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Abiogenesis, evolution, God...

Did God create everything(universe, Earth, life ect.)?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 12.5%
  • No

    Votes: 11 68.8%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 3 18.8%

  • Total voters
    16

conserv.pat15

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Since the Evolution vs. Creationism in schools thread seems to be branching off into discussion of origin of life/evolution..... My question is did God create everything or not?
 

Kandahar

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No. Show me some empirical evidence to support this claim.
 

mixedmedia

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I voted no. Of course, I suppose for this poll to be effective it should have been posed to Christians only.
 

conserv.pat15

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I believe God did create everything. Theories such as abiogenesis and evolution have so many holes and impossibilities. Do any of you atheists have any proof that shows God can't exist?
 

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conserv.pat15 said:
Since the Evolution vs. Creationism in schools thread seems to be branching off into discussion of origin of life/evolution..... My question is did God create everything or not?
You seem to be asking whether or not "God" created everything, if it did not create everything then I would not think it to be "God".

You are assuming "God" exists.

Which "God" are you talking about? I assume the one in the Christain sense, am I wrong?
 

Kandahar

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conserv.pat15 said:
I believe God did create everything. Theories such as abiogenesis and evolution have so many holes and impossibilities.
No they don't. Stop lying. Evolution has very few holes and no impossibilities. There are some holes in the current abiogenesis hypotheses, but no impossibilities.

Compare this with the "God did it" hypothesis. It explains nothing, it means nothing, it is entirely untestable, and (if not impossible) certainly fits the definition of "impossibility" much better than evolution or abiogenesis.

conserv.pat15 said:
Do any of you atheists have any proof that shows God can't exist?
You're the one making the absurd claim. The burden of proof is on YOU. Can you prove that the universe doesn't rest on the back of a giant turtle? Does that mean it does?
 

Stace

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I voted maybe because it's rather hard to prove, especially when you can't prove the Christian God, or too many other gods from different religions for that matter, even exists.
 

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conserv.pat15 said:
Since the Evolution vs. Creationism in schools thread seems to be branching off into discussion of origin of life/evolution..... My question is did God create everything or not?

Only because religious zealots cannot understand the difference between evolution, abiogenesis, and basic cosmology.
 

steen

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conserv.pat15 said:
I believe God did create everything. Theories such as abiogenesis and evolution have so many holes and impossibilities.
Fundie creationists keep on claiming this, but show extreme ignorance and propensity to lie when challenged on these claims.
 

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conserv.pat15 said:
I believe God did create everything. Theories such as abiogenesis and evolution have so many holes and impossibilities. Do any of you atheists have any proof that shows God can't exist?

A classic example of two logical fallacies.

#1 The Appeal To Ignorance: I do not understand it, therefore god must have done it.

#2 Shifting The Burden Of Proof. I will claim god exists and since I have no evidence for that position, I will demand others disprove it.

Bzzzt, thank you for playing, but you just lost on Jeopardy. So badly we won;'t even give you any Rice-A-Roni.
 

conserv.pat15

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Kandahar said:
No they don't. Stop lying. Evolution has very few holes and no impossibilities. There are some holes in the current abiogenesis hypotheses, but no impossibilities.

Compare this with the "God did it" hypothesis. It explains nothing, it means nothing, it is entirely untestable, and (if not impossible) certainly fits the definition of "impossibility" much better than evolution or abiogenesis.



You're the one making the absurd claim. The burden of proof is on YOU. Can you prove that the universe doesn't rest on the back of a giant turtle? Does that mean it does?
Abiogenesis: Fact...living cells have never been created out of non-living material.

Evolution: Fact... this process needs millions of years in order to be correct. Because of the size of the sun, life could not have survived millions of years ago.

Those are just two facts that show abiogenesis and evolution to be false. There are many other facts that cause holes and impossibilities in those two theories.
 

libertarian_knight

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conserv.pat15 said:
Since the Evolution vs. Creationism in schools thread seems to be branching off into discussion of origin of life/evolution..... My question is did God create everything or not?
no. God is those things.
 

conserv.pat15

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steen said:
Fundie creationists keep on claiming this, but show extreme ignorance and propensity to lie when challenged on these claims.
If abiogenesis and evolution are found to be false(which I think they are), how was everything created?
 

libertarian_knight

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conserv.pat15 said:
Abiogenesis: Fact...living cells have never been created out of non-living material.

Evolution: Fact... this process needs millions of years in order to be correct. Because of the size of the sun, life could not have survived millions of years ago.

Those are just two facts that show abiogenesis and evolution to be false. There are many other facts that cause holes and impossibilities in those two theories.
Re: Abio: wrong. Never in a laboratory by human beings who've published their results.

Evo: huh? What was the sun too big then? or too small? or was it the same size, and something odd or different on earth? sheesh, can you be more vague? BTW, evolutionary processes needs generations, not years.
 

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conserv.pat15 said:
Abiogenesis: Fact...living cells have never been created out of non-living material.
So living cells have never been created out of nonliving material, because living cells have never been created out of nonliving material. Makes perfect sense. And by "perfect" I mean "not a damn bit of".

conserv.pat15 said:
Evolution: Fact... this process needs millions of years in order to be correct. Because of the size of the sun, life could not have survived millions of years ago.
This is so incredibly ignorant that I can't believe you would actually say this and expect others to respect your opinion of science. The sun has been pretty much the same size for over 4 BILLION years. "Millions of years" is a blink of an eye in cosmological terms.

conserv.pat15 said:
Those are just two facts that show abiogenesis and evolution to be false. There are many other facts that cause holes and impossibilities in those two theories.
The only holes are in your understanding of basic scientific facts. The only impossibilities are in your having a rational discussion instead of stubbornly clinging to uninformed opinions in the light of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
 

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conserv.pat15 said:
Abiogenesis: Fact...living cells have never been created out of non-living material.
Not in the lab anyway. And it also is not officially a Scientific Theory yet, still being at the Scientific Model stage.

Evolution: Fact... this process needs millions of years in order to be correct. Because of the size of the sun, life could not have survived millions of years ago.
A lie. Evolution happens from generation to generation. Once again, you show how truly ignorant you are of the topic you spew your lies about.

As for the silly claim about the sun, ....:roll: :rofl You forgot Moon dust, didn't you?

Those are just two facts that show abiogenesis and evolution to be false.
You have yet to provide complete facts and certainly enough information to warrant your lie that they are "false."

There are many other facts that cause holes and impossibilities in those two theories.
Abiogenesis is not yet a Scientific Theory, so even there are you spewing falsehood. As for the "many other facts" claim, you still have to actually show any that matter to begin with.

So you are again spewing ignorant falsehoods.
 

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conserv.pat15 said:
If abiogenesis and evolution are found to be false(which I think they are), how was everything created?
What you "think" is utterly irrelevant, as I already showed this to be based on your ignorance, falsehoods and lies.
 

conserv.pat15

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Steen, what is the origin of all life? Do you believe(from evidence you have seen) life came from non-living material? Fairly easy question... I mean, science knows all... this should be easy for them.
 

Tashah

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Abiogenesis is a conceptual proposal in much the same sense as Panspermia. Simply because Abiogenesis has yet to be artificially contrived in a laboratory does not infer that it is an impossibility. Mankind has yet to duplicate a black hole also... yet they certainly exist in the cosmos.

Evolution is an established theory well supported by all empirical evidence. Since our sun is at its half-life apex, its size has not significantly changed since initial ignition. I will also say that the presence of heavy elements in our solar system indicates that our sun is probably a 2nd generation local star.

Physics addresses the realm of the physical cosmos. Creationism is a faith-based initiative and resides in the philosophical/religious realm of the metaphysical. To posit Genesis to either realm with certainty is currently impossible and perhaps always will be.
 

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You have to be a fool to think that all this happened by accident........
 

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conserv.pat15 said:
Steen, what is the origin of all life? Do you believe(from evidence you have seen) life came from non-living material?
Given that this is a question completely outside the realm of Evolution, the evidence does point to the steps of Abiogenesis being feasible.

Wikipedia has been doing a good job at assembling the data int a readable summary here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_life#Current_models_of_the_origin_of_life

From what I have read, to me the Iron-sulfur mechanism of Abiogenesis as being the most likely, or rather the most influential, as it seems like there is evidence of all the researched processes as possibly been going on at the same time. It certainly is feasible, but we do not yet have any solid evidence of any kind, only feasibility studies.

Fairly easy question... I mean, science knows all... this should be easy for them.
What do you mean with "science knows all"? To me that sounds like absurd nonsense. Science knows what it has investigated, including what is found valid or invalid. The research into Abiogenesis is to costly and expensive and without any immediate financial outcome, so it really isn't that much of a priority in the science community.

What would you think is most important to fund? Research into a 3.8 bill. year process or immune reactions to bird flu, f.ex?
 

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Navy Pride said:
You have to be a fool to think that all this happened by accident........
But then, nobody in science has claimed that there was any "accident," so that is just an inanely ignorant remark :roll:
 

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conserv.pat15 said:
Steen, what is the origin of all life? Do you believe(from evidence you have seen) life came from non-living material? Fairly easy question... I mean, science knows all... this should be easy for them.
"Science" knows nothing, since science itself is not sentient. Science is a METHOD that Humans use to attain knowledge.

This should CLEARLY tell you something, that since men of science use science to attain knowledge, they can not and do not "know all." Otherwise, they would have had no need of science to attain knowledge.

That statement DOES NOT imply anything with respect to what is knowable and to what extent. It should NO way be taken that there are limits to scientific knowledge in either range, complete ignorance or complete knowledge.

Look man, the scientific method, as used today, has only been around for a very short while. What you are essentially doing is asking people who use science to provide all answers for all things, now. It's pretty lame behavior to ask such.

People who like and use science KNOW that they don't have all the answers, NOR do scientists actually clain that. Scientists know men are fallible. They also know, there is the possibility such answers will never be illuminated.

Religions and religious people, especially adherents of religions based on the concepts of sin and imperfection, seem awefully ready to dismiss human fallibility for "the answers."

If you will, God "gave" us reason, so we could learn how to fish, not to have men in positions of power and authority hand us fish.
 

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Navy Pride said:
You have to be a fool to think that all this happened by accident........
You'd have to be a complete arrogant fool to imagine $5 worth of water, carbon, oxygen and a few other elements make you important in the universe.
 

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Navy Pride said:
You have to be a fool to think that all this happened by accident........
Yes, you would. Good thing there is no scientific theory that advances this idea, then.
 
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