A Strategy for Improving Pitching

[Stealers Wheel]

I heard a couple of commentators discussing this and I would like some feedback.

As it is, the starting rotation is typically 4-5 really good pitchers, one each ready to pitch on a subsequent day. Then there is the team bullpen, a collection of pitchers deemed not good enough to be in the starting rotation. They are called up when the manager deems the starting pitcher needs to be pulled. The weakness is that the opposing batters typically get multiple shots at the starting pitcher, learning a bit more about his pitches with each succeeding at-bat. By the third or fourth at-bat, when the starting pitcher is beginning to tire, the batters start pinging base hits and even homeruns. And what is the answer? Bring a reliever who is not as good a pitcher as anyone on the starting rotation, and today he is required to face a minimum of 3 batters. Many games have been completely blown up by the bullpens.

Here's an alternative strategy.

Have all the starters ready to pitch every game. When the starter gets pulled, he is replaced BY ANOTHER STARTER, not the bullpen. And no starter faces more than 9 batters (maximum 3 innings). This would address issues I discussed in the 1st paragraph. This would also have the added benefit of not having ace pitchers risking injury due to excessive pitches.

What say you?

 

[CaughtInThe]

wouldn't that burn all the starting arms constantly (5 arms instead of 10-12 arms). i think one of the current series (maybe Braves/Dodgers) is 7 games in 7 days.

and, do you want a pitcher (that a batter hits .350 against) pitching or do you want a pitcher (that the batter hits .250 against but pitched yesterday) pitching?

 

[Stealers Wheel]

wouldn't that burn all the starting arms constantly (5 arms instead of 10-12 arms). i think one of the current series (maybe Braves/Dodgers) is 7 games in 7 days.

and, do you want a pitcher (that a batter hits .350 against) pitching or do you want a pitcher (that the batter hits .250 against but pitched yesterday) pitching?

How many pitches does it take to burn an arm? Remember, the starter can be replaced after one inning if the manager is worried about tomorrow's opposing lineup.

 

[CaughtInThe]

How many pitches does it take to burn an arm? Remember, the starter can be replaced after one inning if the manager is worried about tomorrow's opposing lineup.

it's the warming up gradually and then throwing 100mph (or whatever) that is the issue.

now, i will say that relievers have done it (like closers) game after game. they would mostly save Rivera for 3 outs in the 9th. so 9 pitchers per game (3 outs each) is feasible. but that's also pitching 9 pitchers a game for 162 games (plus post season) per year.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

it's the warming up gradually and then throwing 100mph (or whatever) that is the issue.

now, i will say that relievers have done it (like closers) game after game. they would mostly save Rivera for 3 outs in the 9th. so 9 pitchers per game (3 outs each) is feasible. but that's also pitching 9 pitchers a game for 162 games (plus post season) per year.

That is only true if you pull each pitcher after one inning pitched. If a starter is on his game, he can go three innings, and if the other starters also have their best stuff, we're looking at no more than 3 pitchers per game. And you still have your bullpen in the event of a blowout in the later innings.

 

[CaughtInThe]

That is only true if you pull each pitcher after one inning pitched. If a starter is on his game, he can go three innings, and if the other starters also have their best stuff, we're looking at no more than 3 pitchers per game. And you still have your bullpen in the event of a blowout in the later innings.

it would definitely be a different rotation. if the arms hold up then i don't see why a manager couldn't step outside the box.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

it would definitely be a different rotation. if the arms hold up then i don't see why a manager couldn't step outside the box.

Well, nobody is doing it, so obviously the managers are of a different mindset.

I'm thinking maybe really mix it up by putting in a reliever between starters from time to time, depending on the score, etc. If you're leading by 8 runs in the sixth, set your starters down and let the bullpen try not to blow the lead. I would like to see a batter face a new fresh pitcher at every at-bat.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Well, nobody is doing it, so obviously the managers are of a different mindset.

I'm thinking maybe really mix it up by putting in a reliever between starters from time to time, depending on the score, etc. If you're leading by 8 runs in the sixth, set your starters down and let the bullpen try not to blow the lead. I would like to see a batter face a new fresh pitcher at every at-bat.

coaches are copycats so if someone did try it and it worked it'd be the new normal. heck, if someone tried it and it failed i bet some coach would think he could tweak it and make it work.

they're always looking for an edge but still afraid to move too far from the norm.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

coaches are copycats so if someone did try it and it worked it'd be the new normal. heck, if someone tried it and it failed i bet some coach would think he could tweak it and make it work.

they're always looking for an edge but still afraid to move too far from the norm.

Tampa Bay tried some "outside the box" thinking a couple of seasons ago. They would start a game with a reliever for an inning or two, then bring in the starter. Didn't seem to help much, but hey, now we know, right?

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Every team has a boatload of pitchers now that can throw 98-100 mph... The hitters are catching up.. IMO all the 'analytics' when it comes to pitching isn't working as good now as it did 10 years ago when there wasn't as many 100 mph pitchers.

Pitchers now that throw a straight 98 mph fastball are getting hit, whether starters or relievers they're not fooling anyone anymore..

 

[armycowboy]

I heard a couple of commentators discussing this and I would like some feedback.

As it is, the starting rotation is typically 4-5 really good pitchers, one each ready to pitch on a subsequent day. Then there is the team bullpen, a collection of pitchers deemed not good enough to be in the starting rotation. They are called up when the manager deems the starting pitcher needs to be pulled. The weakness is that the opposing batters typically get multiple shots at the starting pitcher, learning a bit more about his pitches with each succeeding at-bat. By the third or fourth at-bat, when the starting pitcher is beginning to tire, the batters start pinging base hits and even homeruns. And what is the answer? Bring a reliever who is not as good a pitcher as anyone on the starting rotation, and today he is required to face a minimum of 3 batters. Many games have been completely blown up by the bullpens.

Here's an alternative strategy.

Have all the starters ready to pitch every game. When the starter gets pulled, he is replaced BY ANOTHER STARTER, not the bullpen. And no starter faces more than 9 batters (maximum 3 innings). This would address issues I discussed in the 1st paragraph. This would also have the added benefit of not having ace pitchers risking injury due to excessive pitches.

What say you?

You're mistaken when you say relief pitchers aren't as good as the starters. Different roles. There are a great many relievers who are better than a majority of starters.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

You're mistaken when you say relief pitchers aren't as good as the starters. Different roles. There are a great many relievers who are better than a majority of starters.

Not on a given team. If a pitcher is good enough, he is a starter for that team. He might be good enough to be a starter on another team, but not on the one he is currently with.

The bullpen does indeed have a different role than the starters, as does the the closer have a different role than the rest of the bullpen. But a starter is currently expected to pitch 5+ innings and keep his team in the game while maintaining a low ERA. Relievers are relegated to 1-3 innings because they cannot do what the starters can. They might be awesome for a couple of innings, but relievers are only resorted to when the starter is beginning show weakness or excessive pitches.

 

[armycowboy]

Not on a given team. If a pitcher is good enough, he is a starter for that team. He might be good enough to be a starter on another team, but not on the one he is currently with.

The bullpen does indeed have a different role than the starters, as does the the closer have a different role than the rest of the bullpen. But a starter is currently expected to pitch 5+ innings and keep his team in the game while maintaining a low ERA. Relievers are relegated to 1-3 innings because they cannot do what the starters can. They might be awesome for a couple of innings, but relievers are only resorted to when the starter is beginning show weakness or excessive pitches.

Relief pitchers have won Cy Young awards and are in the Hall of Fame.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Relief pitchers have won Cy Young awards and are in the Hall of Fame.

That is beside the point.

Quite often, in an elimination game, the manager will call up a starter in relief simply because "there is no tomorrow." Why do you suppose that is?