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Abortion...Her choice

vallejo

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Don't get me wrong folks, I'm no feminist. However, that doesn't mean I treat women like ****, and I feel that they should get their own say regarding their bodies. When a baby is still inside the mother's womb, it is not yet concious. Therefore, it is just a "mindless body" until it comes out and has it's mind branded with ideas. It is a part of the woman's body, she should be the one to choose whether to keep it or not. If you were a rape-victim, would you want to have an illegimate child? If you get pregnant on accident when you are only 15, would you like to drop out of school to raise the baby? In our democracy, we obviously have laws and guidelines, but abortion should be a choice made as a human being, a choice on morality and how it may be outweighed by neccessity. Abortion should NOT be illegal in the United States.
 

vallejo

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Nobody Has Anything To Say?
 

steen

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Your points generally are appropriate, other than the developmental stage "baby" doesn't begin until after birth.
 

Elektra

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I agree. My right over my own body is greater than anybody's right to become a life being.
 

BJHOUGH

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vallejo said:
Don't get me wrong folks, I'm no feminist. However, that doesn't mean I treat women like ****, and I feel that they should get their own say regarding their bodies. When a baby is still inside the mother's womb, it is not yet concious. Therefore, it is just a "mindless body" until it comes out and has it's mind branded with ideas. It is a part of the woman's body, she should be the one to choose whether to keep it or not. If you were a rape-victim, would you want to have an illegimate child? If you get pregnant on accident when you are only 15, would you like to drop out of school to raise the baby? In our democracy, we obviously have laws and guidelines, but abortion should be a choice made as a human being, a choice on morality and how it may be outweighed by neccessity. Abortion should NOT be illegal in the United States.
I QUOTE----ITIS JUST TO BAD THAT THESE[ WOMEN????WHO ABORT HELPLESS BABIES-]--ALL I CAN SAY IS IWOULD OF LIKED TO SEE THEIR MOM TO HAVE ABORTED THEM,AND THEN WE WOULD NOT OF HAD THESE LAZY,CARELESS SOOOOOO CALL FEAMALES,TRASHING THIS GREAT EARTH???
 

George_Washington

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vallejo said:
Don't get me wrong folks, I'm no feminist. However, that doesn't mean I treat women like ****, and I feel that they should get their own say regarding their bodies. When a baby is still inside the mother's womb, it is not yet concious. Therefore, it is just a "mindless body" until it comes out and has it's mind branded with ideas. It is a part of the woman's body, she should be the one to choose whether to keep it or not. If you were a rape-victim, would you want to have an illegimate child? If you get pregnant on accident when you are only 15, would you like to drop out of school to raise the baby? In our democracy, we obviously have laws and guidelines, but abortion should be a choice made as a human being, a choice on morality and how it may be outweighed by neccessity. Abortion should NOT be illegal in the United States.
I can see abortion in cases of rape but otherwise it makes no sense to me. If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant while having sex then she should use birth control pills. Terminating a life because she didn't take personal responsiblity is illogical.
 

Felicity

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George_Washington said:
I can see abortion in cases of rape but otherwise it makes no sense to me. If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant while having sex then she should use birth control pills. Terminating a life because she didn't take personal responsiblity is illogical.
I just can't see the logic in terminating in the case of rape. I truly understand the trauma, but I just can't get around the execution of the innocent human created from the assault. He's a victim too--and you can't logically give the victim of the crime a death sentence while the guilty party only gets hard time, if that.

I understand the emotions and the burden on the woman who was raped, but it doesn't justify killing the innocent.
 

George_Washington

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Felicity said:
I just can't see the logic in terminating in the case of rape. I truly understand the trauma, but I just can't get around the execution of the innocent human created from the assault. He's a victim too--and you can't logically give the victim of the crime a death sentence while the guilty party only gets hard time, if that.

I understand the emotions and the burden on the woman who was raped, but it doesn't justify killing the innocent.
You do have a good point there. It's something I've been pondering.
 

vallejo

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Well, I don't think one can truly be "innocent" if they don't even yet exist. They have no morality yet, morality comes with a mind. Before the infant it born, it is more like a simple organism than an actual creature that we would consider for the definition of a "person." These are just my feelings, I'm not telling anyone what to believe.
 

Fantasea

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vallejo[quote said:
When a baby is still inside the mother's womb, it is not yet concious. Therefore, it is just a "mindless body" until it comes out and has it's mind branded with ideas. It is a part of the woman's body, she should be the one to choose whether to keep it or not.
I don't know where you get your information, but these learned folks disagree with you. What do you think of that?

Life Issues
When Human Life Begins

ABSTRACT. The American College of Pediatricians concurs with the body of scientific evidence that human life begins at conception—fertilization. This definition has been expounded since prior to Roe v. Wade, but was not made available to the US Supreme Court in 1973. Scientific and medical discoveries over the past three decades have only verified and solidified this age-old truth. At the completion of the process of fertilization, the human creature emerges as a whole, genetically distinct, individuated zygotic living human organism, a member of the species homo sapiens, needing only the proper environment in order to grow and develop. The difference between the individual in its adult stage and in its zygotic stage is not one of personhood but of development. The Mission of the American College of Pediatricians is to enable all children to reach their optimal physical and emotional health and well-being from the moment of conception. This statement reviews some of the associated historical, ethical and philosophical issues.

Remainder of the statement: http://acpeds.org/index.cgi?CONTEXT=art&cat=10007&art=53&BISKIT=4278471778
 

vallejo

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Okay, so if some crack head woman gets raped and is against abortion, would you like her to have the child? Isn't it more cruel to kill the baby at that part of its life? Am I not entitled to my own opinions?
 

Fantasea

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vallejo said:
Okay, so if some crack head woman gets raped and is against abortion, would you like her to have the child? Isn't it more cruel to kill the baby at that part of its life? Am I not entitled to my own opinions?
That's one of the benefits of living in the land of the free; anyone is entitled to express any opinion on any subject.

However, there is nothing one human can do to another that exceeds the cruelty in killing a human being at any "part of its life". I see no justice in killing the baby for the actions of its mother.

A BBC reporter did some research on bastards, which he defines as children born entirely out of wedlock or whose conception resulted in "shotgun" weddings. The names he mentions are quite surprising and the list contains a number whose contributions to their fellow men turned out to be quite significant. Had they all been aborted, the world, as we know it, would be quite different.

It makes an interesting read: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A872408
 

getinvolved

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I think that what it comes down to is that many people view "pro-choice" as pro-abortion. I am whole-heartedly pro-choice...and I am just that pro-choice. When the decision needs to be made, I think it should be made by the woman who will be carrying the child.

If you disagree with abortion, then don't have one. If you think people who have abortions are wrong, then let them be judged later on. Banning abortions will not put an end to them. Make your own choices and allow other to make theirs.
 

Fantasea

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getinvolved said:
I think that what it comes down to is that many people view "pro-choice" as pro-abortion. I am whole-heartedly pro-choice...and I am just that pro-choice. When the decision needs to be made, I think it should be made by the woman who will be carrying the child.

If you disagree with abortion, then don't have one. If you think people who have abortions are wrong, then let them be judged later on. Banning abortions will not put an end to them. Make your own choices and allow other to make theirs.
Substitute the word "slavery" in your comments and you have the exact argument that many persons used in the 1860s.

"While I would never own slaves, I don't object to your owning them."

Without a doubt, slavery was a horror but it left life intact. Abortion is worse because it kills each and every unborn child who is subjected to it.

Your words indicate that you understand that a child is involved. Has the life of this child no value? Should it be killed simply because it showed up in the womb at an inopportune time?

All else aside, do you believe that the number of abortions would be approaching fifty million since 1973 if the practice had not been legalized?
 

getinvolved

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Fantasea said:
Substitute the word "slavery" in your comments and you have the exact argument that many persons used in the 1860s.

"While I would never own slaves, I don't object to your owning them."

Without a doubt, slavery was a horror but it left life intact. Abortion is worse because it kills each and every unborn child who is subjected to it.

Your words indicate that you understand that a child is involved. Has the life of this child no value? Should it be killed simply because it showed up in the womb at an inopportune time?

All else aside, do you believe that the number of abortions would be approaching fifty million since 1973 if the practice had not been legalized?

You have got to be kidding me. You are now making the comparision between slavery and abortion?

Until you are in a position to have to make the decision, you have no idea the feeling and emotions that must go into it. You want trust a woman to have a child when you will not even trust her to decide?

As to your question about the number of abortions. No, there would not have been 50 million legal abortions. There would, however have been millions of back-ally abortions, abandoned babies, children growing up with unfit and unloving parents.

The idea of abortion may be one that you think is wrong or immoral. But it is one that gives woman a choice. The choice that they choose to make beyond that is theirs to make. The circunstances that lead to this decision are personal and private. You make your choices, I'll make mine, and they'll make theirs. And when all is said and done judgement will be made by a higher power.
 

FutureIncoming

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Hello, all!!

I see folks here arguing over some of the same things that have been thrashed out in the "Explain Your Reasoning" Message Thread. I INVITE ALL PRO-CHOICE WRITERS in this forum to copy/paste/use in this Thread and others, any/all of the large amount of data which I have posted in that Thread. You will find MANY things there which NO pro-life writer has been able to refute with facts. Instead they try to ignore the facts, or cover them over with unfounded beliefs. Lies have been exposed; they have not posted one single argument against abortion there which has not been utterly demolished. Should they happen to present something new there, I wll remain alert to demolish it, also. I do not have the time to duplicate my efforts there, in this and other Message Threads, and so that is why I am waiving any claim to copyright of my postings. We need to take this victory and spread it throughout all abortion debate forums nationwide, so that not even a fully Conservative Supreme Court can ignore it.
Thank you!
 

Fantasea

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getinvolved said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasea
Substitute the word "slavery" in your comments and you have the exact argument that many persons used in the 1860s.


"While I would never own slaves, I don't object to your owning them."

Without a doubt, slavery was a horror but it left life intact. Abortion is worse because it kills each and every unborn child who is subjected to it.

Your words indicate that you understand that a child is involved. Has the life of this child no value? Should it be killed simply because it showed up in the womb at an inopportune time?

All else aside, do you believe that the number of abortions would be approaching fifty million since 1973 if the practice had not been legalized?
You have got to be kidding me. You are now making the comparision between slavery and abortion?
I never kid about abortion. As bad as slavery was, slaves were too valuable to be killed.
Until you are in a position to have to make the decision, you have no idea the feeling and emotions that must go into it. You want trust a woman to have a child when you will not even trust her to decide?
Until economics and modern medicine joined forces to create an industry with revenues of a half trillion dollars annually, women seemed to manage motherhood, in all circumstances, quite well.
As to your question about the number of abortions. No, there would not have been 50 million legal abortions. There would, however have been millions of back-ally abortions,
Estimates prior to Roe v. Wade never exceeded ten thousand a year. The term "back-alley" referred to the fact that pregnant women seeking abortions didn't enter and leave through the front door, but, for privacy, used the back door, which often opened on the alley behind the building. (You didn't think the procedure was carried out on top of a garbage can, did you?
to the the abandoned babies, children growing up with unfit and unloving parents.
What's wrong with adoption as an alternative to death?
The idea of abortion may be one that you think is wrong or immoral.
Immorality has nothing to do with it. One human should not have the power to take the life of another.
But it is one that gives woman a choice.
What choice? The unborn child is alive, and left undisturbed will continue to live. The only choice, if that's what you wish to call it, is to kill the child. Sonme choice.
The choice that they choose to make beyond that is theirs to make. The circunstances that lead to this decision are personal and private. You make your choices, I'll make mine, and they'll make theirs. And when all is said and done judgement will be made by a higher power.
So far, that kind of rationalization has resulted in a pile of tiny corpses nearly fifty million high.

These days, the odds that a kid won't make it out of the womb, alive, are pretty high. Some almost make it but get knocked off with a partial-birth abortion, right near the "finish line".

For every two live births, there is one abortion.
 

Fantasea

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FutureIncoming said:
Hello, all!!

I see folks here arguing over some of the same things that have been thrashed out in the "Explain Your Reasoning" Message Thread. I INVITE ALL PRO-CHOICE WRITERS in this forum to copy/paste/use in this Thread and others, any/all of the large amount of data which I have posted in that Thread. You will find MANY things there which NO pro-life writer has been able to refute with facts. Instead they try to ignore the facts, or cover them over with unfounded beliefs. Lies have been exposed; they have not posted one single argument against abortion there which has not been utterly demolished. Should they happen to present something new there, I wll remain alert to demolish it, also. I do not have the time to duplicate my efforts there, in this and other Message Threads, and so that is why I am waiving any claim to copyright of my postings. We need to take this victory and spread it throughout all abortion debate forums nationwide, so that not even a fully Conservative Supreme Court can ignore it.
Thank you!
Clutching at straws as you feel yourself sinking, I see.

I wonder how many will heed your cries for help.

If you disagree, then:

1. Post factual information from a recognized scientific, medical, obstetric, fetology, or genetic source which denies that human life begins at conception.

2. Post factual information from a recognized scientific, medical, obstetric, fetology, or genetic source which affirms the concept of personhood which claims that some unborn children are persons and some unborn children are non-persons.

3. Post factual information from a recognized scientific, medical, obstetric, fetology, or genetic source which justifies the aborting of nearly fifty million unborn children since Roe v. Wade.

4. Cite some of the lies to which you refer.

5. Cite some of your statements, which you consider factual, which have not been refuted, or as you say, "demolished".

Copyrighted posts? :rofl
 

steen

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Fantasea said:
I see no justice in killing the baby for the actions of its mother.
But then, there isn't any "baby" until birth anyway.
 

steen

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Fantasea said:
Your words indicate that you understand that a child is involved. Has the life of this child no value? Should it be killed simply because it showed up in the womb at an inopportune time?
There is no child until birth. Your revisionist linguistic, prolife hyperbole doesn't cover up that fact.
 

steen

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Fantasea said:
What choice? The unborn child is alive,
\Unborn child? AH, like "pre-dead corpse"?
and left undisturbed will continue to live.
No, left alone, it would shrivel up and die. Only through the use of the woman's bodily resources can it continue its existence. And if these resources are used against the woman's wishes, then she is enslaved.
..Some almost make it but get knocked off with a partial-birth abortion, right near the "finish line".
More prolife lies. What you so lyingly call "pba" is a second-trimester medical procedure. Why is it that prolifers can't make their arguments without lies? is it because your entire movement is based on lies?
 

Fantasea

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steen said:
But then, there isn't any "baby" until birth anyway.
Perhaps, one day, you will come around to twenty-first century thinking.
 

steen

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Fantasea said:
Perhaps, one day, you will come around to twenty-first century thinking.
Ah, more claptrap lies to hide that when you claim biological facts, you are IN FACT lying every time.
 

Fantasea

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steen said:
There is no child until birth. Your revisionist linguistic, prolife hyperbole doesn't cover up that fact.
:2rofll:
:sword:​
:rofl​
 

Fantasea

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steen said:
Ah, more claptrap lies to hide that when you claim biological facts, you are IN FACT lying every time.
:applaud TRAP
:applaud TRAP​
:applaud TRAP​
 
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