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A turning point for American healthcare.

I am a healthy individual, and will seriously consider dropping my insurance and just paying the fine to save a buttload of money. Then, when I get sick, i'll just sign up for the insurance.

We've already been warned that our premiums are going up a lot this year, in large part due to these changes. i'll make my decision at annual enrollment time.
 
I am a healthy individual, and will seriously consider dropping my insurance and just paying the fine to save a buttload of money. Then, when I get sick, i'll just sign up for the insurance.

We've already been warned that our premiums are going up a lot this year, in large part due to these changes. i'll make my decision at annual enrollment time.

So, tomorrow when you suddenly can't move your legs and they give you a diagnosis of Guillian Barre syndrome - which would land you in ICU within the week and take 2 years rehab - who are you going to sign up with?
 
So, tomorrow when you suddenly can't move your legs and they give you a diagnosis of Guillian Barre syndrome - which would land you in ICU within the week and take 2 years rehab - who are you going to sign up with?

My firend had Guillian Barre syndrome (I always preffered calling it Roseann Barr syndrome), and he was not in the ICU and his legs worked just fine. He was tired for a month or two.

Anyway, I think the risk of that (or any sudden onset such as that) occuring is pretty slim and is a chance I am willing to take. However, I would figure out what the diagnosis might be based on my symptoms, if it seemed like something serious, I would sign up for insurance as quickly as I can. Probably before I even go to the doctor.
 
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My firend had Guillian Barre syndrome (I always preffered calling it Roseann Barr syndrome) and he was not in the ICU and his legs worked just fine. However, he was tired for a month or two. Anyway, I think the risk of that (or any sudden onset such as that) occuring is pretty slim and is a chance I am willing to take. However, I would sign up for insurance as quickly as I can, probably before I even go to the doctor. If it turned out to be nothing, I will cancel my policy and wait for the next such onset. If it turns out to be something, I would probably end up keeping the policy.

I got diagnosed with a very rare heart condition. The bills are the worst part of this.
 
I got diagnosed with a very rare heart condition. The bills are the worst part of this.

The way it is now, you could have saved all the money you spent on insurance (assuming you had insurance) in years past and payed the fine. Then, when you start having these symptoms and think it's something serious, you sign up for the insurance, go to the doctor and the insurance company has to pay the bills. If worse comes to worse, you just sign up for the government's high risk pool - which I have little doubt will be a mess. With all that money you saved on health insurance premiums, you can pay all the bills that were left over (not payed by insurance). For the person that doesn't fall victim to catastrophic illness (most of us), they just had a nice little profit.
 
The way it is now, you could have saved all the money you spent on insurance (assuming you had insurance) in years past and payed the fine. Then, when you start having these symptoms and think it's something serious, you sign up for the insurance, go to the doctor and the insurance company has to pay the bills. If worse comes to worse, you just sign up for the government's high risk pool - which I have little doubt will be a mess. With all that money you saved on health insurance premiums, you can pay all the bills that were left over (not payed by insurance). For the person that doesn't fall victim to catastrophic illness (most of us), they just had a nice little profit.

I'm possibly looking at a one million dollar bill. Heart transplants are not cheap nor is the after care.
 
- Your right on one thing, the only way is up, for premiums that is. How can people be so gullible to think health care can be free?

Or think anything is free for that matter. One good thing about the Democrat's plan is it stops unwarranted cost increases. For those who don't remember, medical costs were twice as much as regular cost of living increases for the last 20 years.

ricksfolly
 
I'm possibly looking at a one million dollar bill. Heart transplants are not cheap nor is the after care.

I work in insurance. I was a claim examiner for quite some time before promotions etc. I know how much medical bills are. Good luck with it all.

But, that really doesn't change the discussion, though. Think of all the money you could have saved in years past by not having to pay for insurance. That would have been more than enough to cover co-pays, deductibles, etc. The insurance that you signed up for just a few weeks/months prior to the official diagnosis would then cover the rest.
 
I work in insurance. I was a claim examiner for quite some time before promotions etc. I know how much medical bills are. Good luck with it all.

But, that really doesn't change the discussion, though. Think of all the money you could have saved in years past by not having to pay for insurance. That would have been more than enough to cover co-pays, deductibles, etc. The insurance that you signed up for just a few weeks/months prior to the official diagnosis would then cover the rest.

Yeah i use to sell the stuff and never bought it. The whole system is rigged IMHO. And in my reearch lately heart transplants are not covered by many polocies and the ones that do are only partial.
 
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Yeah i use to sell the stuff and never bought it. The whole system is rigged IMHO. And in my reearch lately heart transplants are not covered by many polocies and the ones that do are only partial.

Guess that depends on the insurance, I know my moms was covered.Although that wasn't really a heart transplant. They broke her ribs, took the heart out, repaired it and placed it back in. So, it was the same heart. Dunno, but if true, te reforms won't reduce the costs associated with the surgery and after care.
 
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Premiums were going up before healthcare reform, so why would any reasonable person just assume reform caused them to go up?

Maybe because Obama promised they wouldn't :ssst:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=adZlXoSVU2ys
Dec. 1 (Bloomberg) -- The Obama Administration hailed a congressional report that predicted most Americans will pay no more for insurance coverage under health-care legislation being debated in the U.S. Senate.

On average, 134 million Americans insured through large employers will see no rise in premiums and may pay 3 percent less than they would if Congress failed to pass a health-care overhaul plan, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said yesterday. Subsidies also will lower costs as much as 59 percent for 18 million people buying their own insurance.

In fact, he promised it would be cheaper after his reform ;)
 
The Public Option was still on the table back then. Taking that out changed things.

Yeah... That not at all true. The article is discussing the senate version of the bill. THe senate voted down the public option in September. The article and the CBO analysis came out in December.

I really like that you tried though. I guess it's what any good obama supporter should do... Kind of how Boo still insists that new taxes aren't being added by the reform.
 
I have Blue Cross/Blue Shield and my prescription price has gone way up. My son is only monthly meds and altogether, insurance used to pay almost of of it and my out of pocket used to be less than $20.00. Now.. the same meds are $72.00 out of pocket.

The company I work for is trying to find new insurance because BC/BS will be so high, more than half the employees would not be able to afford the premiums and the portion the company picks up... well... it's too high for them as well.

Thanks for nothing.

It's more expensive than you think. You pay twice. Once through taxation, and once through premiums. Gotta love that healthcare.
 
Maybe because Obama promised they wouldn't :ssst:

Health-Insurance Costs Won


In fact, he promised it would be cheaper after his reform ;)

And that is his effort. Once again, we see people assuming the government controls somethign they don't, even when they say they do. Insurance companies aren't about to do him or us any favors. They are in business. This means they need to amke money. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but it does go counter to the goals of healthcare in general. There is something just a little distasteful in making money off someone elses misery. But, that is our system.

Also, in the long run, it may well end up cheapter. We'll see.

But we do know it was going up before. Cost is but one element of reform.
 
but it does go counter to the goals of healthcare in general.

I dunno if that's true. The way to ensure you have best of everything possible (doctors, medication, equipment) is to allow profit. By removing profit, you also remove the future medical discoveries, or at least severely limit them, and you prevent the smartest and most capable from becoming doctors.

The reason most medical innovations occur in the US, rather than elsewhere, is directly because of the profit motivation and the brain drain that occurs when the most intelligent leave other countries to come here where the profit is available.

So, if the "goal of health care in general" is to cure and control the most diseases and illnesses possible, then the profit motivation is right in line with that goal. If the "goal of health care in gneral" is to ensure everyone has equal access to less medical care and innovation, then you are correct. Removing the profit margin is right in line with that goal.
 
The only way to have the part you like, without a public option, is to make it a requirement that everyone have insurance. The truth is all that many complain about
is what is required to have what they want.

If we could have removed the fear mongering misinformation, we might have done a much better job with reform. But that isn't how it worked out. However, my point is that things we're getting worse before reform. Permiums were going up, people were losing insurance, losing coverage. All of this before refrom. Doing nothing wasn't a viable option. Even if it cost more, but more people are covered, we're still better for it. And we can keep working to make it better.

Except it is NOT a requirement. Do you really think that a young person in his late 20s will buy health insurance for $2 to $3 thousand a year, when he can simply pay a relatively small fine. It's not going to happen. The whole premise of this pig of a bill being cost effective was the assumption that young healthy people would be paying in, but would cost the system very little. It ain't gonna happen.

And just wait til people see how much this is going to cost them. Do you think a young family of four with a household income of $35,000. will be able to afford this ??? No way. They also have to pay the entire monthly premium and then wait until their taxes are filed and only get a tax credit for the premiums. The tax credit will only pay a small portion of the cost of the health insurance premiums.

When the details of this pig come to light, the people are going to revolt.
 
I dunno if that's true. The way to ensure you have best of everything possible (doctors, medication, equipment) is to allow profit. By removing profit, you also remove the future medical discoveries, or at least severely limit them, and you prevent the smartest and most capable from becoming doctors.

The reason most medical innovations occur in the US, rather than elsewhere, is directly because of the profit motivation and the brain drain that occurs when the most intelligent leave other countries to come here where the profit is available.

So, if the "goal of health care in general" is to cure and control the most diseases and illnesses possible, then the profit motivation is right in line with that goal. If the "goal of health care in gneral" is to ensure everyone has equal access to less medical care and innovation, then you are correct. Removing the profit margin is right in line with that goal.

You seem to think it's an "either or" choice. The truth is somewhere in between.
 
You seem to think it's an "either or" choice. The truth is somewhere in between.

I was responding to someone that indicated that profit is bad in the medical field and, basically, that people should not be allowed to make money. Now, if you want to talk about alternatives to his "no profit" mantra, I am more than happy to listen
 
Except it is NOT a requirement. Do you really think that a young person in his late 20s will buy health insurance for $2 to $3 thousand a year, when he can simply pay a relatively small fine. It's not going to happen. The whole premise of this pig of a bill being cost effective was the assumption that young healthy people would be paying in, but would cost the system very little. It ain't gonna happen.

And just wait til people see how much this is going to cost them. Do you think a young family of four with a household income of $35,000. will be able to afford this ??? No way. They also have to pay the entire monthly premium and then wait until their taxes are filed and only get a tax credit for the premiums. The tax credit will only pay a small portion of the cost of the health insurance premiums.

When the details of this pig come to light, the people are going to revolt.

We'll see. And if it doesn't, then maybe we can revisit the better option, the public option. or we can make the consequences larger. And when young people guess wrong, as some surely will and always have, just as they have with auto insurance, we might well have more serious consequences for that as well.

Instead of whining, however, or pretending doing nothing is a fine option, try helping your representatives roll up their sleeves and do more than block and misrepresent. Help them to the peoples work they were elected for, and not just promote the lying because it helps them on election day. ;)
 
We'll see. And if it doesn't, then maybe we can revisit the better option, the public option. or we can make the consequences larger. And when young people guess wrong, as some surely will and always have, just as they have with auto insurance, we might well have more serious consequences for that as well.

Instead of whining, however, or pretending doing nothing is a fine option, try helping your representatives roll up their sleeves and do more than block and misrepresent. Help them to the peoples work they were elected for, and not just promote the lying because it helps them on election day. ;)

No, if they get sick, all they have to do is get insurance. No pre-existing restrictions will allow anyone to get health insurance AFTER they get sick. It'll just raise the cost of insurance on everyone else.

I don't want my representatives to block or misrepresent... I want them to repeal this pig. The only ones that have misrepresented health care reform are the the Dems.
 
No, if they get sick, all they have to do is get insurance. No pre-existing restrictions will allow anyone to get health insurance AFTER they get sick. It'll just raise the cost of insurance on everyone else.

I don't want my representatives to block or misrepresent... I want them to repeal this pig. The only ones that have misrepresented health care reform are the the Dems.

Again, if that problem actually presents itself, we'll see what comes next. I'll be pulling for a public option.

And if you supported in any way what little the republicans offered before this bill passed, and any of the lies about death panels or socialism, then you did in fact encourage your representative block and misrepresent.
 
Again, if that problem actually presents itself, we'll see what comes next. I'll be pulling for a public option.

And if you supported in any way what little the republicans offered before this bill passed, and any of the lies about death panels or socialism, then you did in fact encourage your representative block and misrepresent.

Republican comments on this pig don't come close to the misrepresentation by the Dems. A public option will NEVER be passed in this country.
 
Republican comments on this pig don't come close to the misrepresentation by the Dems. A public option will NEVER be passed in this country.

It may not, as fear mongering is very successful here. But, that is why you have this "pig" as you call it.
 
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