A Sound Victory in the Gay Rights Movement

[Kelzie]

Dating and having sex are the same thing???? Especially at 14 years old? Anyone who allows a 14 year old to date an 18 year should be brought up on charges to begin with. Any 18 year old who dates 14 year olds either needs to given some psyhcological help and have an injunction placed against them. There's two reasons why 18 year olds date 14 year olds, they have their own mental development problems and therefore 14 year olds do not have any business being involved with them in a relationship or they have figured out 14 year olds are easy prey. And yes it is more common, not fairly just more, than it was and that is not good. It is a black mark on our society that it is more acceptable because it indangers young children. There is a reason statutory rape laws were put in place to begin with and those reasons have not changed.

I know why statutory rape laws are there, and I do agree with them, I just don't have a problem with 18 and 14. I had sex when I had just turned 15 and not only did that extra week not do much for my mental development, having sex didn't turn me crazy. Or is that what you righties think is going to happen? And plenty of 14 year-old girls are more than mature enough to date an 18 year-old guy. Not quite sure if it goes the other way though...

Think hard now WOMEN were VICTORIOUS, now once again who is victorious in this decission? Let me tell you homosexuals who prey on childen. And the victims are the children they will prey on. What a celebration! Hope you and everyone else here who subscribes to the notion that this is a victory can live with that.

It was also a victory for women's rights. And equal rights. And the US government system. And the world movement. Stop being so stubborn.

And this "decision" has nothing to do with homosexuals having sex with minors. He was still punished. It's about not being punished more cause you don't like homosexuals.

Plus engaged the young boy in a homosexual act which is a mitigating factor.

But it shouldn't have been. Which thankfully was the ultimate decision by the court.

No I think that not too many don't share that opinion.

So I take this to mean you can't prove it. Not much of a surprise really.

Yep they don't have to worry about spending as much time in prison when they rape young boys, what a victory.

He was 14, not 8. And he spends just as much time in prison as 18 year-old boys who have consensual sex with 14 year-old girls. Which is fair.

No when your point makes no sense you need to connect them not me.

Since you appear to have problems figuring it out, I'll give you some help. When rabbits can't support their young, the body absorbs them. When humans are having too many children, there is a higher chance that they'll be gay, thus stopping the reproductive line. Both are mechanisms nature has developed to slow down reproduction. Make more sense?

Quote from a recognized authoritative biology book that says we are not a heterosexual species. We reproduce heterosexually NOT homosexually, it is a defining feature of our species. That some choose to engage in homosexual behaviors does not refute that fact. But the minute two homosexuals do manage to sexually reproduce (and not by artificial means) let me know.

Let's see this quote from a biology book that says we are a heterosexual species. I call bull ****. And all animal species reproduce heterosexually, so it would be hard for it to be a defining feature of our species. I hope you didn't get that from your "biology book" too, cause it's wrong.

We have had homosexuality for as long as we have had humans. So tell me, if it's something that our species has always had, how are we exclusively a heterosexual species?

 

[Kelzie]

Come on my left wing friends, if you had a daughter who was 14 would you have a problem if she was having sex with a guy who was 18? Get real.....

No, I wouldn't. Wait, was I supposed to say something different? Incidentally, I also wouldn't mind if my 14 year-old son were having a relationship with an 18 year-old boy.

 

[Navy Pride]

I know why statutory rape laws are there, and I do agree with them, I just don't have a problem with 18 and 14. I had sex when I had just turned 15 and not only did that extra week not do much for my mental development, having sex didn't turn me crazy. Or is that what you righties think is going to happen? And plenty of 14 year-old girls are more than mature enough to date an 18 year-old guy. Not quite sure if it goes the other way though...

So Kelzie seems like age is not a factor with you, just curious, Where would you draw the line when it comes to age?

18 and 14 is ok with you, how about 13, 12, 11, 10, 9? I am afraid to keep going......

Is and 18 year old guy and a 9 year old girl ok?

 

[Kelzie]

So Kelzie seems like age is not a factor with you, just curious, Where would you draw the line when it comes to age?

18 and 14 is ok with you, how about 13, 12, 11, 10, 9? I am afraid to keep going......

Is and 18 year old guy and a 9 year old girl ok?

It's really on a case by case basis. I understand why the line is drawn at 14, because there are a lot of 14 year-olds who are not ready mentally to have sex. But there are a lot who are. I draw the line at a point of mental maturity. So obviously after puberty. How far? Depends on the kid.

 

[26 X World Champs]

And if they found out that an 18 year homosexual was enticing their 14 year old son.................just hunkey dorey? And if they found out an 18 homoseuxal had had sex with their 14 year old son it would be no different to them than had an 18 year old woman had had sex with their 14 year old son and they don't believe the former would have a more egrgious effect than the latter. Some people need a reality check.

Translation? Look in the mirror Stinger! Writing homophobic post after homophobic post is a clear indication of prejudice, ignorance and bigotry.

Your point about an 18 year old woman having sex with a 14 year old boy is "better" than an 18 year old boy having sex with a 14 year old boy is the essence of prejudice and homophobia. You wrote a perfect scenario of what a prejudiced and bigoted person would write. Nice!

Using your very flawed logic then I guess an 18 year old boy having sex with a 14 year old girl would be worse than the 18 year old woman having sex with a 14 year old boy. How about an 18 year old lesbian having sex with a 14 year old lesbian? Where does that fall in your sentencing guidelines? :rofl

Hmm? How about an 18 year old BI-SEXUAL woman having sex with a 14 year old boy and a 14 year old girl at the same time? Does that get a double sentence?

It's so interesting reading actual posts from homophobic members of this community. Kelzie is valiantly trying to apply logic to people who have a phobia / prejudice / bigotry so logic is not a consideration.

We can write post after post about their homophobia, and they can write post after post proving their bigotry but they will never change their opinion because there is a severe lack of intelligence missing from anyone who hates someone for being gay.

So please, all of you Gay bashers keep posting your bigotry here! It's good for the majority of us who have more intelligence and less hate to reinforce how hate filled people still are despite decades of exposure to an enlightened view of homosexuality.

You know what's the really interesting part of this? How much time does the average person spend having sex in a week, hetero or homosexual? How much time do these same people spend in the rest of their lives, eating, working, socializing? Why would anyone judge their essence, their being by their sexual partner?

Stinger's posts are not simply about consenting sex between teenagers, they are about the lack of ability to accept people for who they are and the lack of intelligence displayed in those posts since the sex factor overrides everything else people do in their lives.

YIKES!!!

 

[Kelzie]

Translation? Look in the mirror Stinger! Writing homophobic post after homophobic post is a clear indication of prejudice, ignorance and bigotry.

Your point about an 18 year old woman having sex with a 14 year old boy is "better" than an 18 year old boy having sex with a 14 year old boy is the essence of prejudice and homophobia. You wrote a perfect scenario of what a prejudiced and bigoted person would write. Nice!

Using your very flawed logic then I guess an 18 year old boy having sex with a 14 year old girl would be worse than the 18 year old woman having sex with a 14 year old boy. How about an 18 year old lesbian having sex with a 14 year old lesbian? Where does that fall in your sentencing guidelines? :rofl

Hmm? How about an 18 year old BI-SEXUAL woman having sex with a 14 year old boy and a 14 year old girl at the same time? Does that get a double sentence?

It's so interesting reading actual posts from homophobic members of this community. Kelzie is valiantly trying to apply logic to people who have a phobia / prejudice / bigotry so logic is not a consideration.

We can write post after post about their homophobia, and they can write post after post proving their bigotry but they will never change their opinion because there is a severe lack of intelligence missing from anyone who hates someone for being gay.

So please, all of you Gay bashers keep posting your bigotry here! It's good for the majority of us who have more intelligence and less hate to reinforce how hate filled people still are despite decades of exposure to an enlightened view of homosexuality.

You know what's the really interesting part of this? How much time does the average person spend having sex in a week, hetero or homosexual? How much time do these same people spend in the rest of their lives, eating, working, socializing? Why would anyone judge their essence, their being by their sexual partner?

Stinger's posts are not simply about consenting sex between teenagers, they are about the lack of ability to accept people for who they are and the lack of intelligence displayed in those posts since the sex factor overrides everything else people do in their lives.

YIKES!!!

Yay! I'm valiant! :mrgreen:

 

[26 X World Champs]

Is and 18 year old guy and a 9 year old girl ok?

No one in this community is worthy of your greatness Navy Pride. You're the Michael Jordan of debating (or is it the Mike Brown?)

You're right, Kelzie and all of her "liberal" friends are totally into child sex. That is the point of this discussion, right?

You have a way of making a point that is unique and separates you from all others...which makes you a Frickin' Genius Navy Pride!

 

[Navy Pride]

It's really on a case by case basis. I understand why the line is drawn at 14, because there are a lot of 14 year-olds who are not ready mentally to have sex. But there are a lot who are. I draw the line at a point of mental maturity. So obviously after puberty. How far? Depends on the kid.

My daughter entered puberty at 11 so you are saying that it is alright for 18 year old man and a 11 year old child to engage in sexual intercourse?

 

[Kelzie]

My daughter entered puberty at 11 so you are saying that it is alright for 18 year old man and a 11 year old child to engage in sexual intercourse?

Well, did I say that?

 

[KrazyKarl]

Just wanted to touch on a few things.

Dating and having sex are the same thing???? Especially at 14 years old? Anyone who allows a 14 year old to date an 18 year should be brought up on charges to begin with. Any 18 year old who dates 14 year olds either needs to given some psyhcological help and have an injunction placed against them. There's two reasons why 18 year olds date 14 year olds, they have their own mental development problems and therefore 14 year olds do not have any business being involved with them in a relationship or they have figured out 14 year olds are easy prey. And yes it is more common, not fairly just more, than it was and that is not good. It is a black mark on our society that it is more acceptable because it indangers young children. There is a reason statutory rape laws were put in place to begin with and those reasons have not changed.

What a coincidence? That just so happens to be the case.

According to the AP, Limon and the other boy both lived at a group home for the developmentally disabled. The boy was described by an official as mildly mentally retarded, while Limon was described as functioning at a slightly higher level, but not at the level of an 18-year-old.

Source used in quote

According to Kansas state law, any sex with a person under the age of 16 is a crime. Since one was under the age of 16 (14 and 11 months) [source], the elder participant, 18 and 1 week old [source], under normal circumstances, should be held accountable. However, this all comes under question when, as you say, the boy is developmentally disabled. Assuming that the 18 year old boy can be held responsible for his actions, I will agree that he should be punished in accordance with the law.

That being said, I move onto this statement:

I find it extremely odd that anyone would term the lessening of penalties for child molestation a victory for anyone.

I do. It is a victory for anyone who believes in the values of the Constitution. The state of Kansas' Bill of Rights (Section 9) states,

All persons shall be bailable by sufficient sureties except for capital offenses, where proof is evident or the presumption great. Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishment inflicted.

By all accounts, this was a cruel and unusual punishment. Do you really belive that this "rape" deserves a punishment fourteen times as great as a "rape" between consentual heterosexual partners? Do you hold equal amounts of sympathy for a woman who is raped once by a woman and a woman who was raped 14 times by 14 men?

And its just as abnormal for them.........Without being to graphic, the Anus was designed for and out take not and in take........

According to this article and others like it, the sexual act was brief oral sex, not sodomy. That being said, the specific act has little to do with this case. The fact that it happened suffices.

Let me ask you something...do you think that the crime is more egregious when a heterosexual (male or female) commits an act of sexual misconduct with a minor who has identified him or herself as homosexual?

Yes. I don't think minor children are capable of making such indentifications and their emotional developements are subject to influence by such events. I start from the premise that "sexual orientation" is not genetic it is developmental. And I start from the premise that it is in the best interest of society to discourage homosexual behavior or encouragement.

I don't believe your premise. Especially the part about it being in society's best interest to discourage homosexual behavior. Also, if you don't think minor children are capable of determining their own sexuality, then I suppose sex between two males, 14 and 18, can't be "egregious," because you can't be sure that the 14 year old isn't homosexual.

We are HETEROSEXUAL as a species, why is it so hard for you to grasp the fundimental principle that HOMOSEXUALITY is an abnormal behavior for HETEROSEXUAL beings.

The last percentage I heard was that 4% of Americans were homosexual. The black population of Indiana, Pennsylvania is 5.19%. Are they then "abnormal" citizens of a white city?

What is so wrong with "abnormal" behaviors, mind you? Let heterosexuals be heterosexuals and homosexuals be homosexuals. Heck, let homosexuals defy their sexuality and date women, should it please them, and vice versa. After all, there is nothing in the Constitution regarding obeying the laws of nature.

 

[Navy Pride]

Well, did I say that?

Here is what you said.......So if and 11 year old is mature enough then it is fine with you.......

[QUOTEHow far? Depends on the kid.][/QUOTE]

 

[Kelzie]

Here is what you said.......So if and 11 year old is mature enough then it is fine with you.......

Well, she would have to have the mental maturity of a 15 year-old. And that's a little unlikely.

 

[Navy Pride]

Well, she would have to have the mental maturity of a 15 year-old. And that's a little unlikely.

How can you possibly know that?

 

[Kelzie]

How can you possibly know that?

Because it doesn't happen very often. She can be as smart as a 15 year-old. But that is a very different thing than maturity. Most girls at 11 are still playing with toys. Most girls at 15 are writing essays and gossiping about boys. There's a difference.

 

[Navy Pride]

Because it doesn't happen very often. She can be as smart as a 15 year-old. But that is a very different thing than maturity. Most girls at 11 are still playing with toys. Most girls at 15 are writing essays and gossiping about boys. There's a difference.

That is exactly why you have to have laws to set and age........Why can't you see that?

 

[Kelzie]

That is exactly why you have to have laws to set and age........Why can't you see that?

I freaken hate it when people read what they want to read, instead of what I actually wrote. Go back, read it, and get back to me.

 

[RightinNYC]

A quick reality check:

High school seniors go out with freshmen.

Straight couples engage in anal sex.

Do with this info what you will.

Booyakasha!

Well presented.

 

[RightinNYC]

And its just as abnormal for them.........Without being to graphic, the Anus was designed for and out take not and in take........

Oh come on, you were In The Navy, you can't tell me you and your swab mates never played Poke the Tailpipe...

 

[Navy Pride]

I freaken hate it when people read what they want to read, instead of what I actually wrote. Go back, read it, and get back to me.

I did and what you said is basicly if the child is mature mentally enough his or her age does not matter..........

 

[Kelzie]

I did and what you said is basicly if the child is mature mentally enough his or her age does not matter..........

You're right. It really doesn't. If a 13 year-old has the mental capacity and maturity of an 18 year-old, there's no reason why he/she shouldn't be granted the same rights. Realistically, this almost never happens, which is why most states have set the age of consent at 15. At 14 there is still a significant number of kids who are not at the correct level of maturation. However, it is ignorant to think that a birthday magically makes kids able to have sex. Realistically, many could have handled it before.

 

[BWG]

snip..

You know what's the really interesting part of this? How much time does the average person spend having sex in a week, hetero or homosexual? How much time do these same people spend in the rest of their lives, eating, working, socializing? Why would anyone judge their essence, their being by their sexual partner?

You know, reading through this thread and others concerning homosexuality, all the focus is on sex. There is soooo much more to a relationship than sex. Maybe that's why some are so vehemently against gay marriage. Let me ask a question, when you see two gay men together, do you automatically envision them having anal sex? What do you imagine when it's two gay women? When you see a man and a woman together, do you think about them having sex or do you just think they are a nice couple? Let me bolster this by observing that during the discussion about this case, some assumed that the homosexual act in question was anal, when in fact it was oral. Do you really think that homosexuality is nothing but one long wild, deviant sex party?

If you think marriage or a commitment to another human being is all about sex, maybe you should take a look at the divorce rate in this country.

 

[jallman]

You know, reading through this thread and others concerning homosexuality, all the focus is on sex. There is soooo much more to a relationship than sex. Maybe that's why some are so vehemently against gay marriage. Let me ask a question, when you see two gay men together, do you automatically envision them having anal sex? What do you imagine when it's two gay women? When you see a man and a woman together, do you think about them having sex or do you just think they are a nice couple? Let me bolster this by observing that during the discussion about this case, some assumed that the homosexual act in question was anal, when in fact it was oral. Do you really think that homosexuality is nothing but one long wild, deviant sex party?

If you think marriage or a commitment to another human being is all about sex, maybe you should take a look at the divorce rate in this country.

You know, you make a very excellent point. I always find myself highly amused by brain-children like jimmyj, navy pride (oh especially being the chief genius that he is), and stinger who cannot separate their own disdain for the sexual act from the legal and constitutional aspect of equal protection. It makes a profound statement about them and their ilk when a discussion concerning constitutionality is almost always turned to sex, and usually by those who express the most distaste for the topic. They will call the homosexual a pervert, yet it is they who dwell on the topic of what the homosexual does more than anyone else. Figure that logic out.

As for your last statement...when you take their obvious obsession with the sexual practices of others and hold it against the divorce rate (a divorce rate which is obviously the doing of the heterosexual population), it becomes evident that perhaps these guys need to take a good long look at their own marriages and relationships and what those relationships mean to them before they begin to dissect the sexual practices of others.

 

[Navy Pride]

You know, you make a very excellent point. I always find myself highly amused by brain-children like jimmyj, navy pride (oh especially being the chief genius that he is), and stinger who cannot separate their own disdain for the sexual act from the legal and constitutional aspect of equal protection. It makes a profound statement about them and their ilk when a discussion concerning constitutionality is almost always turned to sex, and usually by those who express the most distaste for the topic. They will call the homosexual a pervert, yet it is they who dwell on the topic of what the homosexual does more than anyone else. Figure that logic out.

As for your last statement...when you take their obvious obsession with the sexual practices of others and hold it against the divorce rate (a divorce rate which is obviously the doing of the heterosexual population), it becomes evident that perhaps these guys need to take a good long look at their own marriages and relationships and what those relationships mean to them before they begin to dissect the sexual practices of others.

You can believe what you want about me....I beleve that the anal intercourse is abnormal and perverted whether performed by gays or straights..I do no discriminate in that area.........That said I could care less if you engage in it or not...........

My only argument against gays is gay marriage............I am totally against that for the reasons I have cited over and over again............I do believe in Civil Unions with full benefits......

As far as the divorce issue goes, its true the divorce rate is around 50% but the pecentage is very badly skewed because of the high divorce rate of young people getting divorces......When you get up to age of 30 or over you will find the divorce rate is much lower........

 

[RightinNYC]

You can believe what you want about me....I beleve that the anal intercourse is abnormal and perverted whether performed by gays or straights..I do no discriminate in that area.........That said I could care less if you engage in it or not...........

My only argument against gays is gay marriage............I am totally against that for the reasons I have cited over and over again............I do believe in Civil Unions with full benefits......

As far as the divorce issue goes, its true the divorce rate is around 50% but the pecentage is very badly skewed because of the high divorce rate of young people getting divorces......When you get up to age of 30 or over you will find the divorce rate is much lower........

It's good that you recognize that your own personal beliefs as to what sexual acts between two consenting adults are none of your business, and you have no right to legislate there. We're making progress with you, Navy.:lol:

Why should the governent recognize marriage at all? I think everyone who wants to marry another person should get a civil union which offers some sort of tax benefits, sharing of property, hospital access rights, etc.

 

[DeeJayH]

Since you appear to have problems figuring it out, I'll give you some help. When rabbits can't support their young, the body absorbs them. When humans are having too many children, there is a higher chance that they'll be gay, thus stopping the reproductive line. Both are mechanisms nature has developed to slow down reproduction. Make more sense?

where in the world do you get this
and reading into it, it sounds like you see some higher intelligence intervening in the sexual orientation of species to control the populations
Personally i think gays are entitled to every protection and right under the law
Just as i think Blind people, retarded people and any other person with any type of aberration should

No animal has gotten on the face of this planet through homosexual reproduction.
It is abnormal.
however it is not a choice they made
I never chose to be straight, but i am
homosexuality, genetic sterility, retardation, mutations all are anomalies
not their fault
not their choice
and they should not be treated differently as a result of how they were born
but it does not make them normal, if there is such a thing :lol: