Abortian and Original Sin

[ScottMarian]

Steen
Tell me where in the Bible does it say only what is written in the Bible is the only revealed word of God? Or perhaps you can show me where Jesus said only what is written is the only revealed word of God.

In Matthew 23:3 Jesus in fact said the opposite. He said to listen to the pharisees for they had the words of life. In short to uphold oral tradition.

Steen it is good to see that you do not dispute that the Apostles wrote the Didache or that it teaches directly against abortion. Yet, tell me how do you claim to be a Christian if you hold a position directly contrary to the teaching of the Apostles?

Vergiss just as there are many branches in Judaism from the reformed to the orthodox. There are many branches of Christianity. You are taking the fifth point of calvinism and attributing it to the entire Christian Church. Calvinism is not even fully accepted within protestant circles.

 

[steen]

Steen
Tell me where in the Bible does it say only what is written in the Bible is the only revealed word of God? Or perhaps you can show me where Jesus said only what is written is the only revealed word of God.

Huh? I don't understand your question. The Bible is God's word, God's message to us. Now you are saying that some OTHER text from somewhere is also God's word? And next? The Gnostic bible is God's word? And the writings of whatever munk from the 11th century is God's word? And whatever newage religious writing is also the word of God? Sure gets confusing, especially when all these non-biblical texts contradicts the Bible and each other.

So what is the reason for claiming that anything other than the Bible is God's word? I am mighty curious to see why you feel this!

In Matthew 23:3 Jesus in fact said the opposite. He said to listen to the pharisees for they had the words of life. In short to uphold oral tradition.

So when oral tradition contradicts the Bible, we are to.... ? Huh? Oh perhaps turn schizophrenic?

Steen it is good to see that you do not dispute that the Apostles wrote the Didache or that it teaches directly against abortion.

I have no clue WHAT the didache is, so I have also no clue who wrote it. Yes, very likely it speaks against abortion. So does a lot of other stuff, just like a lot of stuff speaks for abortion rights. So what? Should this in any way mean anything to me? Whatever some text somewhere said has little bearing on me. Is it the Bible or not, is it the words of Jesus or not?

Yet, tell me how do you claim to be a Christian if you hold a position directly contrary to the teaching of the Apostles?

I hold a position directly in line with the teachings of Jesus, that is how. Why do you follow the apostles instead of Jesus? Are you a Paulian in stead of a Christian?

Vergiss just as there are many branches in Judaism from the reformed to the orthodox. There are many branches of Christianity. You are taking the fifth point of calvinism and attributing it to the entire Christian Church. Calvinism is not even fully accepted within protestant circles.

Neither is this didache you are rambling about. So I guess you just sunk your above argument.

 

[ScottMarian]

Steen
There are other writings accepted by Protestants, Catholics and the Orthodox written by the Apostles. Being poorly read and not knowing the other writings of the Church fathers does not demonstrate any intellect. I suggest you read a lot more. Calvinism on the other hand did not occur until about 1545. Today the Presbyterians and Baptists accept it. John knox, the founder of the Presbyterians, as you well know left Scotland after he murdered Cardinal Beacon and studied under Calvin. So to equate John Calvin's writings to the Apostles just demonstrates your simple uneducated mind.
Oral tradition in the Jewish faith and the Christian faith does not create new rules. It merely enforces or explains existing ones. In the Jewish faith the sin offering had to be given by the Pharisees not from the Torah. Thus we see Jesus commanding the Jews to listen to them in matthew 23:3.
OK I accept you are an uneducated kid who has no clue as to the writings of the Church fathers as to what is considered orthodox or heretical.
I guess your laughing at being uneducated demonstates your lack of intellect.

I do think the Bible is true. Yet it is not complete. Meaning there are other absolute truths not in the Bible. I mentioned G.K. Chesterton (1874-1936) and obviously that went over your head as well.

 

[Youve Got To Be Kidding!]

My first thought is actually a question which would shed quite a bit of light on this question. Very thought provoking question, even though I find it way out of context. But my question is what is your religion and what are your views on abortion and the death penalty. BTW, I am a Christian against abortion, and against the death penalty.

Wow not many of you left.

 

[steen]

Steen
There are other writings accepted by Protestants, Catholics and the Orthodox written by the Apostles.

If you say so. But again, what is this didache?

Other than that, your rant about ridiculing me, did you really think that helped any other than showing what an asshole you are? Must be a Catholic. (Oh, you didn't think that your behavior reflects on what you claim to stand for?)

I do think the Bible is true. Yet it is not complete. Meaning there are other absolute truths not in the Bible.

Yes, the Book of Mormons comes to mind as one such extra-Biblical text proclaimed to be from God's word.

I mentioned G.K. Chesterton (1874-1936) and obviously that went over your head as well.

Not at all. But unless he is God, why the irrelevant reference?

 

[ScottMarian]

Steen
You obviously are not bright. You equate the writings of the Apostles to Calvin. Now who in their right mind believes that baloney. You take commonly known heretical religions that even deny the basic tenants and somehow try to derive a comparison. No name calling and absolute nonsense comparisons shows me all I need to know about your intellectual capabilities or lack of them.

Steen Matthew 7:21 states" Not everyone who says to me , "Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven." Ultimate salvation and being with God is conditional in this verse and many others. Your arguments are made up and have no reason to normal or traditional Christianity. 1 Tim 3:15 The Church is the Pillar and foundation of truth. Now Which Church was being referenced? I have pointed out to you that the Apostles wrote against abortion. The magisterium which predates any protestant denomination speaks against abortion. Yet, you as a fake or pretend Christian advocate abortion. Guess again loser. You got a world of hurt waiting for you.

Spend some time reading and cease with your baloney posts.

 

[steen]

Steen
You obviously are not bright.

Ah, good one. Start with the ad hominem. You simply MUST be a conservative, right? I recognize that style anywhere. LAME

You equate the writings of the Apostles to Calvin.

Nope. Rather, I equate none of them with Jesus.

..No name calling and absolute nonsense comparisons shows me all I need to know about your intellectual capabilities or lack of them.

Oh, that's a new tactic. Stuffing ad hominems into the middle as well. Normally, Conservatives only spew them in the beginning and the end. Fascinating. Is it fair to say that conservatism thus is "mutating"? Are we going to see a new brand of conservatism, where the ad hominems increase in proportion to "normal" text? Are conservatives having even less meaningful to say.

Steen Matthew 7:21 states" Not everyone who says to me , "Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven."

And that doesn't include oppressing women.

Ultimate salvation and being with God is conditional in this verse and many others.

Yes, of course.

Your arguments are made up and have no reason to normal or traditional Christianity.

What narcissism. It fits fine with "normal or traditional" Christianity. It doesn't fit YOUR extremist fringe group, but that doesn't warrant your silly claim.

1 Tim 3:15 The Church is the Pillar and foundation of truth. Now Which Church was being referenced?{/quote]The Church of Jesus.

I have pointed out to you that the Apostles wrote against abortion.

Yes, you keep talking about some inconsequential text that is not even in the Bible. So?

The magisterium which predates any protestant denomination speaks against abortion.

And? Is it in the Bible, yes or no? BTW, the protestant Church arose to bring the Church BACK to Christ, from where the Catholics had yanked it away to personal political agendas. So?

Yet, you as a fake or pretend Christian advocate abortion.

Ah, you must mean as a non-Catholic. Yeah, sure "false" whatever, narcissistic extremist.

Guess again loser. You got a world of hurt waiting for you.

Why? Are you going to hurt me?

Spend some time reading and cease with your baloney posts.

AH, so you don't want me to write on a debate board where you write. Seems like I am getting to close for comfort. Sheesh!

 

[ScottMarian]

Steen
No I mean as a NON CHRISTIAN. One can not be a Christian and advocate abortion. Whatever, cult denomination you are in that teaches contrary to that viewpoint just demonstrates how extreme modern day cults have become.
My bet is you are a Jew with a name like steen only pretending to be a Christian. OH yeah you are only pretending to be a Christian. My error.

 

[steen]

Steen
No I mean as a NON CHRISTIAN.

But I AM a Christian, so your claim doesn't make sense.

One can not be a Christian and advocate abortion.

One can be Christian and advocate for the woman to have access to the choice of an abortion. I hope you will not be stupid about this and deliberately lie about pro-choice Christians, are you?

Whatever, cult denomination you are in

I am not in a cult, and I don't advocate abortions, and neither does my Church. Why the need to misrepresent me? Is your argument to weak to stand without ad hominems?

that teaches contrary to that viewpoint just demonstrates how extreme modern day cults have become.

Any reason for that BS babble?

My bet is you are a Jew

Nope.

with a name like steen

It is Danish. What makes you believe it to be jewish? Perhaps you are ignorant of typical names in foreign countries (Well, you must be. Why else such silly and stupid claims?)

only pretending to be a Christian.

Nope, I am a genuine Christian, growing up Christian and going to a Christian church. Why the weird rantings here?

OH yeah you are only pretending to be a Christian.

Nope.

My error.

In this post, yes most certainly.

 

[ScottMarian]

Steen
One last point. In my first post to you I asked where in the Bible it states that only what is in the Bible is the revealed word and no other Revelation of God is possible in any other writings. You ignored that altogether. Why? Now I only have six different Bibles and I thought that you had a new cult translation that I was unaware.

If you were to dispute the authorship of the Didache by the Apostles you would state your source. It is clear that no response indicates that you have no response because you have no argument. By ignoring my quote of Chesterton you recognize his argument that there are other revealed truths about God not in the Bible.

Your bizarre comparisons of cult Church's to the writings of the Apostles accepted by all just demonstrating how much of an extremist from main stream Christianity you have gone.

Your response to 1 Tim 3:15 is inadequate. "The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth." Truth little boy is singular. With the explosion of cults today everyone pretends they have a truth. Well then if that is true. Shouldn't truth be plural to meet your cults criteria.
NO THERE IS ONE TRUTH. It lies within the Church.

 

[ScottMarian]

Steen
Unfortunately, for you I am not lying. The Apostles did write against Abortion. You can not be an advocate for a abortion and be a Christian. To claim you are a Christian and advocate that position just makes you the liar. So you are a poorly read kid. Do you really think I care.

 

[steen]

If you were to dispute the authorship of the Didache by the Apostles you would state your source.

I frankly don't care. It is not in the Bible, though there certainly was the option of including it. Since it is not, it is not the Bible. case closed. We don't need to know anything else. The apostles wrote the gnostic Bible as well. Guess what, it is not part of the Bible. How many writings that are not part of the bible do you think we have to wade through before you figure out THAT THEY ARE NOT PART OF THE BIBLE?????

HOW dense are you about this?

It is clear that no response indicates that you have no response because you have no argument. By ignoring my quote of Chesterton you recognize his argument that there are other revealed truths about God not in the Bible.

I don't accept your source. Extra-Biblical references trying to claim that extra-Biblical sources are part of the Bibole carries no weight whatsoever with me.

Your bizarre comparisons of cult Church's to the writings of the Apostles accepted by all just demonstrating how much of an extremist from main stream Christianity you have gone.

Ah, now I get what you are saying. because I rely on the Bible instead of a whole bunch of other stuff for what God's word is, I am an extremist from mainstream Christianity. Yup, yeah, sure, whatever. :roll:

Your response to 1 Tim 3:15 is inadequate. "The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth." Truth little boy is singular. With the explosion of cults today everyone pretends they have a truth.

Like those who claim that sources outside of the Bible are Biblical. yes, like what you advocate. Sure.

Well then if that is true. Shouldn't truth be plural to meet your cults criteria.
NO THERE IS ONE TRUTH. It lies within the Church.

It lies within the BIBLE. That your church obviously have forsaken the Bible and apparently become Paulians or something like that instead of CHRISTians, well that is not my problem.

 

[steen]

Steen
Unfortunately, for you I am not lying.

Yes, you are. The Bible doesn't speak against abortion. You have to go to some extra-Biblical source that is not of Christ. As such, it is not CHRISTian.

The Apostles did write against Abortion.

And I don't care. I look to God, not to the Apostles.

You can not be an advocate for a abortion and be a Christian.

Sure I can You might not be an APOSTELian and be supportive of abortion rights, but Christ himself is not speaking against abortions.

To claim you are a Christian and advocate that position just makes you the liar.

Rather, you are bearing FALSE WITNES as to God's word.

So you are a poorly read kid. Do you really think I care.

LOL. More fundie cult yammering.

 

[ScottMarian]

The gnostic gospels were written at the end of the second century not the apostles. The books in the Bible are not all inclusive. You have nothing to support your statement that if it is not in the Bible it is not God inspired. You lose.

 

[steen]

The gnostic gospels were written at the end of the second century not the apostles.

Fascinating, as some of these gospels are indeed written by apostles. Why do you need to lie about this?

The books in the Bible are not all inclusive.

Sure they are, your silly claims none-withstanding.

 

[ScottMarian]

Steen
My poorly read debater. I suggest you go to equip.org a protestant site and type in gnostic gospels. They have one article dealing with the writing of these gospels and guess what they put the date about 200ad. Go to the site and read. We are not even debating the gnostic gospels. To me it just points out your lack of education.

 

[vergiss]

Yeah, because everyone who didn't have a Catholic education is uneducated. :roll:

 

[steen]

Yeah, because everyone who didn't have a Catholic education is uneducated. :roll:

Yes, because this fanatic, this spewer of irrelevant nonsense really isn;t worth our time

 

[Busta]

It is fair to say that many of the same Christians who are against abortion are also for the death penalty. The argument is that a fetus is an innocent human life and therefore should not be killed, where as the death row inmate has committed murder therefore deserving death. However, one of the key elements of Christianity is original sin, so if a fetus is a human being, then Christianity itself says that it cannot be innocent-it is born with the human stain. Therefore, IMHO the Christian idea that abortion is the killing of an innocent human life is inherently flawed, as in the eyes of Christianity you are born a sinner. Any thoughts?

I must say that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of Christianity. You say that it is fair to say that many of the same Christians who are against abortion are also for the death penalty? I would like to know what information brought you to that assumption. Any Christian who is for the death penalty is a moral hypocrite.

As for your attempt to place Original Sin on an unborn child, you overlooked one critical detail: the "human stain" of Original Sin is bestowed on a person upon birth. Those who are not yet born do not have this "human stain", and are innocent in all ways.

Therefore, the Christian idea that abortion is the killing of an innocent human life is not inherently flawed, since the unborn are not yet born into anything, let alone sin.