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*abortion*

Drum_corps912004

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I would just like to know why anyone would be for killing an innocent child that hasn't ever even had a chance to breath? Does this not seem like manslaughter? Please, everyone, tell me your thoughts on the subject.
 

Schweddy

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The biggest differences are that some folks to not claim that a fetus is alive. Therefore, they do not see it as murder.
 

V.I. Lenin

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It's not a child.
It's not even a baby.
Most of those who are Pro-Choice are so due to their empathy towards the unfit mother or seriously ill fetus. No one WANTS abortions, but those who are Pro-Choice recognize their need in some cases.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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It's not a child?
It's not a baby?

Give it 9 months and explain to me what it is.

The key there is the need in some cases. Some cases being rape, incest, and cases were pregnancy causes a threat to the mother.

Today that is abused. Those cases account for .005% of all abortions. That is not some cases.
 

V.I. Lenin

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In 9 months it will be a baby, true. But it's not now. Time is the only factor, but it's what happens during this time that seperates a clump of cells and a living, breathing, feeling baby.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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So, it's not murder. It's the prevention of life.

Double speak.
 

V.I. Lenin

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Murder-Ending an already started life
Preventing life-Stopping one from starting.

I'm not saying every...sexually overactive...person should get an abortion. I'm saying rare and serious cases. But you have to understand, if abortions are outlawed, they will still go on. It'd be like prohibition, in my opinion at least.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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I'm not saying against abortion would stop the process all together, but I'm saying that it should be recognized by the law that "stopping life from starting" and "ending an already started life" are both twisted acts.

"Stopping life from starting" is pretty crappy to me. This "clump of cells," given the chance would have had a name, but it was terminated and won't even be called a child.
 

Drum_corps912004

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V.I. Lenin said:
Murder-Ending an already started life
Preventing life-Stopping one from starting.
Taking out the fetus over an "UNBORN" child is not murder?
>Just because it is "unborn" doesn't mean it is not alive.
 

Blackflagx

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When an abortion takes place is does not KILL anyone, but prevents a life from starting. You might as well oppose birth control too! Using a condom will kill millions of "potential lives" (sperm). The fetus is not alive, and therefore, it is not to be considered murder. To tell a woman that she cant control her own body is insane. As of now, the fetus is part of her body! If you going to tell her that she cant control her body because she is preventing a potential life, you might as well outlaw male masturbation. I do not necessarily agree with abortion, but I think it should be up to the woman 100% in all circumstances.
 

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It is manslaughter to me. I mean the unborn baby is so innocent and someone ruthlessly kills the baby. We all age and look different as we get older. Growing inside the womb is just part of our human aging process. What next? Kill old people because they become helpless.
 

26 X World Champs

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Republican said:
It is manslaughter to me. I mean the unborn baby is so innocent and someone ruthlessly kills the baby. We all age and look different as we get older. Growing inside the womb is just part of our human aging process. What next? Kill old people because they become helpless.
See, this is the typical exaggeration used too often by Republicans. You know, "What next? Kill old people because they become helpless? or Gay marriage? What next Bestiality? It's so much BS.....So, to answer your question...why don't we call anyone over 65 (Social Security problem solved) and also kill anyone who has sex? Abortion issued solved. We can also kill anyone who disagrees with Republicans, then the evil left wing conspiracy will be done too....Oh wait...then we'd have only one party...so...cool, filibusters can be dumped since no one will need 'em....
 

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Well It's used because it's a good question. Why are democrats so defensive? It's always hard to handle the truth. The Unborn and Old people are good comparisons. Both are sometimes unwanted and unable to defend for themselves and therefore killed and neglected.
 

26 X World Champs

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Republican said:
Well It's used because it's a good question. Why are democrats so defensive? It's always hard to handle the truth. The Unborn and Old people are good comparisons. Both are sometimes unwanted and unable to defend for themselves and therefore killed and neglected.
HUH? What part of the USA are you in where "old" people are killed and neglected? You really believe that an abortion and an old person are a good analogy?
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Blackflagx said:
When an abortion takes place is does not KILL anyone, but prevents a life from starting. You might as well oppose birth control too! Using a condom will kill millions of "potential lives" (sperm). The fetus is not alive, and therefore, it is not to be considered murder. To tell a woman that she cant control her own body is insane. As of now, the fetus is part of her body! If you going to tell her that she cant control her body because she is preventing a potential life, you might as well outlaw male masturbation. I do not necessarily agree with abortion, but I think it should be up to the woman 100% in all circumstances.
This was my response to the same type of argument from Fu_chick when she mentioned condoms "killing potential life"

There is no destruction of potential life in a condom. When you use a condom there is no potential life, this is before pregnancy.
It was taken further when she said that sperm and eggs were potential life and there for condoms were "killing potential life."

Sperm, if not ejaculated from the body... umm... "manually," will naturally leave the body in nocturnal emmissions. The male body never stops producing sperm and since it can't just keep holding it all in, it has to get rid of it.

I'm sure I don't have to explain to you how the natural process of a period gets rid of eggs. The potential life life in the egg or in the sperm is not the potential life that exists in a zygote.
 

Republican

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26 X World Champs said:
HUH? What part of the USA are you in where "old" people are killed and neglected? You really believe that an abortion and an old person are a good analogy?
It's just a fact that nursing homes aren't the greatest to old people and in some cases these old people are treated horrible. It's a comparison I didn't say all old people just like all unborn babies aren't murdered. The un wanted unborn babies are murdered and the unwanted old people are stuck in nursing homes where some are neglected.
 

26 X World Champs

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Republican said:
It's just a fact that nursing homes aren't the greatest to old people and in some cases these old people are treated horrible. It's a comparison I didn't say all old people just like all unborn babies aren't murdered. The un wanted unborn babies are murdered and the unwanted old people are stuck in nursing homes where some are neglected.
Sorry, I'll stand by my last post that there's no comparison between an abortion and an elderly citizen.
 

GarzaUK

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Abortion isn't a major issue in my country, it's never talked about in politics at all.

Just an observation.

Have you noticed how conservatives try to protect life and the rights BEFORE birth. (Abortion, stem cell research)
And Liberals try and protect life and the rights AFTER birth, (social programs, anti-war, death pelanty)

Funny ain't it.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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You make it seem like only one side of the spectrum exaggerates things, Champ. When I say abortion is wrong someone always throws a rape victim at me, figuratively speaking, but when you boil it down, cases of rape AND incest occur in in 1.(number)% of all abortions.

Source available upon request.

The point is, when either side of an issue sees the down side of an argument, they reach to extremes to make their case.

One way or another, fetus or elderly, both are lost lives if terminated. That is his point, however I also see this as a terrible comparison.
 

ShamMol

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Gandhi>Bush said:
You make it seem like only one side of the spectrum exaggerates things, Champ. When I say abortion is wrong someone always throws a rape victim at me, figuratively speaking, but when you boil it down, cases of rape AND incest occur in in 1.(number)% of all abortions.

Source available upon request.

The point is, when either side of an issue sees the down side of an argument, they reach to extremes to make their case.

One way or another, fetus or elderly, both are lost lives if terminated. That is his point, however I also see this as a terrible comparison.
I see it as that too. When someone is put into a home for the elderly, it is not the same decision as decidining to have an abortion.

This is what it comes down to. The left believes that life begins sometime after conception (varies) and the right believes that it begins at conception. Those are the sides and no matter what is argued, nothing will change with those sides.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Nothing will change those sides?

I like to think we're here trying to change each others minds. I don't know what the point of debating is if you do not intend on winning, or persuading.
 

26 X World Champs

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Gandhi>Bush said:
You make it seem like only one side of the spectrum exaggerates things, Champ. When I say abortion is wrong someone always throws a rape victim at me, figuratively speaking, but when you boil it down, cases of rape AND incest occur in in 1.(number)% of all abortions.

Source available upon request.

The point is, when either side of an issue sees the down side of an argument, they reach to extremes to make their case.

One way or another, fetus or elderly, both are lost lives if terminated. That is his point, however I also see this as a terrible comparison.
You're right, I agree that it is a terrible comparison.

The bottom line is that abortion is, and will remain legal. Doesn't it make sense to increase the use of birth control in whatever form, including abstinence? Realistically, IMHO, birth control & sex education are the best solutions we can offer to lower the abortion rate.

Pretending that abortions will stop is not a solution. Getting more people educated and using birth control is THE solution. It is the REALISTIC one too, since abortion will always be legal.

If we accept that abortion will always be legal, what then is the best way to reduce the number of abortions? Isn't sex ed & birth control the only realistic approach to take?

If we remove the passion, remove the bible, remove the rhetoric from both sides of the argument you again come back to the best solution, sex ed & birth control.

Isn't it time we, as a nation, took birth control's role seriously?
 

Hoot

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26 X World Champs said:
You're right, I agree that it is a terrible comparison.

The bottom line is that abortion is, and will remain legal. Doesn't it make sense to increase the use of birth control in whatever form, including abstinence? Realistically, IMHO, birth control & sex education are the best solutions we can offer to lower the abortion rate.
I couldn't agree more...I've always argued that the right attacks the problem 'after-the-fact,'...meaning after the woman is already pregnant.

The real solution to ending abortions is preventing pregnancy in the first place. This means better sex education and more widely distributed contraceptives.

Unfortunately, the same people who are against abortions are generally against educating our children and providing contraceptives!

Hypocritical?
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Hoot said:
I couldn't agree more...I've always argued that the right attacks the problem 'after-the-fact,'...meaning after the woman is already pregnant.

The real solution to ending abortions is preventing pregnancy in the first place. This means better sex education and more widely distributed contraceptives.

Unfortunately, the same people who are against abortions are generally against educating our children and providing contraceptives!

Hypocritical?
I completely agree that the problem should be handled before hand. That is why I believe you shouldn't be able to destroy your fetus afterwards and escape your responsibility.

You think handing out condoms to children will lower the pregnancy rate?

My freshmen year of highschool we had 3 girls drop out of school because they got knocked up by some other stupid kid. Let me tell you, it scared the crap out of all of us. All three of them had their babies, all three have, today, finished highschool. Today they're fairly resposible people, and their mistakes instilled responsibility not just in them, but in all of us. Their hasn't been a pregnancy since.

Condoms are not handed out at my school. If they had been, would the pregnancy rate be the same? Who knows?

If they had been, would the amount of teenage sex be the same?

I'm all for educating about condoms, but there is a far difference between education and encouragement.
 
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