptives

Rather than surgical abortion, I would prefer that governments allow and encourage the use of contraceptives and birth control if not actively fund and distribute them. It makes much more sense both realistically and morally; it would be cheaper and less morally questionable in that it would prevent a birth rather than terminate it.

The reasons I hold this particular stance comes from a mixture of factors: belief in the freedom of a woman's body (which the above posters have articulated well enough that I don't think it needs repeating), the value of a baby's life (although there is a gray area as to when life starts), and practicality. This is not one of my main issues and I have never given it serious research or thought, but I do acknowledge that it is a serious one. Therefore I may very well be misinformed as I formulated my position of the scattered information I came across. I just thought it worthwhile to post because I believe I've never actually posted my thoughts on this particular topic.
 

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Abortion is the killing of a human child. In its common forms, it is the horrific abuse of the most vulnerable amongst us for the convenience, good, and financial profit of more powerful actors. On exceedingly rare occasions, it can be deemed the less awful of available options.

The public fight over abortion is a fight over competing rights - a woman's right to bodily autonomy v a child's right to life. Neither side should pretend that the right they are arguing to override does not exist, but instead put forth their arguments as to why that decision is justified (Example: as an adult citizen, I have the right to bodily autonomy. I don't have the right to use my bodily autonomy in ways that harms or endangers others. Ergo, my right to bodily autonomy does not override another's right to life.).

The legal fight over abortion is a fight over competing sovereignty - the people's right to determine how they are to be governed v a Constitution that enshrines individual rights against mere popular will v a Supreme Court willing to inject personal political preference into law. Who has the final authority over life and death decisions?

The historical reality of abortion has meant something of a generational war. Somewhere between 1/4th and 1/3rd of my generation was murdered by our parents before we even had a chance to learn to laugh. Moloch only dreamed of such heights. Because we are fewer in number, the Boomers face potential destitution in old age, as OASI/Medicare are pay-go. Our country is poorer, financially, spiritually, societally, and culturally, because of the loss of talent, the loss of innovation, the loss of gifts, the loss of love, inherent in the loss of so many. Even were it to be ended today, the tragedy of abortion would be with us for a generation or more.

This "Peculiar Institution" which we claim is necessary for our "way of life" is bloodier than slavery, more horrific than slavery, and one day, we will be remembered the way that we remember those who engaged in slavery. As monsters.
 

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Abortion is one of the most heinous crimes imaginable. It is the cold-blooded murder of an innocent baby. Direct abortion should be outlawed in all circumstances whatsoever, and barring the most extreme mitigating circumstances, anyone who participates in an abortion should be publicly beheaded.

Moreover, abortion is such a terrible evil, even the advocacy of it in the abstract should be outlawed, and punished by hard time.
 

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Only people who will be involved in the upbringing of said potential child should have any input on the topic RE that mother/child (which means: spouse / parents if pregnant teen is underage / etc).
 

azgreg

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To quote Bill Clinton: "Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare."
 

Hawkeye10

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Abortion is a wonderful tool to help manage this civilization. We should try to prevent it from becoming "birth control" (and hopefully we all understand what I mean by that) but we should use it broadly when the resulting human is either not wanted or would be a drag on the society. For instance this new mosquito virus I saw today is expected to result in humans who will for their entire lives need warehousing, at the current expected price of $10 million per life....a life I doubt they will enjoy much, nor will their loved ones. THis is nuts, do an abortion, save everyone the unnecessary misery. Anyone who brings one of these into the world is wrong in my books, they must operate by way of a Fruit Loop ideology.
 
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Coldwine

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It should be legal. Life began about four billion years ago and hasn't stopped yet; none of the 'scientific' arguments that life starts at conception hold water.

The government should do everything that it can to support a culture of life. Abortion should be seen as a last resort in every situation, and should a woman choose to have her baby society ought to be there to support her.

That said, I have nothing but respect for those who oppose abortion for religious reasons, and I understand why they feel so strongly about the issue.
 

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I'm pro-choice mostly for practical reasons, though I can easily understand the moral rights as well. Abortion is part of the natural order and it's something that will never be stopped. Even in the most draconian countries, women still abort. They just do it using alternative and unusually unsafe means. So all anti-abortion laws do is punish women, ultimately.

There's also a lot of cognitive dissonance in the anti-abortion movement that draws me into criticizing it. Most pro-lifers would make exceptions for medical reasons, or in the instances of rape and incest. It seems like abortion is often still OK as long as another moral imperative is stronger than the desire to preserve the "sanctity of life".

Most of the anti-choice laws are not based on medical science, but emotional hyperbole. As abortion is a medical procedure with pros and cons in terms of bodily consequences, I would much rather see medical professionals having the larger say in civil law, than people who are totally ignorant of the intimate details of the human body.

As for so-called "parental abortions" for men... I don't agree with them. If one or both parents don't foot the bill, then the rest of society does. People should be held responsible for the lives that they create. What I would like to see is greater reform of the court systems so that responsibilities and obligations are more impartially decided, because there is a clear bias against men. However, no matter what, the two people who created a child should be looked at first for child support. Children are the foundation of our society's future and their care should not be trifled with. Support is not the same as parenthood. There are lots of parents out there who are physically present to materially support their children, but they are not suitable parents. What matters is that the child has the basics. It's not ideal but we can't force people to be good parents in order to reproduce -- too bad though.

I realize there is a power disparity in regards to parenthood. A man may not want to be a parent but the woman is under no obligation to abort, and that's because abortion carries bodily risk. Some women are scarred for life and can't have anymore children. Rarely, some women die from abortions. The system should not be able to corner women into choosing between an abortion and living a life of single motherhood. Regardless if women get abortions or not, they are still forced to take responsibility. I support equalizing the responsibility of men in a similar fashion.

Bottom line... born children are important. Their needs trump everything else.
 

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Abortion is the fundamental, reproductive right

In your opinion, maybe. But abortion is not a fundamental right for purposes of constitutional law. By that I mean that when government actions affecting abortion are challenged, courts do not apply the very demanding "strict scrutiny" standard they apply where rights the Supreme Court recognizes as fundamental--e.g. the right to free speech--are involved. The Court stopped applying that strict standard in abortion cases in Planned Parenthood v. Casey twenty-four years ago.
 

matchlight

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Abortion is the killing of a human child. In its common forms, it is the horrific abuse of the most vulnerable amongst us for the convenience, good, and financial profit of more powerful actors. On exceedingly rare occasions, it can be deemed the less awful of available options.

The public fight over abortion is a fight over competing rights - a woman's right to bodily autonomy v a child's right to life. Neither side should pretend that the right they are arguing to override does not exist, but instead put forth their arguments as to why that decision is justified (Example: as an adult citizen, I have the right to bodily autonomy. I don't have the right to use my bodily autonomy in ways that harms or endangers others. Ergo, my right to bodily autonomy does not override another's right to life.).



The legal fight over abortion is a fight over competing sovereignty - the people's right to determine how they are to be governed v a Constitution that enshrines individual rights against mere popular will v a Supreme Court willing to inject personal political preference into law. Who has the final authority over life and death decisions?

The historical reality of abortion has meant something of a generational war. Somewhere between 1/4th and 1/3rd of my generation was murdered by our parents before we even had a chance to learn to laugh. Moloch only dreamed of such heights. Because we are fewer in number, the Boomers face potential destitution in old age, as OASI/Medicare are pay-go. Our country is poorer, financially, spiritually, societally, and culturally, because of the loss of talent, the loss of innovation, the loss of gifts, the loss of love, inherent in the loss of so many. Even were it to be ended today, the tragedy of abortion would be with us for a generation or more.

This "Peculiar Institution" which we claim is necessary for our "way of life" is bloodier than slavery, more horrific than slavery, and one day, we will be remembered the way that we remember those who engaged in slavery. As monsters.

Beautifully stated.
 

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This is a moral question, but it must be answered by the pregnant woman, not by anyone else. So it must remain a legal option, and the morality of it left to the individual.
 

Atheist 2020

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This is a moral question, but it must be answered by the pregnant woman, not by anyone else. So it must remain a legal option, and the morality of it left to the individual.

I support how China deals with abortion. The government should have the right to limit the number of children allowed. Socialism works better with healthy people
 

gfm7175

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Abortion is murder, and a horrible thing which should never happen outside of the very rare instance of the mother's life being threatened during the pregnancy process (because that's then a decision of the mother's life vs the child's life). There is a beneficial reason behind how God set up marriage for mankind. If people would wait to have sex until they got married and settled in first, and if people kept a strong parental unit of a man and a woman for their children, things would overall be very positive for society as a whole. I realize that not everyone likes this option, but there is a surefire way to not end up pregnant (unless one gets raped)... abstenance...
 
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joko104

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1. The core issue is whether a fetus is a human baby with the same personhood and rights as a born baby? My answer is no. A fetus has gained no knowledge or interaction with the outside world nor has become a member of our society, and likely is not self aware nor aware of life in any real sense. The fetus is not yet one of us nor within our perception of reality.

2. The government does not have jurisdiction until the fetus/baby is born under a fair reading of our Constitution and those who wrote it. All the philosophers of the signers to the Constitution and their own writes state that a person's inherent rights start at "birth," not conception. The Constitution provided "birth right citizenship," not conception citizenship." Although there were many strictly enforced moral rules Biblical or morally based at that time, abortion was not illegal. Therefore, even if immoral, the government has no jurisdiction over a fetus until it is born. Any act of government not stemming from constitutional authority is by definition an act of tyranny. Government may not self assign itself powers beyond what the Constitution grants it - even if there otherwise are good reasons to do so.

3. The question of ethics to the woman is if in her opinion the fetus insider her is "a baby," and she abortions, she then to her own values murdered her and the father's child. If to her mind the fetus is just a thing or "it," then to her values she has not committed an immoral act by abortion.

4. On a personal note, while I am prochoice I am troubled by the virtual genocide of abortion in relation to the American black community and it appears was clearly targeted at them in the past, with that continuing to this day. Anti-abortion restrictions in general appear to more affect the poor, with the wealthy easily able to bypass such laws by traveling if no other way. This is unjust.

5. The government could pass laws that would punish a woman for using certain drugs that are known to cause permanent birth defects IF she proceeds to child birth - but only if she does not abort - because the moment after that birth the government obtains jurisdiction over the child and could prosecute her for the assault - and I would want that punishment to be severe. Any post live birth "abortion" would be murder regardless of excuse or motive.

6. If a man and a woman agreed to have a child and she aborts without his consent, he would be entitled to a civil judgment against her - possibly a large one - for breach of contract. However, the government could not force her to have the baby nor criminally punish her for the abortion because until and unless there was a live birth, the government has no jurisdiction.

7. I do not believe prolifers are prejudiced against women, view women as cattle and breeding stock or condemnations, nor that prochoicers hate babies, and that the issue of abortion is not rightly related to words like conservative, liberal nor should be partisan connected etc. In my opinion, the motives of most prolifers and prochoicers are good and decent motives.

8. Anyone can have any religious or anti-religious beliefs they want and may express those beliefs publicly and strongly. However, no law should be codified upon any religious or anti-religious belief.
 

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I do declare:

1. Except for birth control, abortion is the best thing since sliced bread.

a. Abortion has prevented millions and millions of potential human beings from being born, thus sparing them the agony of this nightmare called life.

b. Abortion has prevented the emergence into this world of many individuals who would have only joined the ranks of violent criminals.


What's not to LOVE about abortion?
 

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My concern is for the fate of an unwanted child. If we as a society force a child to be born and if we as a society do not FIGHT to guard that child from physical/emotional abuse, we as a society are monsters. Though not impossible to assure healthy development during crucial stage (birth to adolescence), it would take huge commitment from us forcing the child to live. The commitment must be HUGE, due to the fragility of all children, especially the unwanted.

Outcome 1: mother has change of heart, feels maternal bond with newborn Outcome 2: newborn immediately adopted by loving mother - bonding occurs
Outcome 3: mother agrees to take child but never bonds, doesn't truly love it
3a: mother cold, emotionally negligent - baby doesn't learn to bond
3b: mother physically negligent - does not feed baby well, keep it clean, take it to the doctor - baby fails to thrive, perhaps dies
3c: parents physically abusive - anything from shaking/battering to sexual abuse, possible death of child
Outcome 4: Abuse eventually discovered and damaged child is removed, but permanent damage has occurred.
4a: damaged child adopted by people who get child help to heal damage
4b: damaged child adopted by people expecting a normal child, not able to cope with the damage
4bi: people reject child - return to system
4bii: people further abuse the child - more damage, perhaps causing sociopathy
Outcome 5: damaged child is put into foster home
5a: child provided for but it is too late to establish primitive bonds of love - behavior problems likely, but not therapy
5b: child further abused by foster family - more damage, perhaps causing sociopathy
5c: abuse gets noticed - child moved to other foster home(s); child has no sense of human connection and security, becoming alienated from society
In our current government, there are extremely few resources to mitigate such an ugly childhood. No one wants more government intervention and even if we threw unlimited money at the problem, we know effective mitigation would remain impossible. Only Solution: Unless natural mother has change of heart the newborn must immediately be adopted into a loving family that bonds with it. In case such loving families are scarce, we need to have a pool of people from those of us who dictated that the child MUST be born who will immediately step in and adopt any and all unwanted children and pledge to love them from birth. Sounds a bit unrealistic doesn't it? But before we can set up such a system to protect unwanted children, we shouldn't force them to be born.
 

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HER BODY. HER LIFE. HER CHOICE.

Never punish the mom for what the dad did. No girl or woman deserves to be treated like a second-class citizen after rape, incest, or a contraception failure causes her to have an unwanted pregnancy.
 
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