Abortion on Christian Grounds

[tosca1]

A discussion with a Christian elder led to the issues of abortion and gay marriage. To my surprise, he stated that, "the pages are blank" on those issues - meaning they're not in the Bible. It is true. Nowhere in the Bible does it explicitly state, "Thou shalt not abort"....but I don't think the pages are blank. So I did my own research. THE PAGES ARE INDEED NOT BLANK! Here are the results.

This elderly is a good man with good intentions, doing his own ministry of visiting state penitentiaries, actively doing his part in spreading not only the gospel, but compassion and kindness. I pray to be blessed with the same dedication and perseverance.

I wrestled with myself whether I should inform him of my findings....even now, I still don't know if I should.

His view about those issues is however not unique. There are Christians who share the same view.

This thread is for my brothers and sisters in Christ. It is written with love, and in the spirit of sharing. I do hope you share them with others. The pages are not blank. We just need glasses to see.

 

[tosca1]

I have several points to give in support of my position regarding the Biblical view on abortion - or the killing of the "fruit of the womb."
I will start first by giving the various references that points to the fact that the fetus is human.
The pages are not blank when it comes to the fetus being human. Several passages from the Bible depict that.

Here is one reference from Genesis 25, talking about the families of Ishmael and Isaac.

Genesis 25
19 This is the genealogy of Isaac, Abraham’s son. Abraham begot Isaac. 20 Isaac was forty years old when he took Rebekah as wife, the daughter of Bethuel the Syrian of Padan Aram, the sister of Laban the Syrian. 21 Now Isaac pleaded with the LORD for his wife, because she was barren; and the LORD granted his plea, and Rebekah his wife conceived. 22 But the children struggled together within her; and she said, “If all is well, why am I like this?” So she went to inquire of the LORD.
23 And the LORD said to her:
“Two nations are in your womb,
Two peoples shall be separated from your body;
One people shall be stronger than the other,
And the older shall serve the younger.”
24 So when her days were fulfilled for her to give birth, indeed there were twins in her womb. 25 And the first came out red. He was like a hairy garment all over; so they called his name Esau. 26 Afterward his brother came out, and his hand took hold of Esau’s heel; so his name was called Jacob.[c] Isaac was sixty years old when she bore them.

The fetuses were referred to as "children."
Two nations are in your womb. Nations are people.


The following verses from Job supports my position that the fetus is human.

Job 3
After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.
2 And Job spake, and said,
3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.

JOB 10
8 Thine hands have made me and fashioned me together round about; yet thou dost destroy me.
9 Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me into dust again?
10 Hast thou not poured me out as milk, and curdled me like cheese?
11 Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews.
12 Thou hast granted me life and favour, and thy visitation hath preserved my spirit.

JOB 31
14 What then shall I do when God riseth up? and when he visiteth, what shall I answer him?
15 Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb?
16 If I have withheld the poor from their desire, or have caused the eyes of the widow to fail;
17 Or have eaten my morsel myself alone, and the fatherless hath not eaten thereof;
18 (For from my youth he was brought up with me, as with a father, and I have guided her from my mother's womb)

The following verses from Isaiah show the significance of the fetus in the eyes of God.

Isaiah 44: 2
44 Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:
2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

Isaiah 44
24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Isaiah 13:18
18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.

NOTE: If the “fruit of the womb” is not another human being, why would it require any pity at all?

 

[tosca1]

The Old Testament provides most of the information regarding God's view of life before birth. The law that specifically points to the issue of taking the fetus' life is in the Book of Exodus:

"Exodus 21 The Law Concerning Violence

22 “If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."

This is quite clear. A man who induces abortion or miscarriage (premature birth) is to be punished, which is a clear indication that God values life before birth.

Jesus Christ - God incarnate - gave the message of love in the New Testament. The unborn human is as deserving of that love.

Now that I've established the verses that clearly indicate the great significance that God had placed on the fetus, and that it is considered human let me get to the next point.

The Commandment: Thou shalt not kill.

Matthew 19
The Rich and the Kingdom of God
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”


Matthew 5:17-20
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

The Spirit of the Law is as important as the letter of the law.

 

[tosca1]

Ground #2


“My body, my choice.”

True followers of Christ must not support this feminist doctrine for the simple reason that your body is not your own in the first place.

1 Corinthians 6
19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body[c] and in your spirit, which are God’s.

1 Corinthians 3
16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

It is said that today is the generation of the “I,” or the “Me,” or the “My.”

“My body, my choice” really sums it up. Everything is directed towards self-gratification. From all the material things we have and try to accumulate, the pursuit of careers, our obsession with personal fulfillment.

Sacrifices are made in order to achieve these gratifications. Priorities are re-shuffled. Family. Children.
Business is done, people shop - which makes a demand that therefore, people must work even on The Lord’s Day.
All for the sake of gratifying the SELF.

Those who've read and understood the Bible will know that the Old Testament shows a seeming endless cycle of idolatry - wrath of God - repentance - forgiveness - idolatry - etc.., The Jews just kept on backsliding and almost always getting influenced by pagans to the point that they end up giving sacrifices to idols and other gods. One of the worst they did was sacrificing their children to the god Baal, or Molech.

Evidently in the present time, SELF had become a god. SELF had become the modern-day Baal.

Don’t we Christians believe that the body is not ours? That it is the temple of the Lord?
That since we carry Christ in our hearts, we are the Church?

Our children are not ours. They’ve been entrusted to us by God.

Jeremiah 19
3 And say, Hear ye the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle.
4 Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents;
5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:

Are we not the present day equivalent of the stiff-necked, backsliding Jews from the Old Testament?
They said they believe in God, and yet they worshipped other gods. They made offerings to other gods….they even committed the worst sacrifice in the eyes of God. They offered God’s children as sacrifice to Baal.

Think about it. Are we not sacrificing our unborn children to the god, SELF?

 

[tosca1]

Feminism - and all the worms that came out with it. The springboard that catapulted the "good" fight for the rights of all. Except that of her unborn child. Which she stripped of all rights as a human being.

Sometimes I couldn't help but wonder: Is feminism, EVE, all over again? Did woman fall for the serpent's same old line?

 

[tosca1]

Ground #3

Matthew 22
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

If we're supposed to love God with all our heart , with all our soul and with all our mind.....Why do we desecrate His temple?

Why are we placing SELF above Him? Why do we approve, and abet others to offend Him?

By supporting the murder of unborn children, we break those two greatest Commandment of all.

 

[tosca1]

Ground #4


What do you say when someone asks you, "Is abortion right or wrong?"

What do you say when a fellow-Christian tells you, "Bring the church to the 21st century!" or "It's time to modernize the church."

Those statements suggest God is out-dated. That God should bow down to suit what the modern times demand. Therefore that means this world wants to dictate to God.

Those statements smack of arrogance, vanity and rebellion. Isn't that reminiscent of the fallen angel, Lucifer? Who was arrogant and vain?
Who led a rebellion against God?

Romans 12
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Political correctness does not trump the Laws of God. One can be civil and diplomatic.....but that does not necessarily mean we set aside, or attempt to twist around what's written in the Bible. We have to hold our Christian ground.

We've been warned that Satan is a master of deceit, who will use anything or anyone as a tool to alienate and lead us from God.

Before we follow or approve of any new way of life, we have to contemplate deeply and ask ourselves:
whose agenda are we promoting? God's or Satan's?

 

[tosca1]

Ground # 5

We have to look inside and ask, why did we want religion in the first place?
Why did we embrace Christianity? What is our reason for being a Christian?

If the answer is salvation and eternal life, then it's very crucial to know and understand God's will, and to be able to discern when we're being misled. Otherwise, what's the point? Why bother going through all the motion? It's not like as if we're on a trial run.

Eternal life is the purpose of this whole exercise, is it not?

 

[tosca1]

Lastly....

Are we off the hook if we choose to be neutral or silent regarding abortion?

Proverbs 24
11 If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain;
12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?

We are supposed to help the weak. How ironic that the most helpless humans are those inside the womb.

Matthew 5:7
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

We're supposed to show mercy....and compassion.
If you know someone is being maimed and killed, wouldn't you call for help?
Wouldn't you try to do something about it?

Or, do you look the other way?

Matt 7: 21-27
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

None of those passages say anything about the issue of abortion. All they do is show description in a time before gestational terminology.

If I recall, this very same bible also empties the wombs of quite a number of women, kills lots of actual children, and even states that the value of in infant under a month is absolutely nothing.

It also states that the price for harming a fetus is arbitrary and dependent on what the man wants to charge for labor lost, so to speak. However, if you also harm the woman in the process, that is punishable by the death penalty.

The bible doesn't seem to value fetuses -- or even infants -- very highly.

 

[tosca1]

If I recall, this very same bible also empties the wombs of quite a number of women, kills lots of actual children, and even states that the value of in infant under a month is absolutely nothing.

You're referring to the Old Testament. God had His reasons. Please cite those verses you've alluded to.

Christians who'd read the Bible are more likely to be able to follow - as the OP said, this thread is for Christians.

You are more than welcome to give your opinion, however it's expected that you'd have some understanding of the Book.
If not, at least have an open-mind about what will be explained to you. The answer may not appeal to you but remember,
this is about a faith.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

I would think christians should be more likely to support abortion. A christian believes that baby will just go to heaven to be with jesus. I believe that life is extinguished and gone forever. I understand why I oppose it, I don't understand why they do.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

You're referring to the Old Testament. God had His reasons. Please cite those verses you've alluded to.

Christians who'd read the Bible are more likely to be able to follow - as the OP said, this thread is for Christians.

You are more than welcome to give your opinion, however it's expected that you'd have some understanding of the Book.
If not, at least have an open-mind about what will be explained to you. The answer may not appeal to you but remember,
this is about a faith.

Thank goodness I already typed this up. You're not worth the effort of typing it twice.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/abortion/160652-abortion-your-view-would-you-do-18.html#post1061887186

Ah, the good old "the OT doesn't count," huh? It counts when you want to say being gay is a sin, or explain why creationism is "true," but all of a sudden, it doesn't count when it's inconvenient for you.

Sorry. I don't accept convenient hypocrisy as an argument.

 

[ChuckBerry]

These are the problems you run in to when you seek to use the Bible as a legal document. That isn't its purpose.

 

[tosca1]

I would think christians should be more likely to support abortion. A christian believes that baby will just go to heaven to be with Jesus.

That's like saying Christians should've supported and rejoiced in the Sandy Hook massacre. I've heard that line before. But of course, it came from someone with hardly any understanding of the Christian faith. Their views based on ignorance.

The same idea about martyrdom. I've heard it said that Christians who are killed and persecuted should be happy to become martyrs.
Who wants to be persecuted and be killed? It's not a question of wanting to.....but whether one is WILLING to.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Thank goodness I already typed this up. You're not worth the effort of typing it twice.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/abortion/160652-abortion-your-view-would-you-do-18.html#post1061887186

Ah, the good old "the OT doesn't count" bull****, huh? It counts when you want to say being gay is a sin, or explain why creationism is "true," but all of a sudden, it doesn't count when it's inconvenient for you.

Sorry. I don't accept convenient hypocrisy as an argument.

Careful, this thread was carefully lodged in the religious section as to avoid any kind of debate or criticism.

 

[tosca1]

Thank goodness I already typed this up. You're not worth the effort of typing it twice.

Okay, let's analyze on your opinion.

Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post

Two lives that do not get equal protection, no matter how fair you think you have made it. God said that life begins at conception, and that life is precious. Abortion is taking that life, no different than if I murdered my neighbor.

Smoke and Mirror:

Did he really? :lol:

Funny. God says one becomes a living being upon drawing their first breath.

"...breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living being." (Genesis 2:7)

:lol:

That's the creation of the first man! Have you noticed btw, that Adam wasn't an infant?

If I go along with your interpretation - you could also say that anyone younger than Adam is a walking zombie! :lamo

This is a clear example of criticizing based on ignorance.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

wrong thread.

As I said in that thread, the same thing is used throughout the Bible, applied to numerous people who were, one presumes, born.

So I guess you have nothing to address the rest of my post, then.

 

[tosca1]

Ah, the good old "the OT doesn't count," huh?

Who says the Old Testament doesn't count? Read again. It seems we're not just dealing with ignorance here..... :mrgreen:

It counts when you want to say being gay is a sin, or explain why creationism is "true," but all of a sudden, it doesn't count when it's inconvenient for you.

Sorry. I don't accept convenient hypocrisy as an argument.

:roll:

I don't know how "hypocrisy" entered into these BUT......

....the New Testament counts too when we talk about gay sex as a sin. Another opinion based on ignorance.

 

[Captain Adverse]

I'm not sure I understand what your position is with Christians, although it seems you are arguing "with love" that other Christians should accept your position of humanity at conception.

The bottom line still remains: if you believe this then feel free to avoid voluntary abortion. If not, feel free to have one. Under the law it is a "choice" women are allowed to make up to a certain point in a pregnancy.

In either case, being Christian, judgement is still only His, not ours.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Who says the Old Testament doesn't count? Read again. It seems we're not just dealing with ignorance here..... :mrgreen:

:roll:

I don't know how "hypocrisy" entered into these BUT......

....the New Testament counts too when we talk about gay sex as a sin. Another opinion based on ignorance.

Well, then what's your contention to the verses I posted, which are actually about the practical treatment proposed by the bible of fetuses, babies, and life, as opposed to yours, which are just poetic nothingness?

 

[tosca1]

The Bible also questions the worth of a poor life, suggesting miscarriage would have been preferable.

"If a man begets a hundred children, and lives many years, so that the days of his years are many, but he does not enjoy life's good things, and also has no burial, I say that an untimely birth is better off than he. For it comes into vanity and goes into darkness, and in darkness its name is covered; moreover it has not seen the sun or known anything; yet it finds rest rather than he." (Ecclesiastes 6:3-5)

Let me put the previous line too, as it shows the intro:

Ecclesiastes
6 There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, and it is common among men: 2 A man to whom God has given riches and wealth and honor, so that he lacks nothing for himself of all he desires; yet God does not give him power to eat of it, but a foreigner consumes it. This is vanity, and it is an evil affliction.

3 If a man begets a hundred children and lives many years, so that the days of his years are many, but his soul is not satisfied with goodness, or indeed he has no burial, I say that a stillborn child is better than he— 4 for it comes in vanity and departs in darkness, and its name is covered with darkness. 5 Though it has not seen the sun or known anything, this has more rest than that man, 6 even if he lives a thousand years twice—but has not seen goodness. Do not all go to one place?

Take note too that even though it referred to untimely birth (miscarriage or stillborn) - that does not suggest induced miscarriage.

Here is the explanation for that verse by Solomon.

III. The preference which the preacher gives to an untimely birth before him: An untimely birth, a child that is carried from the womb to the grave, is better than he. Better is the fruit that drops from the tree before it is ripe than that which is left to hang on till it is rotten. Job, in his passion, thinks the condition of an untimely birth better than his when he was in adversity (Job 3:16) but Solomon here pronounces it better than the condition of a worldling in his greatest prosperity, when the world smiles upon him. 1. He grants the condition of an untimely birth, upon many accounts, to be very sad (Ecclesiastes 6:4,5): He comes in with vanity (for, as to this world, he that is born and dies immediately was born in vain), and he departs in darkness little or no notice is taken of him being an abortive, he has no name, or, if he had, it would soon be forgotten and buried in oblivion it would be covered with darkness, as the body is with the earth. Nay (Ecclesiastes 6:5), he has not seen the sun, but from the darkness of the womb he is hurried immediately to that of the grave, and, which is worse than not being known to any, he has not known any thing, and therefore has come short of that which is the greatest pleasure and honour of man.
Those that live in wilful ignorance, and know nothing to purpose, are no better than an untimely birth that has not seen the sun nor known any thing. 2. Yet he prefers it before that of a covetous miser.
This untimely birth has more rest than the other, for this has some rest, but the other has none this has no trouble and disquiet, but the other is in perpetual agitation, and has nothing but trouble, trouble of his own making. The shorter the life is the longer the rest and the fewer the days, and the less we have to do with this troublesome world, the less trouble we know.

'Tis better die a child at four,
Than live, and die so at fourscore.

The reason he gives why this has more rest is because all go to one place to rest in, and this is sooner at his rest, Ecclesiastes 6:6. He that lives a thousand years goes to the same place with the child that does not live an hour, Ecclesiastes 3:20. The grave is the place we shall all meet in.
Whatever differences there may be in men's condition in this world, they must all die, are all under the same sentence, and, to outward appearance, their deaths are alike. The grave is to one, as well as another, a land of silence, of darkness, of separation from the living, and a sleeping-place. It is the common rendezvous of rich and poor, honourable and mean, learned and unlearned the short-lived and long-lived meet in the grave, only one rides post thither, the other goes by a slower conveyance the dust of both mingles, and lies undistinguished.

Ecclesiastes 6:1 - Matthew Henry's Complete Commentary on the Bible - Commentaries - StudyLight.org

 

[tosca1]

God also assigns absolutely no value whatsoever to an infant under one month old.

"If the person is from a month old up to five years old, your valuation shall be for a male five shekels of silver, and for a female your valuation shall be three shekels of silver." (Leviticus 27:6)

That's another snippet taken out of context. :roll:

Leviticus 27

Redeeming Persons and Property Dedicated to God

27 Now the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘When a man consecrates by a vow certain persons to the Lord, according to your valuation, 3 if your valuation is of a male from twenty years old up to sixty years old, then your valuation shall be fifty shekels of silver, according to the shekel of the sanctuary. 4 If it is a female, then your valuation shall be thirty shekels; 5 and if from five years old up to twenty years old, then your valuation for a male shall be twenty shekels, and for a female ten shekels; 6 and if from a month old up to five years old, then your valuation for a male shall be five shekels of silver, and for a female your valuation shall be three shekels of silver; 7 and if from sixty years old and above, if it is a male, then your valuation shall be fifteen shekels, and for a female ten shekels.

8 ‘But if he is too poor to pay your valuation, then he shall present himself before the priest, and the priest shall set a value for him; according to the ability of him who vowed, the priest shall value him.

Here's the explanation:

Having given laws concerning instituted services, here he directs concerning vows and voluntary services, the free-will offerings of their mouth. Perhaps some devout serious people among them might be so affected with what Moses had delivered to them in the foregoing chapter as in a pang of zeal to consecrate themselves, or their children, or estates to him: this, because honestly meant, God would accept; but, because men are apt to repent of such vows, he leaves room for the redemption of what had been so consecrated, at a certain rate.


A book of rates is accordingly provided, by which the priests were to go in their estimation.

Here is, 1. The rate of the middle-aged, between twenty and threescore, these were valued highest, because most serviceable; a male fifty shekels, and a female thirty, v. 3, v. 4. The females were then less esteemed, but not so in Christ; for in Christ Jesus there is neither male nor female, Gal. 3:28 . Note, Those that are in the prime of their time must look upon themselves as obliged to do more in the service of God and their generation than can be expected either from minors, that have not yet arrived to their usefulness, or from the aged, that have survived it.

2. The rate of the youth between five years old and twenty was less, because they were then less capable of doing service, v.

5. Infants under five years old were capable of being vowed to God by their parents, even before they were born, as Samuel was, but not to be presented and redeemed till a month old, that, as one sabbath passed over them before they were circumcised, so one new moon might pass over them before they were estimated; and their valuation was but small, v. 6. Samuel, who was thus vowed to God, was not redeemed, because he was a Levite, and a particular favourite, and therefore was employed in his childhood in the service of the tabernacle.

 

[tosca1]

Did he really? :lol:

Nor does he assign any criminal punishment to harming a fetus. The husband may charge you for, basically, labor lost, and it is up to him whether or not he wishes to charge you. But you get the death penalty is for harming the woman herself. Women are of higher important to your god.

"When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."

Lost labor? Where do you see labor in that? :lol: You've got quite a creative imagination.
Another snippet taken out of context, of course.

The Law Concerning Violence

12 “He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death. 13 However, if he did not lie in wait, but God delivered him into his hand, then I will appoint for you a place where he may flee.

14 “But if a man acts with premeditation against his neighbor, to kill him by treachery, you shall take him from My altar, that he may die.

15 “And he who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.

16 “He who kidnaps a man and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, shall surely be put to death.

17 “And he who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.

18 “If men contend with each other, and one strikes the other with a stone or with his fist, and he does not die but is confined to his bed, 19 if he rises again and walks about outside with his staff, then he who struck him shall be acquitted. He shall only pay for the loss of his time, and shall provide for him to be thoroughly healed.

20 “And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. 21 Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.

22 “If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

26 “If a man strikes the eye of his male or female servant, and destroys it, he shall let him go free for the sake of his eye. 27 And if he knocks out the tooth of his male or female servant, he shall let him go free for the sake of his tooth.

Obviously that particular verse refers to both, woman or child. Otherwise, why would it describe a pregnant woman if the fetus has no value!

And here's the sentence for that crime:

23 But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe

 

[tosca1]

These are the problems you run in to when you seek to use the Bible as a legal document. That isn't its purpose.

It's not being used as a legal document, but obviously, the Bible is the source where a Christian will understand what is required from him by God!

If we're supposed to obey God, we have to know what it is that He wants! How can one obey something he doesn't know anything about?