Abortion is NOT murder

[Missed AB]

Mac, nice list. All you did was prove it has been used. You wrote:

In law, Unborn child is used more often than any other.

I challenged you to prove your claim.

Really? Unborn child is used more frequently than any other legal term? I'll send you 20 dollars to your paypal account if you can prove that one.

Common Legal Words

Unborn child isn't even on the list

Your rather large list does not prove original claim... yet again.

 

[mac]

Mac, nice list. All you did was prove it has been used. You wrote:



I challenged you to prove your claim.



Your rather large list does not prove original claim... yet again.

It does. Those are the laws of 27 states out of the 32 states that have such laws that use the term unborn child in their laws. That would mean that the term is used more than any other in relevenat law.

Unless you are under the impression that I meant Unborn fetus is used more often than ANY legal term in ALL laws concerning ANYTHING, then you are wrong and I am correct and have shown you that I am correct. Keep your $20 anyways. If you put this back in context you may understand the conversation a little better.

I see no reason why we can't simply use the proper term for the entity in whatever stage of development it is in. Zygote, Embryo, or Fetus, depending on how developed it is.

Well, it's not just an issue of medicine. In law, Unborn child is used more often than any other.

 

[Missed AB]

You claimed "Unborn child" to be the most used legal term.... Here's 20 dollars to your paypal account if you can back up your claim that "Unborn child" is the most commonly used legal term.

Unless you are under the impression that I meant Unborn fetus is used more often than ANY legal term in ALL laws concerning ANYTHING, then you are wrong and I am correct and have shown you that I am correct. Keep your $20 anyways. If you put this back in context you may understand the conversation a little better.

Yes, believe it or not, I understood you to think "unborn child" was the most used legal term. Yes, better.

 

[mac]

Yes, believe it or not, I understood you to think "unborn child" was the most used legal term. Yes, better.

So how does it feel now that you were arrogant and condescending based on your own lack of reading comprehension and understanding?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Missed AB]

In law, Unborn child is used more often than any other.

Really? Unborn child is used more frequently than any other legal term? I'll send you 20 dollars to your paypal account if you can prove that one.

Common Legal Words

Unborn child isn't even on the list

My offer still stands. If you can prove that unborn child is one of the most used legal terms, I will send you 20 dollars to your paypal account... You going to back up your claims or just change the subject?

Again you have shown nothing.

You claimed "Unborn child" to be the most used legal term. ...
Put up or shut up. Here's 20 dollars to your paypal account if you can back up your claim that "Unborn child" is the most commonly used legal term.

... Unless you are under the impression that I meant Unborn fetus is used more often than ANY legal term...

Really seems like I missed that one. I missed that one all the way to a few posts ago....

So how does it feel now that you were arrogant and condescending based on your own lack of reading comprehension and understanding?

Read above and answer... Can't even make this stuff up.

 

[mac]

Really seems like I missed that one. I missed that one all the way to a few posts ago....


Read above and answer... Can't even make this stuff up.

Either English isn't your first language or reading comprehension isn't your strongest attribute.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Moderator's Warning:

Stop sniping at each other and discuss the topic.

 

[mac]

Moderator's Warning:

Stop sniping at each other and discuss the topic.

Party pooper.

 

[Bodi]

Mac, nice list. All you did was prove it has been used. You wrote:



I challenged you to prove your claim.



Your rather large list does not prove original claim... yet again.

Uhhh WHAT!? You say, "if you can back up your claim that "Unborn child" is the most commonly used legal term."
He posts a huge list backing up his claim... and then you say, "nice list. All you did was prove it has been used."

Am I the only one SERIOUSLY confused here?

 

[Missed AB]

Uhhh WHAT!? You say, "if you can back up your claim that "Unborn child" is the most commonly used legal term."
He posts a huge list backing up his claim... and then you say, "nice list. All you did was prove it has been used."

Am I the only one SERIOUSLY confused here?

You and mac are confused, so yes, there is only 1 person confused.

You/mac made the claim as you quoted above. I supplied a list of common used legal terms, unborn child was not on it. I asked for proof THAT IT WAS THE MOST COMMONLY USED LEGAL TERM AS YOU/HE CLAIMED. I have never seen unborn child on any list of commonly used legal terms. All YOU/HE did was show the term is used. THAT IS NOT PROOF THAT IT IS THE MOST COMMONLY USED LEGAL TERM.

STILL CONFUSED?

 

[mac]

You and mac are confused, so yes, there is only 1 person confused.

You/mac made the claim as you quoted above. I supplied a list of common used legal terms, unborn child was not on it. I asked for proof THAT IT WAS THE MOST COMMONLY USED LEGAL TERM AS YOU/HE CLAIMED. I have never seen unborn child on any list of commonly used legal terms. All YOU/HE did was show the term is used. THAT IS NOT PROOF THAT IT IS THE MOST COMMONLY USED LEGAL TERM.

STILL CONFUSED?

We also discussed the cause of your confusion. As I said before, in regards to the relevant laws, the term unborn child is more often used then the terms zygote, embryo and fetus.

You commited to a withchunt based on your own misunderstanding, was made aware of your misunderstanding, then returned to the original witchunt despite awareness of your original misunderstanding.

 

[Missed AB]

We also discussed the cause of your confusion. As I said before, in regards to the relevant laws, the term unborn child is more often used then the terms zygote, embryo and fetus.

You commited to a withchunt based on your own misunderstanding, was made aware of your misunderstanding, then returned to the original witchunt despite awareness of your original misunderstanding.

Don't try to change history. It's all here for the reading.

In law, Unborn child is used more often than any other."

I asked you to prove your above claim, and I also supplied a list showing it does not even show up on a common term list: " Unborn child is used more frequently than any other legal term?" and supply a list of common legal terms.

At no point did YOU state that you were unclear earlier in your rather broad statement and several other posts and meant to write unborn child is most common among fetal development terms.

Instead you continued to supply a long list to back up your claim as written/challenged.

When I pointed out that the list does not prove it is the MOST USED LEGAL TERM, you then wrote:

It does. Those are the laws of 27 states out of the 32 states that have such laws that use the term unborn child in their laws. That would mean that the term is used more than any other in relevenat law.

Now you accuse me of a witch hunt? The problem is you slowly refine your point over posts, instead of being clear in your original post.

To suggest now, that you were clear throughout, when you were not only unclear and broad with your statement. I WAS VERY CLEAR IN MY STATEMENTS AND MY QUESTION OF IT BEING THE MOST USED LEGAL TERM. Maybe you need to do a better job of reading and a better job of being complete in your throughts in your writings.

This whole confusion could have been avoided if at some point you made it clear that you were discussing fetal development AND NOT THE MOST USED LEGAL TERM, PERIOD... Still think I'm the 14 year old with the learning disability?

 

[mac]

Don't try to change history. It's all here for the reading.

Yes it is. Post #27 and #28. Please revist those.

Still think I'm the 14 year old with the learning disability?

Well, I didn't, but it is possible I was wrong.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Moderator's Warning:

mac and Missed AB, you are both threadbanned. Any further posts in this thread from either of you will incur a 5 point infraction.

 

[jamesrage]

Recently I read a thread which claims the use of "Unborn Child" is intellectually honest. The author does this by doing "A little research" to find links to the commonality of the phrase. There by creating a false validity that it must be proper terminology.

I am wondering on exactly how the strive for proper terminology will accept to not using a legal term in non-legal ways. One way is with murder vs abortion.

Let us explore

Murder - Criminal Law Lawyer Source

is the CRIME of intentionally causing another person's death without legal excuse or justification.


If it is not illegal, then it's not murder.

I give you "unborn child". Will you stop using murder?

In a legal sense abortion is not murder. Its nothing more than legal semantics. However morally what an abortionist does is no different than what a serial murderer does. This is why I applaud Scott Roeder for killing Tiller the baby serial killer and why I find it hypocritical of the abortionist to not condemn one killer who has taken many innocent lives while at the same time condemning someone who has taken out this killer.

 

[Deuce]

In a legal sense abortion is not murder. Its nothing more than legal semantics. However morally what an abortionist does is no different than what a serial murderer does. This is why I applaud Scott Roeder for killing Tiller the baby serial killer and why I find it hypocritical of the abortionist to not condemn one killer who has taken many innocent lives while at the same time condemning someone who has taken out this killer.

Some people don't think the unborn fetus is "alive" and "human" until some point in its development. For example, the egg undergoes its first cell division. You have two cells. So far, it's a creature approximately as alive as fungus. There's no brain. There's not even a nervous system. Is it "alive?" Is it "human?" How about the sperm and egg, just prior to conception? Are they alive? Is masturbation mass-murder?

You say yes, the just-fertilized egg is a human. Others do not, and biologically speaking they have a legitimate argument. You don't have to agree with it, but you should understand that not everyone shares your view, and there's no clear secular definition of "alive" that really helps here.

 

[Goobieman]

If it is not illegal, then it's not murder.

In the -legal- sense, yes.
It also means that if the law changes to that effect, then it -is- murder.

 

[molten_dragon]

In the -legal- sense, yes.
It also means that if the law changes to that effect, then it -is- murder.

Well, actually it would depend on exactly what the law classed it as. It could be manslaughter, it could just be a misdemeanor. But you're correct in the spirit of the thing.

 

[Bodi]

You and mac are confused, so yes, there is only 1 person confused.

You/mac made the claim as you quoted above. I supplied a list of common used legal terms, unborn child was not on it. I asked for proof THAT IT WAS THE MOST COMMONLY USED LEGAL TERM AS YOU/HE CLAIMED. I have never seen unborn child on any list of commonly used legal terms. All YOU/HE did was show the term is used. THAT IS NOT PROOF THAT IT IS THE MOST COMMONLY USED LEGAL TERM.

STILL CONFUSED?

Not about that... but I am confused about this comment, "You and mac are confused, so yes, there is only 1 person confused". If two people are confused then there is obviously more than one person confused.

Regarding most common legal term... I don't remember ever saying that it was, just that it is a valid term and therefore a term that is appropriate to use. If a person argues against its use, then it is they that have the problem, and are arguing a logical fallacy and not the other way around. Got it?

 

[viteza]

These two cells that split have the chromosomes and the DNA inside of them make up this living being. I am sure you know what this means . . . This cell has the babies eye color, gender, temperment and every possible characteristic already residing within the cell. That is an amazing and a beautiful thing. If this cell is not alive, I dont know what is. We are just much further along in life and development than this single cell is. Remember you once were a SINGLE CELL.

 

[OKgrannie]

These two cells that split have the chromosomes and the DNA inside of them make up this living being. I am sure you know what this means . . . This cell has the babies eye color, gender, temperment and every possible characteristic already residing within the cell. That is an amazing and a beautiful thing. If this cell is not alive, I dont know what is. We are just much further along in life and development than this single cell is. Remember you once were a SINGLE CELL.

I doubt a woman suffering from morning sickness (which can last all day) and extreme fatigue and looking forward to having her body ripped apart by childbirth is thinking too much about the amazingness and beautifulness of that dividing cell.

 

[viteza]

Thats funny, every married woman that I have spoken too while they were pregnant say, "Yeah I get sick." On the other hand though, all of them say its the best experience of their life, being able to feel life growing inside of them. Thats why they cry with joy when they get their first ultrasound, or when they get to listen to its heartbeat. Its pathetic if someone can say, im scared to get "Ripped Apart" I have never in my life heard a woman who was pregnant phrase it like that. Maybe you might say that, if all you careabout is yourself and dont care about anything else. For every woman though who actually wanted a child, and gave birth to one, I highly doubt they ever complained about your so called "Getting Torn Apart".

 

[mac]

I doubt a woman suffering from morning sickness (which can last all day) and extreme fatigue and looking forward to having her body ripped apart by childbirth is thinking too much about the amazingness and beautifulness of that dividing cell.

Fortunately for the species....not all women are as selfish as you like to indicate.

 

[majora$$hole]

These two cells that split have the chromosomes and the DNA inside of them make up this living being. I am sure you know what this means . . . This cell has the babies eye color, gender, temperment and every possible characteristic already residing within the cell. That is an amazing and a beautiful thing. If this cell is not alive, I dont know what is. We are just much further along in life and development than this single cell is. Remember you once were a SINGLE CELL.

so using this logic the law shouldn't consider someone dead until ALL of their cells have completely decomposed and no life exitsts?

 

[OKgrannie]

Thats funny, every married woman that I have spoken too while they were pregnant say, "Yeah I get sick." On the other hand though, all of them say its the best experience of their life, being able to feel life growing inside of them. Thats why they cry with joy when they get their first ultrasound, or when they get to listen to its heartbeat. Its pathetic if someone can say, im scared to get "Ripped Apart" I have never in my life heard a woman who was pregnant phrase it like that. Maybe you might say that, if all you careabout is yourself and dont care about anything else. For every woman though who actually wanted a child, and gave birth to one, I highly doubt they ever complained about your so called "Getting Torn Apart".

You know I didn't think about it like that when I was pregnant either, but it is an accurate description. Except for those women, 50% of them in some hospitals, who end up having C-sections and are therefore "cut apart." You don't like the description because you want to minimize the effects of pregnancy/childbirth on the woman. A woman who actually wanted a child won't complain, abortion is for women who don't want one or don't want a pregnancy at that time.