A tale of two special prosecutors....

[Stinger]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinger
One person, who turned over all his notes and for all we know at this point did not commit those offenses but if he did, so be it he will face the music. What this administration did not do is hide evidence, claim executive privlege, urge others to lie and adopted the "I can't recall" strategy. Fitzgerald has been clear that everyone cooperated with the investigation except for perhaps Libby and he was acting on his own.

I find it remarkeable that you all know everything about this case! You've got insider information that the rest of the world does not have.

I have the same information that is available to you, the difference is I make use of it. Now you are perfectly free to rebut anything I have posted with facts.

You write your posts as facts when in truth your posts are pure speculation and have no way of being proven true at this time.

My post was "pure speculation"? What executive privelege did the Bush adminsitration claim in regards to Fitzgerald's investigation? Who in the Bush adminsitration urged anyone to lie and who was it that was urged? Who in the administration publicly smeared the prosecutors who were investigating the matter? Why did Fitzgerald state in his press conference the administration had cooperated and he had no complaints about getting the information he needed, oh maybe you didn't listen to him speak.

And do you deny that the Clinton administration withheld evidence, played dumb and plotted to smear the OIC with personal attacks and urged people to lie?

FITZGERALD: I think all government agencies that we have turned to for cooperation have cooperated. .............

FITZGERALD: You built some facts into the question that I'm not going to adopt, and so I'm not going to get into reports in the newspaper that certain things happened, and then if I'm not allowed to confirm it, deny them, build it into a question.
All I'll tell you is I'll stand behind that every agency cooperated with us.

For example, how in God's name can you possibly know that "everyone cooperated"? This statement is false, unprovable either way at this juncture.

See above.

The investigation continues and then there will be a trial. Until then all of our opions are just that, opinions.

FITZGERALD: Let me answer the two questions you asked in one.
OK, is the investigation finished? It's not over, but I'll tell you this: Very rarely do you bring a charge in a case that's going to be tried and would you ever end a grand jury investigation.
I can tell you, the substantial bulk of the work in this investigation is concluded.

Is it possible for us to express things as our opinion rather than writing them as if they are indisputable facts?

If you want to try and rebut anything I have posted then have at it, if you intent is to just dismiss out of hand based on your own lack of knowledge then spare me.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

First off, there are more then a few governments that still believe this yellowcake was purchased, and the Brits are one of those.

Please be so kind as to supply a citation for this assertion. IIRC, several govts had received info about an attempt to purchase. I do not recall that they all found the information to be trustworthy (ie "they believed it").

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Ken ... him.

I like you style of posting commentary that is both informed and sourced.

 

[Stinger]

Please be so kind as to supply a citation for this assertion. IIRC, several govts had received info about an attempt to purchase. I do not recall that they all found the information to be trustworthy (ie "they believed it").

From the Stephens Hayes article in The Weekly Standard outlining the intelligence the Bush administration was recieving about this, the intelligence it formulated it's plans for Saddam on.

*************************
On October 18, 2001, the CIA published a Senior Executive Intelligence Bulletin that discussed the finding. "According to a foreign government service, Niger as of early this year planned to send several tons of uranium to Iraq under an agreement concluded late last year." The report noted the sourcing: "There is no corroboration from other sources that such an agreement was reached or that uranium was transferred."
*************************

He notes another similar report came out in February of 2002

**************************
Analysts at the Defense Intelligence Agency wrote a report using the new information entitled "Niamey signed an agreement to sell 500 tons of uranium a year to Baghdad." It was published internally on February 12, 2002, and included in the daily intelligence briefing prepared for Vice President Dick Cheney.
**************************

On February 18, 2002, the U.S. embassy in Niger sent a cable describing a new account of the alleged deal. The account, it said, "provides sufficient detail to warrant another hard look at Niger's uranium sales." The cable further warned against dismissing the allegations prematurely.
**************************

The report included the unsurprising declaration of former Nigerien prime minister Ibrahim Mayaki that Niger had signed no contracts with rogue states while he served first as foreign minister and then prime minister, from 1996 to 1999. But Mayaki added one tantalizing detail, also included in the CIA report that resulted from Wilson's trip. An Iraqi delegation had visited Niger in 1999 to explore "expanding commercial relations" between Iraq and Niger.

****************************
A September 2002 DIA paper, for instance, was titled Iraq's Reemerging Nuclear Program. It declared: "Iraq has been vigorously trying to procure uranium ore and yellowcake."
****************************
The CIA also cleared several references to the Iraq-Niger intelligence--some more direct than others--for use in speeches written for President Bush. This language was cleared by the CIA on September 11, 2002:

We also know this: within the past few years, Iraq has resumed efforts to purchase large quantities of a type of uranium oxide known as yellowcake, which is an essential ingredient in this [enrichment] process. The regime was caught trying to purchase 500 metric tons of this material. It takes about 10 tons to produce enough enriched uranium for a single nuclear weapon.
​

*****************************

September 24, 2002, British government. "There is intelligence that Iraq has sought the supply of significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
*****************************

Me again: Hayes notes that on the same day the CIA cleared further statements on Niger and uranium. He also notes that on October 1, 2002, the CIA had published the National Intelligence Estimate on Iraqi WMD, Iraq's Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction which stated
"Iraq [has been] vigorously trying to procure uranium ore and yellowcake; acquiring either would shorten the time Baghdad needs to produce nuclear weapons."

Now all this is evidence the intelligence agency's are feeding the Bush adminsitration. It wasn't until Oct. 9 2002 that the now infamous forged documents were recieved and quickly discounted, they never had much to do with anything the administration said about it. And they came to light MONTHS after Wilson's trip to Niger, the trip he claimed to have seen them and concluded they were forgeries.

And as Hayes states "That's worth repeating: The CIA never objected to including the Iraq-Africa language in the State of the Union on the grounds that the information was unreliable."

And we know that the Senate Hearings concluded that is was not an unreasonable assumption that Saddam was trying to procure uranium from Africa. And that is what the Bush administration was being told, it is one of the items they based their decission to remove Saddam on.


​

 

[Stu Ghatze]

From the Stephens Hayes article in The Weekly Standard outlining the intelligence the Bush administration was recieving about this, the intelligence it formulated it's plans for Saddam on.

*************************
On October 18, 2001, the CIA published a Senior Executive Intelligence Bulletin that discussed the finding. "According to a foreign government service, Niger as of early this year planned to send several tons of uranium to Iraq under an agreement concluded late last year." The report noted the sourcing: "There is no corroboration from other sources that such an agreement was reached or that uranium was transferred."
*************************

He notes another similar report came out in February of 2002

**************************
Analysts at the Defense Intelligence Agency wrote a report using the new information entitled "Niamey signed an agreement to sell 500 tons of uranium a year to Baghdad." It was published internally on February 12, 2002, and included in the daily intelligence briefing prepared for Vice President Dick Cheney.
**************************

On February 18, 2002, the U.S. embassy in Niger sent a cable describing a new account of the alleged deal. The account, it said, "provides sufficient detail to warrant another hard look at Niger's uranium sales." The cable further warned against dismissing the allegations prematurely.
**************************

The report included the unsurprising declaration of former Nigerien prime minister Ibrahim Mayaki that Niger had signed no contracts with rogue states while he served first as foreign minister and then prime minister, from 1996 to 1999. But Mayaki added one tantalizing detail, also included in the CIA report that resulted from Wilson's trip. An Iraqi delegation had visited Niger in 1999 to explore "expanding commercial relations" between Iraq and Niger.

****************************
A September 2002 DIA paper, for instance, was titled Iraq's Reemerging Nuclear Program. It declared: "Iraq has been vigorously trying to procure uranium ore and yellowcake."
****************************
The CIA also cleared several references to the Iraq-Niger intelligence--some more direct than others--for use in speeches written for President Bush. This language was cleared by the CIA on September 11, 2002:

We also know this: within the past few years, Iraq has resumed efforts to purchase large quantities of a type of uranium oxide known as yellowcake, which is an essential ingredient in this [enrichment] process. The regime was caught trying to purchase 500 metric tons of this material. It takes about 10 tons to produce enough enriched uranium for a single nuclear weapon.
​

*****************************

September 24, 2002, British government. "There is intelligence that Iraq has sought the supply of significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
*****************************

Me again: Hayes notes that on the same day the CIA cleared further statements on Niger and uranium. He also notes that on October 1, 2002, the CIA had published the National Intelligence Estimate on Iraqi WMD, Iraq's Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction which stated
"Iraq [has been] vigorously trying to procure uranium ore and yellowcake; acquiring either would shorten the time Baghdad needs to produce nuclear weapons."

Now all this is evidence the intelligence agency's are feeding the Bush adminsitration. It wasn't until Oct. 9 2002 that the now infamous forged documents were recieved and quickly discounted, they never had much to do with anything the administration said about it. And they came to light MONTHS after Wilson's trip to Niger, the trip he claimed to have seen them and concluded they were forgeries.

And as Hayes states "That's worth repeating: The CIA never objected to including the Iraq-Africa language in the State of the Union on the grounds that the information was unreliable."

And we know that the Senate Hearings concluded that is was not an unreasonable assumption that Saddam was trying to procure uranium from Africa. And that is what the Bush administration was being told, it is one of the items they based their decission to remove Saddam on.


​

Dear Stinger, ..please don't get the liberals, & Democrats all confused about the truth.:smile:

Right now "they" are hoping that this CIA investigation about Valerie Plame deal turns into an investigation into the Iraqi's war legitimacy......

you know, ..in hopes of seeing it as another Viet-Nam, & perhaps even seeing this so called; "Plamegate" as another "watergate"!

Same old shyte, & same old strategy....but all with different faces.

Maybe the media migt even grace everybody with another new "deepthroat" source! Huh huh....How else does the democratic party ever get any empowerment?:smile:

 

[aps]

Dear Stinger, ..please don't get the liberals, & Democrats all confused about the truth.:smile:

Right now "they" are hoping that this CIA investigation about Valerie Plame deal turns into an investigation into the Iraqi's war legitimacy......

you know, ..in hopes of seeing it as another Viet-Nam, & perhaps even seeing this so called; "Plamegate" as another "watergate"!

Same old shyte, & same old strategy....but all with different faces.

Maybe the media migt even grace everybody with another new "deepthroat" source! Huh huh....How else does the democratic party ever get any empowerment?:smile:

Nah, I'm hoping that the Senate Intelligence Committee keeps its promise to investigate the issue of whether the Bush Administration exaggerated the intelligence, but I am not holding my breath.

 

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by Stinger
From the Stephens Hayes article in The Weekly Standard outlining the intelligence the Bush administration was recieving about this, the intelligence it formulated it's plans for Saddam on.<<


Stephen Hayes?! ROTFL!

Isn't he the guy that still believes Saddam worked with Osama to attack us on 9/11? Yeah...there's a 'reliable' source.

How about reading thoughts and ideas from places other then Newsmax and yellow journalism like The Weekly Standard?

Think it might help you gain a better picture of the truth?

 

[26 X World Champs]

Originally Posted by Stinger
From the Stephens Hayes article in The Weekly Standard outlining the intelligence the Bush administration was recieving about this, the intelligence it formulated it's plans for Saddam on.<<

Stephen Hayes?! ROTFL!

Isn't he the guy that still believes Saddam worked with Osama to attack us on 9/11? Yeah...there's a 'reliable' source.

Yup, you nailed it. Hayes is a Rupert Murdoch employed right wing hack who is decidedly pro-Bush.

Wanna see what this guy said to Tim Russert on Meet The Press on 5-30-04 regarding Hayes' claim in his book that Saddam & OBL are bosom buddies?
From the May 30 edition of MSNBC's Meet the Press:

RUSSERT: You have written a book called "The Connection: How al-Qaeda's Collaboration with Saddam Hussein Has Endangered America." The president has gone out of his way to say there's no evidence of Saddam Hussein linked to September 11. What's your thesis?

HAYES: I agree. I don't think -- I think it's too strong to say there's no evidence, but at the same time I think that one has to consider the fact that he may have had something to do with it on even a marginal scale.

 

[Stinger]

Originally Posted by Stinger
From the Stephens Hayes article in The Weekly Standard outlining the intelligence the Bush administration was recieving about this, the intelligence it formulated it's plans for Saddam on.<<


Stephen Hayes?! ROTFL!

Hoot? Baseless dismissals out of hand, and that is what you call rebuttal? ROTFL!
Everything cited is from the Senate Intelligence Committe hearings. Those are facts, you have nothing.

 

[Stinger]

And I see you can't refute anything he said either.