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Abortion insanity

screenwriter

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I guess if you consider feeding and housing your family, holding a job, meeting your obligations to others as "lifestyle," sure. If you dont find those things important, that's up to you 🤷

Most people do.

"Human life cycle" Huh, sounds like you are looking at microbes under a microscope.
I am a microbiologist as a matter of fact. Good call there. Thing about microbes - if they were found on Venus or Mars or the Moon even they would be proclaimed "life" on other "planets" but a beating heart isn't "life" here on Earth.
 

Logician Man

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I am a microbiologist as a matter of fact. Good call there. Thing about microbes - if they were found on Venus or Mars or the Moon even they would be proclaimed "life" on other "planets" but a beating heart isn't "life" here on Earth.
/// But a beating heart isn't "life" here on Earth. /// <---- Who has made this positive claim? Please present any/all posts in which any DP member here has ever put forth such a positive claim. Thanks in advance.
 

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I am a microbiologist as a matter of fact. Good call there. Thing about microbes - if they were found on Venus or Mars or the Moon even they would be proclaimed "life" on other "planets" but a beating heart isn't "life" here on Earth.
Maybe. But the moon isn't a planet.
 

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I guess if you consider feeding and housing your family, holding a job, meeting your obligations to others as "lifestyle," sure. If you dont find those things important, that's up to you 🤷

Most people do.

"Human life cycle" Huh, sounds like you are looking at microbes under a microscope.
I am a microbiologist as a matter of fact. Good call there. Thing about microbes - if they were found on Venus or Mars or the Moon even they would be proclaimed "life" on other "planets" but a beating heart isn't "life" here on Earth.
So once again, deflection, not discussion. Were you going to acknowledge the rest of the post? Do you think it's important for people to make sure they can remain responsible to uphold the obligations of 'their lifestyles' as you put it?

(Er, and using birth control as most couples do certainly shows that intent, so dont bother going there)

And btw, I loved micro so much in college that I've been studying epidemiology as a layperson for 25 years.
 

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I am a microbiologist as a matter of fact. Good call there. Thing about microbes - if they were found on Venus or Mars or the Moon even they would be proclaimed "life" on other "planets" but a beating heart isn't "life" here on Earth.
A fetus is life. A fertilized egg is life. A sperm is life. A single sponge cell is life and pro-choice advocates understand that abortion ends life.

Morality deals with the here and now: how the already here live their lives and treat others now born. If, as pro-life advocates claim, all life has a right to live then the lives of the already born have a right to life also. And if their lives will be effected in ways that are incalculably harmful then giving birth to an unplanned and unwanted child that will destroy their lives is immoral.
 

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So once again, deflection, not discussion. Were you going to acknowledge the rest of the post? Do you think it's important for people to make sure they can remain responsible to uphold the obligations of 'their lifestyles' as you put it?

(Er, and using birth control as most couples do certainly shows that intent, so dont bother going there)

And btw, I loved micro so much in college that I've been studying epidemiology as a layperson for 25 years.
H
"most couples" use birth control? Yet where is the FDA doing recalls of all these defective products? Where are all the lawsuits for people who have used these defective products - tort attorneys should be lining up to take those cases.

So morality deals with hear and now. That makes everything we do "moral" - everything. Murder, pollution, child labor, drugs abuse - all of it good or bad has just been proclaimed "moral". Forget the future and the message you're sending to the generations to follow. People in Greek times threw babies into pits. That's moral too because it only improved the lifestyle of the mother.

All I'm asking for is a respect for human life. That extends beyond any one woman but everyone. How anyone deals with the future needs to be something of thought beforehand - Planned - you know that word.

Yes, nothing better than an armchair epidemiologist - is there?
 

Logician Man

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"most couples" use birth control? Yet where is the FDA doing recalls of all these defective products? Where are all the lawsuits for people who have used these defective products - tort attorneys should be lining up to take those cases.

So morality deals with hear and now. That makes everything we do "moral" - everything. Murder, pollution, child labor, drugs abuse - all of it good or bad has just been proclaimed "moral". Forget the future and the message you're sending to the generations to follow. People in Greek times threw babies into pits. That's moral too because it only improved the lifestyle of the mother.

All I'm asking for is a respect for human life. That extends beyond any one woman but everyone. How anyone deals with the future needs to be something of thought beforehand - Planned - you know that word.

Yes, nothing better than an armchair epidemiologist - is there?
A LOT of BS put forth in your post above. At the top of the list is " Murder is moral."
 

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"most couples" use birth control? Yet where is the FDA doing recalls of all these defective products? Where are all the lawsuits for people who have used these defective products - tort attorneys should be lining up to take those cases.
Since when is a ~98% efficacy 'defective?' We'd have almost no products if 100% effective was the standard. That's ridiculous.

You have ignored the math provided to you on this that is very clear...showing how many accidental pregnancies still result. Why do you ignore it? Your current observation about legal action is a non-starter.

So morality deals with hear and now. That makes everything we do "moral" - everything. Murder, pollution, child labor, drugs abuse - all of it good or bad has just been proclaimed "moral". Forget the future and the message you're sending to the generations to follow. People in Greek times threw babies into pits. That's moral too because it only improved the lifestyle of the mother.
The here and now of a woman/couple being able to feed and house their family, hold a job, meet obligations to others...nothing illegal or immoral about those. They are actually moral actions. Your silly hyperbole is noted and dismissed.

If the woman prioritizes those things over that unborn...that's completely moral. Who else can decide that for her? No one. It would be immoral to remove her options to do so and also thus to force her to remain pregnant against her will. That is horrifically immoral, certainly no moral High Ground is found there.

All I'm asking for is a respect for human life. That extends beyond any one woman but everyone. How anyone deals with the future needs to be something of thought beforehand - Planned - you know that word.
I've posted many times that while I value the unborn, I value all born people more.

And legally and morally, they cannot be treated equally. In any govt obligations to protect them, one would have to supersede the other. (and does...it protects women's Const rights) If they can be treated equally, please explain how.

Yes, nothing better than an armchair epidemiologist - is there?
No worse than an armchair pregnant woman telling others what to sacrifice.

I do love the field tho.
 

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"most couples" use birth control? Yet where is the FDA doing recalls of all these defective products? Where are all the lawsuits for people who have used these defective products - tort attorneys should be lining up to take those cases.
So morality deals with hear and now. That makes everything we do "moral" - everything. Murder, pollution, child labor, drugs abuse - all of it good or bad has just been proclaimed "moral". Forget the future and the message you're sending to the generations to follow. People in Greek times threw babies into pits. That's moral too because it only improved the lifestyle of the mother.
All I'm asking for is a respect for human life. That extends beyond any one woman but everyone. How anyone deals with the future needs to be something of thought beforehand - Planned - you know that word. Yes, nothing better than an armchair epidemiologist - is there?
Everyone is free to choose their personal morality and I actually have no legitimate reason to change what you believe. Your personal beliefs don't hurt anyone, unless you want to pass laws so all women are required to live by your personal beliefs. Keeping abortion legal in no way forces you to do anything against your beliefs. It simply allows other women to make different personal choice, a choice that is wrong for you but sensible for them.

We're not going to change each other and differences of opinions are OK so we really have nothing to argue about, unless you are trying to make abortions Illegal .........then ...... I'll see you in court!
 

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Everyone is free to choose their personal morality and I actually have no legitimate reason to change what you believe. Your personal beliefs don't hurt anyone, unless you want to pass laws so all women are required to live by your personal beliefs. Keeping abortion legal in no way forces you to do anything against your beliefs. It simply allows other women to make different personal choice, a choice that is wrong for you but sensible for them.

We're not going to change each other and differences of opinions are OK so we really have nothing to argue about, unless you are trying to make abortions Illegal .........then ...... I'll see you in court!
I see your another supporter of everything is moral. Got it. So much easier to go with the animal side than to even attempt to be civilized humans. Isn't it?
 

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I see your another supporter of everything is moral. Got it. So much easier to go with the animal side than to even attempt to be civilized humans. Isn't it?
Nope you thinking you have the right to force women to do something against their best interest and you think somehow you have the right to decide what women can do with their body's, is not moral, so no everything isn't moral.
 

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Let me see , making abortion illegal will cause more deaths and there will be the same amoiunt of abortions, but doing it will make so you people can kill a few women and newborns in back alley abortions. That seems to be the only outcome of doing it your way.
 

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Nope you thinking you have the right to force women to do something against their best interest and you think somehow you have the right to decide what women can do with their body's, is not moral, so no everything isn't moral.
So anything that I "feel" is against my own best interest - I should be allowed to do? Wow, now that is a flood gate if ever there was one.

At least you're willing to admit that abortion is ruled purely on narcissism - you do get points for that.
 

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So anything that I "feel" is against my own best interest - I should be allowed to do? Wow, now that is a flood gate if ever there was one.

At least you're willing to admit that abortion is ruled purely on narcissism - you do get points for that.
A display of ignorance is a response. God you are lucky you live in your make believe world because they real world wouldn't give you the time of day. Try throwing in some logic in your next attempt.
 

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A display of ignorance is a response. God you are lucky you live in your make believe world because they real world wouldn't give you the time of day. Try throwing in some logic in your next attempt.
Personal attacks - ah yes - the last bastion indeed. I live in a visionary world where people don't just live for themselves is all. Feel free to call it "make believe" if that appeases any conscious you may have. I know most don't share that but there are enough of us out here that some day we just very well may overcome the me-me-me-me-me mindset of "modern" man and bring forth a world where humans actually respect what it means to be human and the gift that is human reproduction. I just don't take it so lightly.
 

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Personal attacks - ah yes - the last bastion indeed. I live in a visionary world where people don't just live for themselves is all. Feel free to call it "make believe" if that appeases any conscious you may have. I know most don't share that but there are enough of us out here that some day we just very well may overcome the me-me-me-me-me mindset of "modern" man and bring forth a world where humans actually respect what it means to be human and the gift that is human reproduction. I just don't take it so lightly.
Won't even read it.
 

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Personal attacks - ah yes - the last bastion indeed.
My irony meter just exploded.

I live in a visionary world where people don't just live for themselves is all. Feel free to call it "make believe" if that appeases any conscious you may have. I know most don't share that but there are enough of us out here that some day we just very well may overcome the me-me-me-me-me mindset of "modern" man and bring forth a world where humans actually respect what it means to be human and the gift that is human reproduction. I just don't take it so lightly.
Human reproduction is not a "gift". It is biology, though if it were a "gift", gifts don't have to be accepted.
 

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Then give it back and be sterilized. That solves a lot of problems.
Your post suggests you don't think women are responsible about preventing unwanted pregnancies. 19.5% of all women between the ages of 15 and 45 use sterilization as birth control. 11.8% use the IUD. 8,8% use hormone implants. The risk of pregnancy factor for these 3 BC methods is less than .8%. So 40% of all women are being responsible about using highly effective BC. 22% of women because of poverty or male demands depend on male controlled BC that has a risk factor of about 22%. 20% of women depend on the pill with a risk factor of 9%. When women have access to effective BC they use it.

There are unfortunately 10% of women in the childbearing bracket that do not want to be pregnant but do not use birth control and simply hope for the best. These are largely teens that have not had comprehensive sex ed or have had abstinence only sex ed and believe all sorts of myths about getting pregnant. Their risk of pregnancy rate is about 85% .If you want to cut down on abortions this is the group we need to be addressing.
 

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Your post suggests you don't think women are responsible about preventing unwanted pregnancies. 19.5% of all women between the ages of 15 and 45 use sterilization as birth control. 11.8% use the IUD. 8,8% use hormone implants. The risk of pregnancy factor for these 3 BC methods is less than .8%. So 40% of all women are being responsible about using highly effective BC. 22% of women because of poverty or male demands depend on male controlled BC that has a risk factor of about 22%. 20% of women depend on the pill with a risk factor of 9%. When women have access to effective BC they use it.

There are unfortunately 10% of women in the childbearing bracket that do not want to be pregnant but do not use birth control and simply hope for the best. These are largely teens that have not had comprehensive sex ed or have had abstinence only sex ed and believe all sorts of myths about getting pregnant. Their risk of pregnancy rate is about 85% .If you want to cut down on abortions this is the group we need to be addressing.
If they were doing all you say they are doing - then we wouldn't have the abortion rate we do. You can take on a less careful approach when you can always abort the little bugger. Right?

The demographic with the highest abortion rate is the 20's and not teens. I think the education process should begin long before teen years - teaching human reproduction in honesty. But then, I grew up on a farm so I understood the real details about reproduction long before I set foot in health class. Females were bred by the males, became pregnant, then delivered the offspring. It wasn't something beyond the realm of comprehension to me and I was capable of extrapolating at a very young age that this also applied to humans as well.
 

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Then give it back and be sterilized. That solves a lot of problems.
This has been said before, do you not read the posts? It's next to impossible, if not impossible, for a woman under a certain age or who doesn't have children to get a tubal ligation. smh
 

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If they were doing all you say they are doing - then we wouldn't have the abortion rate we do. You can take on a less careful approach when you can always abort the little bugger. Right?

The abortion rate is quite low, given the number of sex acts that take place in a year.
 

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.....The demographic with the highest abortion rate is the 20's and not teens. I think the education process should begin long before teen years - teaching human reproduction in honesty.
.
It depends on what is taken into consideration when making the calculations.
"Abortions in relation to age, coital frequency, and fecundity:Abstract.......This article addresses the question of age variations in abortions. ……. the abortion rate is highly related to age; except for the youngest age group, ….Younger women have much higher age-and-coitus-specific abortion rates than older women when coital frequency is considered. ….…..When an adjustment for coital frequency and fecundity is combined, the differences between the age classes change considerably. Among all women, i.e., non-married and marrieds, teenagers have a very high abortion rate, while other women differ much less"……. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3800641/

And you are right useful, honest intelligent sex ed should start long before the teen years. Unfortunately the same states that restrict sex-ed to abstinence only also restrict access to clinics that provide women's controlled contraceptives and family planning counseling. Many are in the process of calling most women's contraceptives abortifacients.

But then, I grew up on a farm so I understood the real details about reproduction long before I set foot in health class. Females were bred by the males, became pregnant, then delivered the offspring. It wasn't something beyond the realm of comprehension to me and I was capable of extrapolating at a very young age that this also applied to humans as well.
I grew up in a suburb of NYC. My parents were permanently reluctant to talk about sex. I was told that children were born only after marriage. Puzzled, I asked if birds got married and was told firmly "Yes". I remember thinking that was a very silly answer.
 

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It depends on what is taken into consideration when making the calculations.
"Abortions in relation to age, coital frequency, and fecundity:Abstract.......This article addresses the question of age variations in abortions. ……. the abortion rate is highly related to age; except for the youngest age group, ….Younger women have much higher age-and-coitus-specific abortion rates than older women when coital frequency is considered. ….…..When an adjustment for coital frequency and fecundity is combined, the differences between the age classes change considerably. Among all women, i.e., non-married and marrieds, teenagers have a very high abortion rate, while other women differ much less"……. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3800641/

And you are right useful, honest intelligent sex ed should start long before the teen years. Unfortunately the same states that restrict sex-ed to abstinence only also restrict access to clinics that provide women's controlled contraceptives and family planning counseling. Many are in the process of calling most women's contraceptives abortifacients.


I grew up in a suburb of NYC. My parents were permanently reluctant to talk about sex. I was told that children were born only after marriage. Puzzled, I asked if birds got married and was told firmly "Yes". I remember thinking that was a very silly answer.
I took it from the CDC website.

Oh yes, the nanny state. I did forget about that and the absolute dependence on it. Can't have parents teaching children - as they would be in my visionary world, they might not be taught from the manifesto.

You admit your parents failed you but do you step up and offer parents assistance to help them based on your experience?

That's what I'm asking of people - take ownership. It's hard. So much easier to blame blame blame someone/something else.
 
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