A simple Yes or No with a short explanation.

[heyjoeo]

Sure they can drop off a newborn infant no questions asked, but what's going to end up happening to that child? Oh wait adoption. Good game you didn't prove anything.

 

[Fantasea]

Sure they can drop off a newborn infant no questions asked, but what's going to end up happening to that child? Oh wait adoption. Good game you didn't prove anything.

You didn't even thank me for the educational information. How ungrateful is that?

Oh, wait. If you thanked me, it would be an admission that there was a gaping hole in your argument, wouldn't it?

That's OK, I understand.

By the way, have you ever met an unwanted or underprivileged child who expressed regret at having been born?

 

[argexpat]

They're still trying to find the 'unwanted' child who regrets having been born.

Suicide is the third leading cause of death among teenagers, and has tripled since 1952. (Call it "self-inflicted abortion.") Statistically, at least one of these teens must have been "unwanted." Therefore, your statement is false.

 

[Fantasea]

Suicide is the third leading cause of death among teenagers, and has tripled since 1952. (Call it "self-inflicted abortion.") Statistically, at least one of these teens must have been "unwanted." Therefore, your statement is false.

So, your favorite sport is 'clutching at straws'.

I will grant that nothing in this world is absolute. However, since all you have is a factor with no actual numbers or reasoning to connect to it, consider the changes in 'teen life' since 1952.

I wonder how much resonsibility may rest with the substance abuse, MTV, and metrosexual cultures for the following signs that may indicate suicidal tendencies such as:

change in eating and sleeping habits
withdrawal from friends, family, and regular activities
violent actions, rebellious behavior, or running away
drug and alcohol use
unusual neglect of personal appearance
marked personality change
persistent boredom, difficulty concentrating, or a decline in the quality of schoolwork
frequent complaints about physical symptoms, often related to emotions, such as stomachaches, headaches, fatigue, etc.
loss of interest in pleasurable activities
not tolerating praise or rewards​

 

[heyjoeo]

Fant you are running in circles. You say that a child can be dropped off no questions asked. What happens to that child when it gets dropped off? It goes up for adoption. However, adoption hardly ever works out for a child. If you got married, you would want to make your own children with your new wife. If you couldn't have children you would probably **resort** to adoption. These children are bounced around from foster homes to foster homes.

In one study, more than 80% of those adopting independently or through a private agency responded that the inability to have a biological child was the reason they chose to adopt. By contrast, only half of those adopting from foster care cited infertility as the reason for their decision. It is estimated that 11% to 24% of couples who experience difficulty conceiving or carrying a pregnancy to term pursue adoption.

I'll get you more information but the bell is going to ring at school.

 

[Jufarius87]

:rofl excellent logic heyjoeo better to be DEAD than poor or lower class :rofl

absolutly not we should not kill out of convienience this is murder and in all or near all medical cases getting an abortion is more of a health risk to the mother and in some abortion the baby is delivered almost naturally anyways

 

[Fantasea]

Fant you are running in circles. You say that a child can be dropped off no questions asked. What happens to that child when it gets dropped off? It goes up for adoption. However, adoption hardly ever works out for a child. If you got married, you would want to make your own children with your new wife. If you couldn't have children you would probably **resort** to adoption. These children are bounced around from foster homes to foster homes.

You give new meaning to the old espression, "Killing with kindness."

In one study, more than 80% of those adopting independently or through a private agency responded that the inability to have a biological child was the reason they chose to adopt. By contrast, only half of those adopting from foster care cited infertility as the reason for their decision. It is estimated that 11% to 24% of couples who experience difficulty conceiving or carrying a pregnancy to term pursue adoption.

That's the beauty of adoption, isn't it? It unites a sad child with a sad couple and suddenly happiness blooms for all. Regardless of why the connection occurred, everyone benefited greatly from the fact that it did.

What pleasure can you derive from trying to look for ulterior motives. Why not celebrate the joyousness of the occasion. You'll feel better for it.

I'll get you more information but the bell is going to ring at school.

While you're looking for information, check out this one:

http://naic.acf.hhs.gov/pubs/s_adopted/index.cfm

Check out their home page, too.

 

[heyjoeo]

Wow. Ok. But how often does that happen? There are so many more kids that don't get adopted. I can't find the statistics but I will eventually.

First off, in this statement...
You give new meaning to the old espression, "Killing with kindness."

doesn't argue anything, mainly because my point wasn't about abortion, but merely my opinion on the adoption process which I backed up in the other half with data about percent adopting because of infertility. You didn't even give a rebuttle.

 

[Fantasea]

Wow. Ok. But how often does that happen? There are so many more kids that don't get adopted. I can't find the statistics but I will eventually.

First off, in this statement...
You give new meaning to the old espression, "Killing with kindness."

doesn't argue anything, mainly because my point wasn't about abortion, but merely my opinion on the adoption process which I backed up in the other half with data about percent adopting because of infertility. You didn't even give a rebuttle.

The thrust of every one of your posts is that abortion is the universal solution.

One cannot disparage every alternative put forth and reasonably consider himself to be reasonable.

 

[heyjoeo]

That is an option, so is THE PILL. I never limited myself to just abortion.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Yes.
Many people do not believe that life begins at conception and can justify abortion in thier own consciences. If you disagree, don't have an abortion, but don't attempt to limit the freedom of choice for others. Especially not if you are a man (not your body) or motivated by religion: keep that crap in your church and stop ramming it down our throats please.

 

[Fantasea]

Yes.
Many people do not believe that life begins at conception and can justify abortion in thier own consciences. If you disagree, don't have an abortion, but don't attempt to limit the freedom of choice for others. Especially not if you are a man (not your body) or motivated by religion: keep that crap in your church and stop ramming it down our throats please.

Given the advances made in the fields of science, obstetrics, and genetics in the last twenty years, and considering the technoligical advances made with scanning equipment that shows real-time motion pictures of a child cavorting within the womb, and given the fact that 'preemies' weighing less than a can of Coke, at birth, are presently attending school, there is no need to introduce religion into the abortion debate. It is best discussed as a strictly secular matter.

Those who discuss abortion on the basis of religion cannot prove anything.

During the runup to Roe v. Wade, persons of good conscience could honestly say, "We just don't know". However, all the secular proof necessary to show that abortion, even in the earliest stages of pregnancy, kills a living, human child is now available to anyone who wishes to know the truth.

It would seem that one who has chosen a part of the human anatomy as part of a screen name would have an interest in knowing about such things.

Have you such an interest?

 

[Urethra Franklin]

However, all the secular proof necessary to show that abortion, even in the earliest stages of pregnancy, kills a living, human child is now available to anyone who wishes to know the truth.

That's a contradiction

It would seem that one who has chosen a part of the human anatomy as part of a screen name would have an interest in knowing about such things. ?

How do you know it's not my real name?

And is your screen name chosen because you live in fantasy land?

Have you such an interest?

Yes

 

[Fantasea]

Originally Posted by Fantasea
However, all the secular proof necessary to show that abortion, even in the earliest stages of pregnancy, kills a living, human child is now available to anyone who wishes to know the truth.



That's a contradiction

I disagree. See Below

Originally Posted by Fantasea
It would seem that one who has chosen a part of the human anatomy as part of a screen name would have an interest in knowing about such things. ?




How do you know it's not my real name?

I did not comment on that aspect of the name. However Merriam Webster’s defines it this way:

Main Entry: ure·thra
Pronunciation: yu-'rE-thr&
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s):* plural -thras or ure·thrae /-(")thrE/
Etymology: Late Latin, from Greek ourEthra, from ourein to urinate
Date: 1634
: the canal that in most mammals carries off the urine from the bladder and in the male serves also as a genital duct

I wondered whether it was a play on words for the pop singer Aretha Franklin.

And is your screen name chosen because you live in fantasy land?

No, I live in the land of the free and the hone of the brave. The name was lettered on the stern of a very beautiful sloop.

Originally Posted by Fantasea
Have you such an interest?


Yes

Try this for starters. Any factual refutation would be welcomed.

In 1981 (April 23-24) a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee held hearings on the very question before us here: When does human life begin? Appearing to speak on behalf of the scientific community was a group of internationally-known geneticists and biologists who had the same story to tell, namely, that human life begins at conception - and they told their story with a profound absence of opposing testimony.

Dr. Micheline M. Mathews-Roth, Harvard medical School, gave confirming testimony, supported by references from over 20 embryology and other medical textbooks that human life began at conception.

"Father of Modern Genetics" Dr. Jerome Lejeune told the lawmakers: "To accept the fact that after fertilization has taken place a new human has come into being is no longer a matter of taste or opinion ... it is plain experimental evidence."

Dr. Hymie Gordon, Chairman, Department of Genetics at the Mayo Clinic, added: "By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception."

Dr. McCarthy de Mere, medical doctor and law professor, University of Tennessee, testified: "The exact moment of the beginning of personhood and of the human body is at the moment of conception."

Dr. Alfred Bongiovanni, University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, concluded, "I am no more prepared to say that these early stages represent an incomplete human being than I would be to say that the child prior to the dramatic effects of puberty ... is not a human being."

Dr. Richard V. Jaynes: "To say that the beginning of human life cannot be determined scientifically is utterly ridiculous."

Dr. Landrum Shettles, sometimes called the "Father of In Vitro Fertilization" notes, "Conception confers life and makes that life one of a kind." And on the Supreme Court ruling _Roe v. Wade_, "To deny a truth [about when life begins] should not be made a basis for legalizing abortion."

Professor Eugene Diamond: "...either the justices were fed a backwoods biology or they were pretending ignorance about a scientific certainty."

 

[Urethra Franklin]

I wondered whether it was a play on words for the pop singer Aretha Franklin.."

Wow you're clever. You'll go far.
Gosh, you could even be European.

No, I live in the land of the free and the hone of the brave..."

I thought you lived in the USA? I was mistaken.

Try this for starters. Any factual refutation would be welcomed.

In 1981 (April 23-24) a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee held hearings on the very question before us here: When does human life begin? Appearing to speak on behalf of the scientific community was a group of internationally-known geneticists and biologists who had the same story to tell, namely, that human life begins at conception - and they told their story with a profound absence of opposing testimony.

Dr. Micheline M. Mathews-Roth, Harvard medical School, gave confirming testimony, supported by references from over 20 embryology and other medical textbooks that human life began at conception.

"Father of Modern Genetics" Dr. Jerome Lejeune told the lawmakers: "To accept the fact that after fertilization has taken place a new human has come into being is no longer a matter of taste or opinion ... it is plain experimental evidence."

Dr. Hymie Gordon, Chairman, Department of Genetics at the Mayo Clinic, added: "By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception."

Dr. McCarthy de Mere, medical doctor and law professor, University of Tennessee, testified: "The exact moment of the beginning of personhood and of the human body is at the moment of conception."

Dr. Alfred Bongiovanni, University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, concluded, "I am no more prepared to say that these early stages represent an incomplete human being than I would be to say that the child prior to the dramatic effects of puberty ... is not a human being."

Dr. Richard V. Jaynes: "To say that the beginning of human life cannot be determined scientifically is utterly ridiculous."

Dr. Landrum Shettles, sometimes called the "Father of In Vitro Fertilization" notes, "Conception confers life and makes that life one of a kind." And on the Supreme Court ruling _Roe v. Wade_, "To deny a truth [about when life begins] should not be made a basis for legalizing abortion."

Professor Eugene Diamond: "...either the justices were fed a backwoods biology or they were pretending ignorance about a scientific certainty."

I could find a million counter quotes, but what would be the point? Some of us can make up our own minds and argue with our own intellectual analysis of given facts, rather than simply citing one quote after another. Are you for real? And I thought you were so smart after you'd worked out the Aretha connection. Well: "I say a little prayer for yoooo"

 

[Naughty Nurse]

Urethra, stop wasting your time. Fantasea is like a demon possessed and just won't let it go.

And I have to add, "Oh, gosh, Urethra isn't your real name? It's a reference to Aretha Franklin? Well, knock me over with a feather!"

Are you a urologist?

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Urethra, stop wasting your time. Fantasea is like a demon possessed and just won't let it go.

And I have to add, "Oh, gosh, Urethra isn't your real name? It's a reference to Aretha Franklin? Well, knock me over with a feather!"

Are you a urologist?

My father named me Urethra after the foley catheter that was his friend throughout his prostate resection. A nice yellowy/brown three way with irrigation she was: a beauty.

 

[Naughty Nurse]

Urethra, that is such a touching story. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Fantasea]

Wow you're clever. You'll go far.
Gosh, you could even be European.

Whenever I hear someone say say 'European', I look around to see who's making the puddle. I don't want to step in it with bare feet.

I thought you lived in the USA? I was mistaken.

Don't feel confused, there's lot of that going around these days.

I could find a million counter quotes,

Kindly post a few from persons with backgrounds similar to those I have quoted. If you do, you will have the honor of being the first to do so. Please don't disappoint me.

but what would be the point?

I am a reasonable person. Show me the right stuff and you'll win me over to your side.

Some of us can make up our own minds and argue with our own intellectual analysis of given facts,

A fact is a fact. Facts are not open to analysis or interpretation. If something is open to analysis or interpretation, it may be a theory, an idea, an assumption, a belief, or such, but certainly not a fact.

rather than simply citing one quote after another.

Give the 'physical' limitations of electronic communication, that is the best one can do in advancing a civil argument.

Are you for real?

Oh yes, quite real. There is nothing ethereal about me.

[quoteAnd I thought you were so smart after you'd worked out the Aretha connection. Well: "I say a little prayer for yoooo"

Somehow, it seems that if Aretha, the Queen of Soul, was sitting on your lap, singing only to you, the titles from her repertoire that she would choose if she wanted you to get a message might be:

“Who's Zoomin' Who” “Get It Right” “Nobody Like You” “Laughing On The Outside“ “Trouble In Mind” “Think” “Are You Sure” “Precious” “Memories” “Here Today And Gone Tomorrow” “There is a Fountain Filled With Blood” “A Rose Is Still A Rose”

“Hey Now Hey” “Pretender” “Everybody's Somebody's Fool” “Try A Little Tenderness” “Won't Be Long” “You'll Lose A Good Thing” “It's Your Thing”

If you got her message, you might respond to her with these:

“Maybe I'm A Fool “ “Jump To It” “Climbing Higher Mountains” “How I Got Over” “I Say A Little Prayer” “Save Me” “My Sweet Lord” “Willing To Forgive” “Amazing Grace” “You Grow Closer” “Over The Rainbow”

“A Brand New Me” “Something He Can Feel” “Rock Steady” “Walk On By” “So Swell When You're Well” “Just For a Thrill” “Sparkle”

She would would nod in understanding, shine that beautiful smile of hers on you and close with:

“Unforgettable”

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Dear Fantasea,
Please learn to quote properly. Your misuse of the computer is rather annoying.
A fact is a fact? OK, well I'll point you in the direction Jean Baudrillard's "Simulacra and Simulation" or Michel Foucault's "The History of Sexuality, Volume 3" We live in a post modern world honey. You have to be a little more intelligent than to rely on "it's a fact" That's what wrong with your nation - simplicity in power. The world's far more complex.
Your knowledge of Aretha's repertoire is impressive, though you missed out my favourite: "Don't Play That Song" And that's exactly what I'd advise you to do.

Love,
pH 6 NAD

 

[Fantasea]

Dear Fantasea,
Please learn to quote properly. Your misuse of the computer is rather annoying.
A fact is a fact? OK, well I'll point you in the direction Jean Baudrillard's "Simulacra and Simulation" or Michel Foucault's "The History of Sexuality, Volume 3" We live in a post modern world honey. You have to be a little more intelligent than to rely on "it's a fact" That's what wrong with your nation - simplicity in power. The world's far more complex.
Your knowledge of Aretha's repertoire is impressive, though you missed out my favourite: "Don't Play That Song" And that's exactly what I'd advise you to do.

Love,
pH 6 NAD

I was unaware that I was annoying you. That certainly was not my intention. My efforts are directed toward edification regarding human creation not the fomentation of botheration, irritation, vexation, or frustration.

I guess that what you are telling me, indirectly, is that you are unable to furnish factual rebuttal to the dozen or so experts I quoted who, on the basis of facts established as a result of collaborative research in their respective fields, agree unanimously, and have never been challenged, that human life begins at conception.

That's too bad. I was hopeful that you might be the one who could do it. Pity.

I considered your favorite, however it didn't seem to fit the story being woven.

 

[Naughty Nurse]

I guess that what you are telling me, indirectly, is that you are unable to furnish factual rebuttal to the dozen or so experts I quoted who,

Fantasea,

Either I'm stuck in some awful time-loop, or you're still banging out the same old story.

I hope it's the latter!

Have a pint of Guiness :drink and chill out!

 

[argexpat]

However, all the secular proof necessary to show that abortion, even in the earliest stages of pregnancy, kills a living, human child is now available to anyone who wishes to know the truth.

Some of us already "know the truth," Fantasea, and yet we still believe that abortion should be legal, safe and a woman's choice. In fact, most people believe that.

 

[Fantasea]

Fantasea,

Either I'm stuck in some awful time-loop, or you're still banging out the same old story.

I hope it's the latter!

Have a pint of Guiness :drink and chill out!

Close your eyes, bury your head in the sand, ignore, deny, do anything you wish. However, the one thing you cannot do is escape the truth.

 

[Fantasea]

Some of us already "know the truth," Fantasea, and yet we still believe that abortion should be legal, safe and a woman's choice. In fact, most people believe that.

When one in three pregnancies ends in abortion, it's no longer a safe, legal, choice. Infanticide would be accurate.