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A tax which could solve many economic problems today

Masterhawk

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Previously, we discussed economic definitions

Now we will discuss taxation.

Today, most developed countries derive a majority of their revenue from the income tax (and payroll tax) which is a tax on labor. There's also sales tas and VAT which tax consumption, capital gains tax which taxes interest (gains from capital), and the wealth and estate taxes which tax idle wealth.

I tend to be a centrist on the issue of taxation. According to republicans, taxes are evil. According to democrats, taxes are necessary. Both are correct. Just about every tax incurs a deadweight loss upon the economy (not including pigovian taxes). This is because of opportunity cost. Money handed over to the government isn't spent on consumption or investment.

But what if it didn't have to be that way?

Of the three factors of production, land appears to be the odd one out. This is because while labor and capital have a potentially unlimited capacity, land is in fixed supply. Although land specifically refers to natural resources, the namesake is fitting because the primary use for nature in most developed countries is real estate. Land has a fixed supply, meaning that any increase in demand will increase land prices. Furthermore, increases in the value of land benefit no one except the landowners, unlike increases in capital and labor. This is because, as mentioned before, land has a fixed supply. If the price is up, that means there's more economic demand for that land. The saying goes that there is no such thing as a free lunch. This isn't true, there is a way to get a free lunch. Typical investment involves putting money into something in the hopes of getting more out. Speculation is a form of investing which does not contribute to the investment itself. An example would be buying something for $10 and selling it for $2000 as a rare collectible. This isn't to say that all forms of speculation are bad. In a volatile commodity market, speculation can help serve to stabilize the price. But it's in the real estate market that we the pernicious effects of speculation because land retained by speculators is not contributing to the economy, at least not as much as it could. This is why an economist by the name of Henry George proposed a land value tax (LVT). The LVT differs from a property tax in that it only taxes the land itself rather than anything on it. This means that decay and improvements won't affect the amount taxed. This is important because more efficiently used land tends to be taxed more. What may affect it is everything happening around it.

Another problem that the LVT may solve (at least if it's implemented at the state or federal level) is the inefficient use of land encouraged by governments. I'm mainly referring to byzantine zoning codes and subsidies to roads. Bad zoning is often the result of local nimbys opposed to new development. What the LVT would do is tax homeowners on very valuable land. All the sudden, the same people who oppose new development will beg local governments to change the codes so that they can sell their land to developers. Furthermore, an LVT would tax roads subsidized by lower levels of government.

One concern is that it will hit rural america like a trainwreck, devastating agriculture. My response to this is that this tax would actually be a tax on suburbia, let me explain. Landowners in downtown areas will be paying the highest taxes but property there, after enough time, will derive a very high percent of their value from the improvements rather than just land (Is the land in Manhattan worth more or are the skyscrapers worth more). Rural property will derive a minimal percent of value from improvements but land value will likewise be low. It will be suburbia which gets hit the hardest. This is because suburban land is used the least efficiently. Property taxes encourage suburban sprawl because property encouraging a higher density is typically taxed more. An LVT would encourage efficient use of the urban core, decreasing demand for suburban housing. This would actually be good for farmers because it would slow down suburban sprawl. It would also be good for small farmers because big farms tend to be more land intensive (small farms have more buildings per unit of land, subjecting them to proeprty taxes).

End of part 1
 
Part 2:

The LVT would also curb gentrification, or at the very least slow it down. This is because of the way that development would go. Currently, development is incentivized to push toward low income areas because going there means lower property taxes and land is easier to purchase. To illustrate how this would change, take Chicago as an example. You have the north side and south side, the former is home to affluent white communities while the latter is home to poverty stricken black communities with high crime rates. The LVT would incentivize more development in the north side because land values there are higher.

Furthermore, the LVT cannot be passed down to renters because rent is already close to general subjective value.

For more info, click here: https://debatepolitics.com/threads/understanding-economic-definitions.463791/

For these reasons, the LVT is a win win. It increases economic efficiency while also being equitable.
 

The Problem With 100% Land Value Taxes​

 
It's a moot point anyway because a sprawling, complicated, inefficient tax code is a feature, not a bug. No politician would ever want a LVT, unless you add it on top of the current mess.
 

The Problem With 100% Land Value Taxes​

The LVT doesn't have to be 100%
 
I'd go for a stock market sales tax, if you really want to create revenue.
 
Previously, we discussed economic definitions

Now we will discuss taxation.

<snip>
For the years since I have seen the concept, I like the idea of a consumption tax that only taxes when a purchase is made. The tax can be variable by the type of product. For example, alcohol, candy, soda, etc. taxed at a higher rate than the average product taxed. Products considered necessities like deodorant, tooth brushes, razors, food, etc. would be a zero tax unless they were "boutique" type items. New cars taxed, but the taxation decreases by how old they are.

Necessities not taxed would mean the lower income people would pay no tax until they had enough income to buy things not considered a necessity.

I agree with the concept of taxing the property value without considering what is built on it. This keeps people or corporations from endlessly acquire something that there is only an limited amount of.

I would add that there is no business or corporation tax until an entity owns a given percentage of a market share, and then the more of a market share owned, the higher that tax rates. This is to avoid a monopoly type setup and pricing.

OCP anyone, where they basically own all business? Not a good idea.
 
Understanding economic definitions
This is a barebones definition of how economics works. Supply and demand: The concept of supply and demand is the very foundation of any economy. In a market economy, price is directly correlated with demand and inversely correlated with supply. These three factors lead to a self correcting...

Except price is NOT directly related to demand. Not even assuming ideal rational consumers (and rational vendors) and perfectly flexible demand.

See the problem here is you've used a mathematical term ("correlated") incorrectly. You imply price is linearly related to demand, when actually it's a function and even more confusingly, is the price which the most desperate consumers will pay. Volume of sales typically goes down. Nor is it right to assume there's only one price: from loyalty to their customers, some vendors will sell out at the old price.

I can play nice, honestly. I just get irked by sham math.

For the years since I have seen the concept, I like the idea of a consumption tax that only taxes when a purchase is made. The tax can be variable by the type of product. For example, alcohol, candy, soda, etc. taxed at a higher rate than the average product taxed. Products considered necessities like deodorant, tooth brushes, razors, food, etc. would be a zero tax unless they were "boutique" type items. New cars taxed, but the taxation decreases by how old they are.

Necessities not taxed would mean the lower income people would pay no tax until they had enough income to buy things not considered a necessity.

Europe has a VAT in every member, it's actually required to be part of the Economic Union.

The VAT is harder to calculate, but does play nice with partially-manufactured goods crossing borders. Possibly the US could do without that, but the Euros can't.

Oh, and each country has a VAT-free list: food and medical supplies are typically on it. France has books as well, iirc.

I agree with the concept of taxing the property value without considering what is built on it. This keeps people or corporations from endlessly acquire something that there is only an limited amount of.

Uh, there is a limited amount of physical property in places people want to live though.

My view is that high land prices drive people to build a bigger and more expensive house on the land. I've never quite understood why tho.

I would add that there is no business or corporation tax until an entity owns a given percentage of a market share, and then the more of a market share owned, the higher that tax rates. This is to avoid a monopoly type setup and pricing.

Monopoly of an market niche is so lucrative, your tax would need to be pretty high to discourage it. Like ... over 50% of profits.

Then there's the other problem. None of them declare a profit unless it suits them.
 
If only we would begin to solve our spending problems.
 
Tax all income as income above a cap. It probably won't happen, but that's what I support.
 
Monopoly of an market niche is so lucrative, your tax would need to be pretty high to discourage it. Like ... over 50% of profits.

Then there's the other problem. None of them declare a profit unless it suits them.
Then change the way that the income is calculated.

The real problem is the tax laws that congress enact. As long as they keep writing in loopholes for their rich donor froends, there will be no solution. We are destroying our own nation by as a majority, being an ignorant block of voters. I don't see any solution that has a chance to success as long as we keep voting like we do.
 
For the years since I have seen the concept, I like the idea of a consumption tax that only taxes when a purchase is made. The tax can be variable by the type of product. For example, alcohol, candy, soda, etc. taxed at a higher rate than the average product taxed. Products considered necessities like deodorant, tooth brushes, razors, food, etc. would be a zero tax unless they were "boutique" type items. New cars taxed, but the taxation decreases by how old they are.

Necessities not taxed would mean the lower income people would pay no tax until they had enough income to buy things not considered a necessity.

I agree with the concept of taxing the property value without considering what is built on it. This keeps people or corporations from endlessly acquire something that there is only an limited amount of.

I would add that there is no business or corporation tax until an entity owns a given percentage of a market share, and then the more of a market share owned, the higher that tax rates. This is to avoid a monopoly type setup and pricing.

OCP anyone, where they basically own all business? Not a good idea.
I think that a consumption tax is more distortionary than an income tax. If you make more money, you're taxed more but a higher paycheck will always leave you with more money at the end of the day. Taxing consumption will result in less consumption.

Also, I'm talking about taxing land value, not necessarily property value.
 
Reminds me of the old joke, "Pete and Repeat went out in a boat, Pete fell out, who was left?"

Tax, spend, grow debt, devalue currency, inflate cost.
Then as a solution...
Tax, spend, grow debt, devalue currency, inflate cost.
...
 
I think that a consumption tax is more distortionary than an income tax. If you make more money, you're taxed more but a higher paycheck will always leave you with more money at the end of the day. Taxing consumption will result in less consumption.

Also, I'm talking about taxing land value, not necessarily property value.
Are you suggesting that after a well off person pays their taxes, they shouldn't have any more left than a poor person?
 
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