A small example of the trouble with illegals and American workers.

[dobieg]

Supposedly raising wages 40% will put businesses out of business across the country and make Americans do much worse.

That's what I hear from rightwingers.

I have no problem whatsoever with Americans getting big pay raises as long as it's based on sound economic principles rather than some boneheaded scheme that ignores workforce equilibrium.

 

[Cardinal]

I have no problem whatsoever with Americans getting big pay raises as long as it's based on sound economic principles rather than some boneheaded scheme that ignores workforce equilibrium.

Let me repeat a question I haven't gotten an answer to: what penalties did the bakery pay for hiring 800 illegal aliens?

 

[dobieg]

What’s wrong, not enough current bad news so you went back to February of last year to find something you could turn into a fake anti-Dem thread? Really pathetic. The primary point of the article was about tensions between blacks and Mexicans within a community, not illegal workers, and not the Democratic Party.


Gloms onto fake anti-Dem thread. Pathetic X2.

Considering that our government is currently shutdown over the hot topic of illegal immigration and the Wall, I thought it was pertinent to our current situation to show why many of us support Trump's immigration policies.


If this frustrates you and makes you want to pull out your hair, may I suggest you move on and blow snot in another thread.

 

[Cardinal]

Considering that our government is currently shutdown over the hot topic of illegal immigration and the Wall, I thought it was pertinent to our current situation to show why many of us support Trump's immigration policies.


If this frustrates you and makes you want to pull out your hair, may I suggest you move on and blow snot in another thread.

Charming.

 

[dobieg]

Let me repeat a question I haven't gotten an answer to: what penalties did the bakery pay for hiring 800 illegal aliens?

I fully support your position of harshly punishing those employers who exploit illegal workers at the expense of American workers.


I would hazard to guess we would have a similar position on H1b visas as well as companies exploit foreign labor to the detriment of American workers.

 

[Cardinal]

I fully support your position of harshly punishing those employers who exploit illegal workers at the expense of American workers.


I would hazard to guess we would have a similar position on H1b visas as well as companies exploit foreign labor to the detriment of American workers.

Well, maybe we should try that first, because hiring 800 illegal aliens means they had zero fear of the law.

 

[jnug]

With all due respect the whole lot of you are all wet.

Yes illegals being paid lower wages is an issue. No nitwit Wall is going to solve that problem. It is a multilayer, multidimensional problem spanning government and business.

1) Our ex-border unauthorized immigrant problem is entirely from Central America. Deal with the issues that drive those people from their homes to cross a border 2,000 miles to their north, many of them issues that WE either created or exacerbated.
2) We need better and faster processing of asylum seekers so that they don't just end up incarcerated for extended periods or wandering around the countryside for extended periods. Neither holding them nor letting them wander around is an answer. Process them quickly and either accept them or send them back!
3) Repurpose ICE so that a much larger component of its budgetary authority goes to ferreting out "businesses" that deal in fake ID's and other phony documents and funneling illegals into legitimate jobs here. Stiffen the penalties for companies that hire illegals.
4) Last and least AND I DO MEAN LEAST......improve border security including physical barrier where its an effective tool which is far short of the Orange Buffoon's miles and miles of anything that is physical barrier especially a concrete WALL!

This will take separate Legislative efforts with all parties involved. We need a Border Security Appropriation that makes sense, based on whatever DHS is cooking up to send up the line to the President to be sent on to Congress in the form of a proposal for a determination of what Congress wants to fund. Of course, Trump does not want to present a proposal to Congress now does he and we all know why. TO BAD Donald. You get nothing at all without having sent Congress a proposal for them to judge and decide what to fund. A second piece of Legislation will have to be cobbled together to deal with Immigration Policy, DACA and TPS. ICE would fall into this second piece of Legislation on Immigration Policy. More Immigration Judges and faster processing for asylum seekers would also fall into this second Bil.

Do not under any circumstances fall into the trap of trying to combine an Appropriation for Border Security with Immigration Policy all under one Bill. All you end up with is proponents of a particular kind of Immigration Policy piling all their chips on one side and proponents of a particular type of Border Security piling up all their chips on the other side with everybody dealing away anything worth a darn for either border security or immigration policy and the taxpayer losing on all sides. These combination deal Bills are sloppy, lousy, cheap, chiseling pieces of Legislation and everybody loses except the politicians who get to declare victory all around when in fact the taxpayer, the American citizen loses all around. Lock these idiots in separate rooms by committee assignments and make them work till they get it done. Then assuming this all happens in the next two years, take the Orange Buffoon's rattles and teething rings and his smartphone away from him and make him sign the darned things!

My God these "Lets make a Deal" pieces of Legislation have become so pervasive that we now have whole generations of young Americans that actually think the utterly mutated process we have now including trying to divine what a President will or will not sign is actually THE PROCESS of producing good legislation. Its enough to make me puke.

 

[Bullseye]

Yeah, and that law is really scaring the crap out of companies. The bakery hired 800 illegal immigrants. It's possible it's in the article and I'm missing it, but I found nothing about penalties.

Dig deeper. The were caught because of a "immigration audit". Something is likely to come from that.

 

[Lovebug]

Clearly the law against hiring illegal aliens itself isn't enough. Really strict penalties for wage discrimination would also remove the incentive for hiring illegal aliens in the first place.

Very true, and many are found out
https://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/20/us/tyson-foods-indicted-in-plan-to-smuggle-illegal-workers.html
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/article9015173.html
Nearly 600 detained in Miss. plant raid - US news - Crime & courts | NBC News
https://www.meatpoultry.com/articles/18211-ice-raids-tennessee-meatpacking-plant

 

[Lovebug]

Now rightwingers are in favor of factory workers getting a 40% wage hike?

Okaaaaay.

Illegal workers weren't paid their fair share.

 

[Lovebug]

Yeah, and that law is really scaring the crap out of companies. The bakery hired 800 illegal immigrants. It's possible it's in the article and I'm missing it, but I found nothing about penalties.

It will be forthcoming, let's hope.
Does anyone wonder how consumers will react when the increase in wages will be passed down?

 

[Mycroft]

Rather than make this a Republican/Democrat issue, this actually has a very simple solution. Make a Federal law making it illegal to wage discriminate based on nationality...regardless of the status of employees' citizenship. And of course make the penalties debilitating enough to discourage breaking the rules.

Don't need more laws. Just need to enforce the ones we already have...as we see from this article.

 

[Mycroft]

Here’s a clue; two words beginning with “H” you should avoid: “hyperbole and hypocrite/hypocritical!” yvw..

I have to use those words...along with a couple words that begin with "S", one that begins with "I" and another that begins with "L". They are all necessary when talking about liberals and Trump haters.

 

[Lovebug]

Supposedly raising wages 40% will put businesses out of business across the country and make Americans do much worse.

That's what I hear from rightwingers.

That could happen, but I don't think that is a defense for hiring illegals. Many a post say that employers need to be held accountable for hiring illegals, posts by left and right leaning members. E verify and other measures must be part of a comprehensive immigration plan. Nothing wrong with that. I have argued for a long time that a wall, or a border, or any one barrier isn't stopping the flood of immigrants unless incentives are taken into consideration.
You can throw out "rightwingers" all day long if it makes you feel good. I assume you are speaking of minimum wage increase discussions, where the argument is made that pay increases may put companies out of business. That has nothing to do with illegals taking potential jobs away from citizens who want to work to feed their families. I am not sure about state by state laws, but assume that illegal workers are being taken advantage of, not only by paying them lower wages, but less than adequate working conditions. How many of those who are being taken
advantage of dare to complain? That is the real tragedy of it all.
JFFT

 

[Cardinal]

Don't need more laws. Just need to enforce the ones we already have...as we see from this article.

Clearly that's not true.

 

[Cardinal]

It will be forthcoming, let's hope.
Does anyone wonder how consumers will react when the increase in wages will be passed down?

Yup. Americans hate illegal immigrants, but they looooove the low prices.

 

[chuckiechan]

Isn't it illegal to pay someone a lower salary just for being of a different race or nationality?

Ah yes, here we go:



https://www.mbradylaw.com/kansas-ci.../09/29/wage-discrimination-based-race-gender/

This gets back to my overarching argument that the government is ****ing you, and you are so used to it it seems normal. Like the “Stocholm Syndrome”. You are more conditioned to believe the nice men and women who are ****ing you.

If you pay attention most politicians when asked a question, touch it, then talk past it. The truth is ugly, brutal, and unsettling. For their own survival, politicians really see the “third rail of politics” to be to telling the truth.

 

[Lovebug]

Clearly that's not true.

That is true. Our current laws have too many loopholes. We have to revise our immigration laws to streamline our immigration process. Many people want to live here, work here, prosper. Our process is rather cumbersome and may have worked at one time. Why not have a constructive discussion about it?

 

[Cardinal]

This gets back to my overarching argument that the government is ****ing you, and you are so used to it it seems normal. Like the “Stocholm Syndrome”. You are more conditioned to believe the nice men and women who are ****ing you.

If you pay attention most politicians when asked a question, touch it, then talk past it. The truth is ugly, brutal, and unsettling. For their own survival, politicians really see the “third rail of politics” to be to telling the truth.

Well, actually, the government in this case isn't ****ing me. That cheap labor is definitely making its way to my produce prices. If or when all companies are forced to pay everybody the same high price because, let's just play pretend, all the undocumented workers disappear, we'll all be paying much higher prices in just about every sector.

 

[Lovebug]

Yup. Americans hate illegal immigrants, but they looooove the low prices.

Case and point. Years ago, I think it may have been on the Oprah show, they showed working conditions in India. The lady they were showing made so little money, she lived in a dirty shack and couldn't even afford a table. She was making jeans in a factory. So they interviewed people, asking them if they were willing to pay one more $ (if memory serves me), and they said no.
Really sad, considering that, even though many of us are considered poor, we have ....

 

[pinqy]

Isn't it illegal to pay someone a lower salary just for being of a different race or nationality?

Ah yes, here we go:



https://www.mbradylaw.com/kansas-ci.../09/29/wage-discrimination-based-race-gender/

I’m not sure of your point here. Do you think illegal immigrants can file a GLSA complaint with DOL?
It makes no difference st all whether or not paying less to foreigners not authorized to work is legal or not.

 

[Cardinal]

I’m not sure of your point here. Do you think illegal immigrants can file a GLSA complaint with DOL?
It makes no difference st all whether or not paying less to foreigners not authorized to work is legal or not.

No. But an additional penalty for wage discrimination on top of whatever penalty there is for hiring undocumented workers diminishes incentive to hire them in the first place. We're all aware that they're being exploited and are not in a position to go to the authorities. Only the principle of sanctuary cities addresses that.

 

[Lovebug]

No. But an additional penalty for wage discrimination on top of whatever penalty there is for hiring undocumented workers diminishes incentive to hire them in the first place. We're all aware that they're being exploited and are not in a position to go to the authorities. Only the principle of sanctuary cities addresses that.

Does anyone remember the roofer who got in trouble many (ten or more) years ago, because he was protesting other roofing companies? He faced jail time. From memory (I can't find a link), he was outbidded repeatedly because, hiring illegal workers, they were more competitive. He tried so hard to make his case, for anyone to listen. Ok, just one case. Is it really?

 

[Pedestrian]

The Dems are hypocritical that way.

So now the dems support fake documentation ? Not even a nice try.


It's the right (GOP) who love illegals, they are...a profit center.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Considering that our government is currently shutdown over the hot topic of illegal immigration and the Wall, I thought it was pertinent to our current situation to show why many of us support Trump's immigration policies.


If this frustrates you and makes you want to pull out your hair, may I suggest you move on and blow snot in another thread.

The current partial government shutdown is due to Trump’s need to appease his base in order to keep their support.

The year old article centered around a group of illegals (many in the U.S. for years, and paying taxes) working in a bakery for low wages, and tensions with members of the local black community.

Your intent in starting this thread was clear, to frame it as an excuse to attack Dems, not as an honest opening to a discussion of illegal immigration.

Factually, complicit hiring by businesses motivated by greed has been a problem for a long time, under BOTH parties.