A win isn't always a win: Opinion on RBJ replacement.

[Fishking]

So for those who have been here a while know that I'm by no means a liberal, so I'm not coming at this from that perspective. My thoughts on this are the following:

When you bring up quotes from Democrats in 2016 saying that the appointment/vote should happen even in the last year of the presidency, but are saying differently now and saying that's hypocrisy. That's just not true. The appointment/vote did not happen for Obama so saying differently now is only bringing things back into balance.

Conversely, Mitch MConnell is a hypocrite because he had said that in the last year of a President the people should decide by voting. They did, indeed, not appoint Obama's nominee or even have a vote. He go his way. Now he wants it the other way now. He shouldn't get to have it both ways. Now, we all know that was an excuse, they should've just said, "We aren't going to appoint because we won't like any of his picks so we're going to wait." But that isn't what they said. Now, even if they had said that I'd still say this...

Even if Trump wins in 2020 I'd still not support him nominating a replacement for RBJ. I think in that instance The House should submit a list of names and they should figure out a replacement from the list. I believe our country is too close to the brink. A "win" now would just push us closer to that brink. I don't want our country to collapse and that is where we are heading if no one is going to take a step back. I also prefer the Supreme Court to be a balanced court, with a swing judge or two in the middle. A balanced court is a better court. We have too many examples of how too much ideological homogeneity on either said is not a good thing, on any side. It changes the metric of what is acceptable normal and what is not.

I don't know how much time we have left on our current path. A win here will hasten the loss, even if you think it's an unjust compromise.

 

[Chillfolks]

The house plays no role in the Supreme Court nomination process. If you would like to se that changed then you should write your congressional representative and get them to sponsor an amendment change. I'm not totally opposed to the idea of the House playing a role in the selection process and see how if the House is controlled by one party and the presidency by another it would force a comparamise.

 

[Slavister]

So for those who have been here a while know that I'm by no means a liberal, so I'm not coming at this from that perspective. My thoughts on this are the following:

When you bring up quotes from Democrats in 2016 saying that the appointment/vote should happen even in the last year of the presidency, but are saying differently now and saying that's hypocrisy. That's just not true. The appointment/vote did not happen for Obama so saying differently now is only bringing things back into balance.

Conversely, Mitch MConnell is a hypocrite because he had said that in the last year of a President the people should decide by voting. They did, indeed, not appoint Obama's nominee or even have a vote. He go his way. Now he wants it the other way now. He shouldn't get to have it both ways. Now, we all know that was an excuse, they should've just said, "We aren't going to appoint because we won't like any of his picks so we're going to wait." But that isn't what they said. Now, even if they had said that I'd still say this...

Even if Trump wins in 2020 I'd still not support him nominating a replacement for RBJ. I think in that instance The House should submit a list of names and they should figure out a replacement from the list. I believe our country is too close to the brink. A "win" now would just push us closer to that brink. I don't want our country to collapse and that is where we are heading if no one is going to take a step back. I also prefer the Supreme Court to be a balanced court, with a swing judge or two in the middle. A balanced court is a better court. We have too many examples of how too much ideological homogeneity on either said is not a good thing, on any side. It changes the metric of what is acceptable normal and what is not.

I don't know how much time we have left on our current path. A win here will hasten the loss, even if you think it's an unjust compromise.

Very well said. Of course McConnell is just one example. Many other Republicans are hypocrites for the same reason. So is Trump but everyone expects him to be one, so I guess that's Ok.

 

[Fishking]

The house plays no role in the Supreme Court nomination process. If you would like to se that changed then you should write your congressional representative and get them to sponsor an amendment change. I'm not totally opposed to the idea of the House playing a role in the selection process and see how if the House is controlled by one party and the presidency by another it would force a comparamise.

I'm not saying The House plays a legal roll. I'm saying extend an olive branch to better serve the country, voluntarily.

 

[Fishking]

Very well said. Of course McConnell is just one example. Many other Republicans are hypocrites for the same reason. So is Trump but everyone expects him to be one, so I guess that's Ok.

I mean...I actually don't expect them to do what I said. I'm way too cynical to think that would happen. I'm just voicing my opinion on what I think needs to happen to start the process of saving our country. I think we are closer to the brink than people realize and I don't want that to happen.

 

[Chillfolks]

I'm not saying The House plays a legal roll. I'm saying extend an olive branch to better serve the country, voluntarily.

Ok the House could prepare a list of conservative justices if they are interested in extending any type of olive branch

 

[independentusa]

Ok the House could prepare a list of conservative justices if they are interested in extending any type of olive branch

You do realize that Obama's choice was not considered a liberal judge, but a moderate. It came down to Moscow Mitch just saying no to Obama once again as he had done for 6 years. Moscow Mitch is the main proponent of party before country.

 

[Fishking]

Ok the House could prepare a list of conservative justices if they are interested in extending any type of olive branch

That won't fix the hypocrisy or work to have a country still standing on the other end.

 

[Casper]

So for those who have been here a while know that I'm by no means a liberal, so I'm not coming at this from that perspective. My thoughts on this are the following:

When you bring up quotes from Democrats in 2016 saying that the appointment/vote should happen even in the last year of the presidency, but are saying differently now and saying that's hypocrisy. That's just not true. The appointment/vote did not happen for Obama so saying differently now is only bringing things back into balance.

Conversely, Mitch MConnell is a hypocrite because he had said that in the last year of a President the people should decide by voting. They did, indeed, not appoint Obama's nominee or even have a vote. He go his way. Now he wants it the other way now. He shouldn't get to have it both ways. Now, we all know that was an excuse, they should've just said, "We aren't going to appoint because we won't like any of his picks so we're going to wait." But that isn't what they said. Now, even if they had said that I'd still say this...

Even if Trump wins in 2020 I'd still not support him nominating a replacement for RBJ. I think in that instance The House should submit a list of names and they should figure out a replacement from the list. I believe our country is too close to the brink. A "win" now would just push us closer to that brink. I don't want our country to collapse and that is where we are heading if no one is going to take a step back. I also prefer the Supreme Court to be a balanced court, with a swing judge or two in the middle. A balanced court is a better court. We have too many examples of how too much ideological homogeneity on either said is not a good thing, on any side. It changes the metric of what is acceptable normal and what is not.

I don't know how much time we have left on our current path. A win here will hasten the loss, even if you think it's an unjust compromise.

While to a degree I agree, I will say those days are simply a thing of the past, trump will never offer an olive branch, he is not that honorable, and McConnell does not have the honor to stand by his own Word, and is too afraid to even try to stand up to trump.
Sadly what will probably go down is trump will submit his pick and the Repubs in the Senate will fast track it and get them confirmed. Then, If the Dems win the Senate and WH you can count on an expansion of the SC, but more like 11 instead of a higher numbers mentioned, and they will get it done quickly.
As I said, we have a mess for a government these days, we have a Congress that cannot pass Relief Bill, are having a fight to even pass a Bill to keep the government open beyond September, but they have plenty of time to get a SC justice vacant seat filled as quick as possible. This Nation is in serious trouble and no matter who wins in November we will continue to decline as a Nation, with the divide being what it is there does not look like there ever will be a fix for our dysfunctional government. I only feel sorry for the younger generation that will inherit the mess as their Nation, those older among us deserve no pity we encouraged and supported the political divide and as such are just as culpable as those we sent to Washington.

 

[Chillfolks]

That won't fix the hypocrisy or work to have a country still standing on the other end.

The only way to fix the hypocrisy to to overhaul the whole process. Have a more defined set of rukea on when a president can or can't nominate a justice. Have a time frame established from time of nomination to confirmation vote.

 

[Fishking]

While to a degree I agree, I will say those days are simply a thing of the past, trump will never offer an olive branch, he is not that honorable, and McConnell does not have the honor to stand by his own Word, and is too afraid to even try to stand up to trump.
Sadly what will probably go down is trump will submit his pick and the Repubs in the Senate will fast track it and get them confirmed. Then, If the Dems win the Senate and WH you can count on an expansion of the SC, but more like 11 instead of a higher numbers mentioned, and they will get it done quickly.
As I said, we have a mess for a government these days, we have a Congress that cannot pass Relief Bill, are having a fight to even pass a Bill to keep the government open beyond September, but they have plenty of time to get a SC justice vacant seat filled as quick as possible. This Nation is in serious trouble and no matter who wins in November we will continue to decline as a Nation, with the divide being what it is there does not look like there ever will be a fix for our dysfunctional government. I only feel sorry for the younger generation that will inherit the mess as their Nation, those older among us deserve no pity we encouraged and supported the political divide and as such are just as culpable as those we sent to Washington.

Yeah I don't think that they will do any of what I suggested either. I just think it's the best way to move forward. Neither side is backing down from anything and bother are sending us down this road. The sad thing is that the independents/non-voters are larger than either two parties and yet they will continue things as we have. Something needs to happen to change course. Someone needs to blink and compromise.

 

[Phys251]

So for those who have been here a while know that I'm by no means a liberal, so I'm not coming at this from that perspective. My thoughts on this are the following:

When you bring up quotes from Democrats in 2016 saying that the appointment/vote should happen even in the last year of the presidency, but are saying differently now and saying that's hypocrisy. That's just not true. The appointment/vote did not happen for Obama so saying differently now is only bringing things back into balance.

Conversely, Mitch MConnell is a hypocrite because he had said that in the last year of a President the people should decide by voting. They did, indeed, not appoint Obama's nominee or even have a vote. He go his way. Now he wants it the other way now. He shouldn't get to have it both ways. Now, we all know that was an excuse, they should've just said, "We aren't going to appoint because we won't like any of his picks so we're going to wait." But that isn't what they said. Now, even if they had said that I'd still say this...

Even if Trump wins in 2020 I'd still not support him nominating a replacement for RBJ. I think in that instance The House should submit a list of names and they should figure out a replacement from the list. I believe our country is too close to the brink. A "win" now would just push us closer to that brink. I don't want our country to collapse and that is where we are heading if no one is going to take a step back. I also prefer the Supreme Court to be a balanced court, with a swing judge or two in the middle. A balanced court is a better court. We have too many examples of how too much ideological homogeneity on either said is not a good thing, on any side. It changes the metric of what is acceptable normal and what is not.

I don't know how much time we have left on our current path. A win here will hasten the loss, even if you think it's an unjust compromise.

Holy smokes, that's one of the best posts I've seen you write.

Once the dust settles from all of this, we need a constitutional amendment that term limits future SCOTUS justices and lets each president appoint only two new justices, unless that justice hasn't finished their term.

 

[Chillfolks]

Yeah I don't think that they will do any of what I suggested either. I just think it's the best way to move forward. Neither side is backing down from anything and bother are sending us down this road. The sad thing is that the independents/non-voters are larger than either two parties and yet they will continue things as we have. Something needs to happen to change course. Someone needs to blink and compromise.

So are you planning to vote for a third party candidate to do your part to help change the hypocritical cluster ****? I have been doing that and wish more people would actually vote for the change they proclaim to want to see.

 

[Casper]

Yeah I don't think that they will do any of what I suggested either. I just think it's the best way to move forward. Neither side is backing down from anything and bother are sending us down this road. The sad thing is that the independents/non-voters are larger than either two parties and yet they will continue things as we have. Something needs to happen to change course. Someone needs to blink and compromise.

I don't see it happening, sadly, in fact I see things getting far worse before anything gets better, if it even really can. We have lost our way as a People and as with other Nations in the past the decline is always ugly, we are no different other than it will happen faster than we expect.

 

[Fishking]

Holy smokes, that's one of the best posts I've seen you write.

Once the dust settles from all of this, we need a constitutional amendment that term limits future SCOTUS justices and lets each president appoint only two new justices, unless that justice hasn't finished their term.

We need something more. Something culturally, if we want to continue as a country, as people, as Americans. Law in the face of today's current climate will be ignored or just not do what needs to be done. I don't know what that thing could be though, so I'm very pessimistic about it.

I mean, if they did what I suggested in my post I think that would do a lot. People might stop and think we can work together.

 

[Fishking]

So are you planning to vote for a third party candidate to do your part to help change the hypocritical cluster ****? I have been doing that and wish more people would actually vote for the change they proclaim to want to see.

I've voted mostly Libertarian for a few years now.

 

[Chillfolks]

I've voted mostly Libertarian for a few years now.

Good glad to see you are being proactive

 

[Fishking]

I don't see it happening, sadly, in fact I see things getting far worse before anything gets better, if it even really can. We have lost our way as a People and as with other Nations in the past the decline is always ugly, we are no different other than it will happen faster than we expect.

This thread seems tangentially related to what is going on now and it seems our pessimism is holding true. I don't know what the protesters at the capital are hoping to accomplish but, just like here, if they got their "win" it would be worse than the loss in the end outcome.

Which side is going to be the grown up side that takes a step back and stops the escalation? I don't think either will.

 

[Casper]

This thread seems tangentially related to what is going on now and it seems our pessimism is holding true. I don't know what the protesters at the capital are hoping to accomplish but, just like here, if they got their "win" it would be worse than the loss in the end outcome.

Which side is going to be the grown up side that takes a step back and stops the escalation? I don't think either will.

Many on the right already have and have withdrawn their objections, the process will go quickly tomorrow and we only have to endure another 2 weeks of trump, unless Congress removes him before then, which is becoming far more likely after today. Most disgraceful act in our Nation since the civil war, and we will not be able to make this go away, it will remain a stain on this Nation forever.

 

[Fishking]

Many on the right already have and have withdrawn their objections, the process will go quickly tomorrow and we only have to endure another 2 weeks of trump, unless Congress removes him before then, which is becoming far more likely after today. Most disgraceful act in our Nation since the civil war, and we will not be able to make this go away, it will remain a stain on this Nation forever.

It definitely won't if we continue to escalate depending on who wins the next time. We saw a big escalation in 2016 and we seem to be on track for more escalation in 2020.