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A serious question for my friends from the left in this forum

Navy Pride said:
So if you had a 22 year old daughter you would have no problem with her giving her 55 year old married boss BJs in his office?

I'll one up ya. If my husband acted like Clinton, I would divorce him. If my father did, I'd give him the cold shoulder for at least a couple months. If it was my daughter...eh, probably make sure she knows that it isn't going to develop into an actual relationship, but that's about it. A BJ's a BJ. Doesn't really matter if it's a one night stand with a 25 year-old or the president as far as I'm concerned. In fact, there's a couple hottie old guys out there. How old's John Travolta?

Point is, Clinton is not my dad, or my husband and Lewinsky's not my daughter. So I don't care.
 
Kelzie said:
I'll one up ya. If my husband acted like Clinton, I would divorce him. If my father did, I'd give him the cold shoulder for at least a couple months. If it was my daughter...eh, probably make sure she knows that it isn't going to develop into an actual relationship, but that's about it. A BJ's a BJ. Doesn't really matter if it's a one night stand with a 25 year-old or the president as far as I'm concerned. In fact, there's a couple hottie old guys out there. How old's John Travolta?

Point is, Clinton is not my dad, or my husband and Lewinsky's not my daughter. So I don't care.

Yes but shouldn't a president have some respect for the office? This guy had 5 or 6 women accuse him of various things..........Don't good morals mean anything anymore?
 
Kandahar said:
Actually, yes, he did. The Taliban is resurging in Afghanistan, Islamic extremism is on the rise, and the world as a whole is MORE at-risk of terrorism today than it was prior to 9/11.

You think this behaviour is on the rise? Why because you hadn't paid it much attention before America decided to face it?

I have news for you, it's been on the rise and acts of war have been carried out long before America decided to divert its attention from MTV and actually look at the world around it.


Kandahar said:
Are we living in the same country? Yes, that was an abysmal failure. One of the worst ****-ups of his entire presidency, and that's saying a lot.

In this great Republic of ours, the President cannot order the National Guard into any state while the local Government is still able, or until it has asked for the declaration of disaster relief.

The worst •••-up was on the part of the bickering local government.


Kandahar said:
He's literally failed at every single thing he's done. That's really hard to do...even other presidents who I would have disliked had SOMETHING to show after five years in office.

You can't judge a thing until it is finished. The war in Iraq is far from over and therefore can not be subjected to either definitive condemnations, or absolute praise. Time will tell if it was the right move and if it made us safe in the long run.

As for his other efforts, I haven't paid much attention to the Presidents attempts at changing Social Security or what have you, so I'll have to defer to those who know better if he failed there or anywhere else...
 
galenrox said:
Good morals mean something. Good ideas and good results mean a lot more.


And a Republican controlled Congress does not hurt either...........
 
Been a few hours so I'll just give the cliff notes...

Kelzie - Go watch "Wag the Dog"...

Tecoyah - Nobody realized how bad Clinton was on terrorism UNTIL 911...then we saw how his decisions were worthless...

Navy Pride - I see the horseblinders are as tight as usual...Keep up the bad work...I know you will...

galenrox - Keep on keepin' on...

VTA - Nice kid...
 
cnredd said:
Been a few hours so I'll just give the cliff notes...

Kelzie - Go watch "Wag the Dog"...

Tecoyah - Nobody realized how bad Clinton was on terrorism UNTIL 911...then we saw how his decisions were worthless...

Navy Pride - I see the horseblinders are as tight as usual...Keep up the bad work...I know you will...

galenrox - Keep on keepin' on...

VTA - Nice kid...

If you call it bad work then I am thrilled.....At least I know where you stand.............Don't ever change ok..............
 
cnredd said:
Been a few hours so I'll just give the cliff notes...

Kelzie - Go watch "Wag the Dog"...

Tecoyah - Nobody realized how bad Clinton was on terrorism UNTIL 911...then we saw how his decisions were worthless...

Navy Pride - I see the horseblinders are as tight as usual...Keep up the bad work...I know you will...

galenrox - Keep on keepin' on...

VTA - Nice kid...

You notice he didnt mention me :lol: .
 
SKILMATIC said:
You notice he didnt mention me :lol: .

I only report on things worthwhile(rimshot!)...:2wave:
 
SKILMATIC said:
O I see how it is, I am not worth it anymore? ;)

You make it sound like at one time you were...:doh :2wave:
 
cnredd said:
Been a few hours so I'll just give the cliff notes...

Kelzie - Go watch "Wag the Dog"...

Tecoyah - Nobody realized how bad Clinton was on terrorism UNTIL 911...then we saw how his decisions were worthless...

Navy Pride - I see the horseblinders are as tight as usual...Keep up the bad work...I know you will...

galenrox - Keep on keepin' on...

VTA - Nice kid...

What? Hello! I made a blatant reference to Wag the Dog. Blatant! Girl scout? War in Iraq? Said it was crap...that international affairs don't really operate like that? Ringing any bells?

And you still haven't addressed the fact that Clinton did more to fight OBL than Bush did before 9/11.
 
Navy Pride said:
Dude (can't believe I am using that word, thought it went out in the seventies)I was talking to Kelzie..........

In other words...

I dont have to be reasonable, I'm stone cold chief navy and I said so...

RINO 316 ohhhh yeah :rofl
 
SKILMATIC said:
You notice he didnt mention me :lol: .

Yeah, I feel honored to be singled out by him.......:lol:
 
cnredd said:
You make it sound like at one time you were...:doh :2wave:

Well thats becasue I am. Mabe you forgot who got you to the position of mod.

And you still haven't addressed the fact that Clinton did more to fight OBL than Bush did before 9/11.

Thats becasue clinton didnt.
 
Kelzie said:
What? Hello! I made a blatant reference to Wag the Dog. Blatant! Girl scout? War in Iraq? Said it was crap...that international affairs don't really operate like that? Ringing any bells?

And you still haven't addressed the fact that Clinton did more to fight OBL than Bush did before 9/11.

You want me to address it? OK...Here's my OFFICIAL stance....

"He whom shall not be blamed" didn't do enough in eight years to stop OBL....

Bush43 didn't do enough in eight months to stop OBL...

If "He whom shall not be blamed" did what he should've after WTC93, there would be no 911...

If the terrorists succeeded in the total destruction of WTC93, which would have resulted in 30,000 to 70,000 deaths, like they planned, there would be no 911 for Bush...

As for saying "He whom shall not be blamed" did MORE, than allow me to say that his results were less than positive...HIS mission was a a failure on both levels...

He didn't accomplish ANYTHING by dropping tons of ordinance on training camps that were already abandoned AND he didn't stop the press from confronting him on his obstruction of justice and lying to a Federal grand jury charges...

that international affairs don't really operate like that?

Whazawhozawhaza?...You don't believe "He whom shall not be blamed" wouldn't do that because "international affairs don't really operate like that?"...

Yeah...And they don't have United Nation employees taking oil certificates in lue of giving dictators pocket cash....

Yeah...and they don't sign Non-Proliferation Treaties in 1994 only to wipe their butt with the US's Secretary of State's signature...

Yeah...and they don't let 7 digit people die in Africa...and that's not even counting disease...

For the last two+ years we've had to sit here and listen to "Bush lies!"...."Halliburton!"..."War for Oil!"..."Bush is Dumb!"...untimately followed by "Bush is an evil genius!"..."Here's a picture in 1983 with Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam!"...and all of this crap...

Of course, EVERYTHING there must be legitimate, right??????????????????????

But mention "He whom shall not be blamed", and the defenses come rushing in...

that international affairs don't really operate like that?

Pffft!...:roll:
 
It may be fair to argue that Clinton was slow to respond to the emerging Al Qaeda threat. However, he did figure it out in time to foil the millenium bomb plot, and to warn the incoming administration that Al Qaeda would be one of the most serious problems they would face. Question is, why was this warning ignored, along with so many others?
 
The Republicans did a good job of distracting the president for 8 years, all for nothing! When the next attack happens it will be interesting to see how you will still blame Clinton. It wouldn't have anything to do with being distracted by Iraq instead of getting bin laden and his henchmen. Please explain how Clinton is to blame for the current gas prices, the housing bubble, the credit bubble, our insecure borders, the division of our country, and the disappearance of the WMDs. Perhaps Monica swallowed the WMDs.
 
Bleeding Heart said:
It may be fair to argue that Clinton was slow to respond to the emerging Al Qaeda threat. However, he did figure it out in time to foil the millenium bomb plot, and to warn the incoming administration that Al Qaeda would be one of the most serious problems they would face. Question is, why was this warning ignored, along with so many others?
I'm gonna do my imitation of 26X World Champs here...

That has to be the DUMBEST post I have EVER seen in my whole frickin' life!...:2wave:

Seriously...You need to catch up on some things..."Clinton slow to respond to Al Qaeda" is like saying "Wile E. Coyote was slow in getting the roadrunner"...

I almost choked on my soda when you wrote this...However, he did figure it out in time to foil the millenium bomb plot,...

As Gunny would say, "BWAHAHAHAHAHA"...

Here's what actually happened...How you give "He whom shall not be blamed" any credit for this, I'll never know...

The Montreal resident was arrested on December 14, 1999, after customs officials in Port Angeles, Washington State -- some 100 kilometers (60 miles) northwest of Seattle -- found a trunkful of explosives and timing devices in his rented car.

http://www.lawrencekootnikoff.com/Ressam.html

A person working in Border Security notices that something's a little fishy with one vehicle, and does a little more checking out, and hits the terrorism jackpot...

But you say the President "figured it out"...wow...way to jump when they say "jump"...:roll:

The warnings were ignored for three reasons...

1) You mention to a superior that you believe that people from a certain area might be doing something bad and the first response you get is "I don't want to be accused of racial profiling...I could lose my job...Let it die!"

2) In-house blustery competition between FBI & CIA...been that way for decades...nothing changed between Presidencies...

3) "He whom shall not be blamed" like to do this little thing called "slashing budgets"...while some like to live the days of surpluses and happy little flowers, the CA & the FB(the "I"s were slashed due to budget cuts) were drowning in documentation that couldn't be analized due to a lack of actual analysts...

But you know the saying..."Those who do not learn history are doomed to cry 'Bush's fault for everything' without opening their eyes to reality"...
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
The Republicans did a good job of distracting the president for 8 years, all for nothing!
This is what I mean by "He whom shall not be blamed"....

According to this comment, I think he should have a press conference RIGHT NOW and say, "I'm sorry I didn't do more to stop terrorism...They distracted me!"...:roll:
 
cnredd said:
This is what I mean by "He whom shall not be blamed"....

According to this comment, I think he should have a press conference RIGHT NOW and say, "I'm sorry I didn't do more to stop terrorism...They distracted me!"...:roll:

Listen, Clinton was the guy in charge at the time, yes. I seriously doubt that any other leader would have started a "war on terror". When Raygun bombed Quadafi that seemed to be enough to stop him. I guess Clinton thought that precedent would work. He was wrong. Hindsight is 20/20. There was not a single republican calling for any invasions or covert operations at that time. If there was a republican calling for that he would have certainly said so and been able to prove it. All of our leadership was distracted. BJ's are interesting. BTW, Clinton has admitted to his failures in Somalia and Rwanda.
 
cnredd said:
You want me to address it? OK...Here's my OFFICIAL stance....

"He whom shall not be blamed" didn't do enough in eight years to stop OBL....

Bush43 didn't do enough in eight months to stop OBL...

If "He whom shall not be blamed" did what he should've after WTC93, there would be no 911...

If the terrorists succeeded in the total destruction of WTC93, which would have resulted in 30,000 to 70,000 deaths, like they planned, there would be no 911 for Bush...

As for saying "He whom shall not be blamed" did MORE, than allow me to say that his results were less than positive...HIS mission was a a failure on both levels...

He didn't accomplish ANYTHING by dropping tons of ordinance on training camps that were already abandoned AND he didn't stop the press from confronting him on his obstruction of justice and lying to a Federal grand jury charges...

First of all, he tried. Which is more than I can say for Bush the Second before 9/11. And we've been hunting OBL for how many decades now? And you're blaming Clinton for failure because his bombs didn't hit him? Nobody can hit him, nobody has, and he did something. Which is more than a lot of righties give him credit for.

Second. His ONLY mission in Afghanistan was to get OBL. There was no intention of covering up the whole Lewinsky idiot-fest or trying to detract attention from it. The bombings had been in the works long before the Republicans in office got that irrelevant issue to latch their teeth in.

cnredd said:
that international affairs don't really operate like that?

Whazawhozawhaza?...You don't believe "He whom shall not be blamed" wouldn't do that because "international affairs don't really operate like that?"...

Yeah...And they don't have United Nation employees taking oil certificates in lue of giving dictators pocket cash....

Yeah...and they don't sign Non-Proliferation Treaties in 1994 only to wipe their butt with the US's Secretary of State's signature...

Yeah...and they don't let 7 digit people die in Africa...and that's not even counting disease...

For the last two+ years we've had to sit here and listen to "Bush lies!"...."Halliburton!"..."War for Oil!"..."Bush is Dumb!"...untimately followed by "Bush is an evil genius!"..."Here's a picture in 1983 with Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam!"...and all of this crap...

Of course, EVERYTHING there must be legitimate, right??????????????????????

But mention "He whom shall not be blamed", and the defenses come rushing in...

that international affairs don't really operate like that?

Pffft!...:roll:

What is this whole rant about? None of this has ANYTHING to do with covering up a domestic scandal by creating an international diversion. Which is what I was talking about. Which is what I specifically said actually. Don't put words into my mouth. Everything there isn't legit, but not only is that not what I said, it is also irrelevent to the subject at hand.
 
Kelzie said:
First of all, he tried. Which is more than I can say for Bush the Second before 9/11. And we've been hunting OBL for how many decades now? And you're blaming Clinton for failure because his bombs didn't hit him? Nobody can hit him, nobody has, and he did something. Which is more than a lot of righties give him credit for.

Second. His ONLY mission in Afghanistan was to get OBL. There was no intention of covering up the whole Lewinsky idiot-fest or trying to detract attention from it. The bombings had been in the works long before the Republicans in office got that irrelevant issue to latch their teeth in.
I must respectfully say that this is hogwash & poppycock...

For "He whom shall not be blamed" to send missiles into, as some here love saying, a "sovereign nation", for blowing up two embassies but NOT do that when American soil is attacked in '93 is BS...I declare "shenanigans!"...

If he would've attacked in '93, instead of throwing out criminal charges and treating this like a trial instead of a war(which was declared on us years ago), then maybe the USS Cole, the Khobar Towers, the Double Embassy Bombings, and 911 doesn't happen...

Yes, the other Presidents could have done so, too...but here's the diff...

If Bush41 said that we are going to attack because some German disco got bombed and it might be us next, the American people would've laughed him out of Washington and gone back to watching "Cheers"...

But it DID happen...the time to strike AND get the people behind you was when WTC93 occured...What did he do?...eat some french fries and talk to lawyers...:roll:

And then he attacks 5 years later when terrorists hit 9000 miles away and he's in the midst of controversy...

Sorry Cutie...ain't buyin' it...

Kelzie said:
What is this whole rant about? None of this has ANYTHING to do with covering up a domestic scandal by creating an international diversion. Which is what I was talking about. Which is what I specifically said actually. Don't put words into my mouth. Everything there isn't legit, but not only is that not what I said, it is also irrelevent to the subject at hand.
The "whole rant" is EXACTLY written to your response about "covering up a domestic scandal by creating an international diversion"...

You sit there and say(not literally, but you get the point)...

"Nononononono....He would NEVER do something as absurd as THAT."...I believe your actual quote that I DID reply to was, "that international affairs don't really operate like that"...

Well I believe that is EXACTLY what happened...and to prove that international affairs do operate as absurdly as that, I gave you my little list...

"Nononononono...They would NEVER take oil certificates from a dictator and put cash in his pockets instead of having those certificates go for food & medicine."...Equally absurd...found to be equally truthful...

"Nononononono...North Korea would NEVER do something like sign a Treaty and then go against it and make nuclear weapons!"...Equally absurd...found to be equally truthful...

"Nononononono...The United Nations would NEVER let millions of people get slaughtered in Rwanda & Sudan and not even make a serious attempt to thwart it!"...Equally absurd...found to be equally truthful...

So don't think that "He whom shall not be blamed" would NEVER do something like bomb a country to get the press off of his back, I say, "Oh yes he would."...At the time, I didn't think too much about it...but right after 911, I realized that every President since Carter has a hand in this...But the one who had the best chances to do something about it was also the one who let the chances slip away...but for some right here in this very forum, it is "He whom shall not be blamed"...

If I were Bush, I'd be calling him up everyday and saying "Thanks for leaving me this crap...prick."
 
cnredd said:
I must respectfully say that this is hogwash & poppycock...

For "He whom shall not be blamed" to send missiles into, as some here love saying, a "sovereign nation", for blowing up two embassies but NOT do that when American soil is attacked in '93 is BS...I declare "shenanigans!"...

If he would've attacked in '93, instead of throwing out criminal charges and treating this like a trial instead of a war(which was declared on us years ago), then maybe the USS Cole, the Khobar Towers, the Double Embassy Bombings, and 911 doesn't happen...

Yes, the other Presidents could have done so, too...but here's the diff...

If Bush41 said that we are going to attack because some German disco got bombed and it might be us next, the American people would've laughed him out of Washington and gone back to watching "Cheers"...

But it DID happen...the time to strike AND get the people behind you was when WTC93 occured...What did he do?...eat some french fries and talk to lawyers...:roll:

And then he attacks 5 years later when terrorists hit 9000 miles away and he's in the midst of controversy...

Sorry Cutie...ain't buyin' it....

Refresh my memory...how many people died in the 93 WTC attack? And how many died when our embassies were bombed? You can't blame him because the terrorists did no damage in 93. You think Bush would have gotten the support to invade Afghanistan and Iraq if there were no casualties on 9/11? The answer is no.

cnredd said:
The "whole rant" is EXACTLY written to your response about "covering up a domestic scandal by creating an international diversion"...

You sit there and say(not literally, but you get the point)...

"Nononononono....He would NEVER do something as absurd as THAT."...I believe your actual quote that I DID reply to was, "that international affairs don't really operate like that"...

Well I believe that is EXACTLY what happened...and to prove that international affairs do operate as absurdly as that, I gave you my little list...

"Nononononono...They would NEVER take oil certificates from a dictator and put cash in his pockets instead of having those certificates go for food & medicine."...Equally absurd...found to be equally truthful...

"Nononononono...North Korea would NEVER do something like sign a Treaty and then go against it and make nuclear weapons!"...Equally absurd...found to be equally truthful...

"Nononononono...The United Nations would NEVER let millions of people get slaughtered in Rwanda & Sudan and not even make a serious attempt to thwart it!"...Equally absurd...found to be equally truthful...

So don't think that "He whom shall not be blamed" would NEVER do something like bomb a country to get the press off of his back, I say, "Oh yes he would."...At the time, I didn't think too much about it...but right after 911, I realized that every President since Carter has a hand in this...But the one who had the best chances to do something about it was also the one who let the chances slip away...but for some right here in this very forum, it is "He whom shall not be blamed"...

If I were Bush, I'd be calling him up everyday and saying "Thanks for leaving me this crap...prick."

What are you talking about? I'm saying A doesn't equal B. You're saying it does cause C equals D. This makes no sense. You're trying to support the argument that Clinton deliberately attacked a sovereign nation to cover up an affair (something that, by the way, people with a lot more inside knowledge than you have never proved) by comparing it to events that have absolutely no relation to it. Come on cnredd, you can do better.

And actually, none of those are absurd.
 
Kelzie said:
Refresh my memory...how many people died in the 93 WTC attack? And how many died when our embassies were bombed? You can't blame him because the terrorists did no damage in 93. You think Bush would have gotten the support to invade Afghanistan and Iraq if there were no casualties on 9/11? The answer is no.
I refresh away...I give you SOME credit due to your age, but throwing out "You can't blame him because the terrorists did no damage in 93." is a pretty big insult to the families of the six people who died and the 1000+ more that were injured...

Sorry if the people who died that you treat as numbers isn't high enough for you...:roll:

If "He whom shall not be blamed" did what he was supposed to as a leader, he would've shunned the polls and did what was right...even though he'd look bad for it...

Kinda like someone right now, eh?...

Kelzie said:
What are you talking about? I'm saying A doesn't equal B. You're saying it does cause C equals D. This makes no sense. You're trying to support the argument that Clinton deliberately attacked a sovereign nation to cover up an affair (something that, by the way, people with a lot more inside knowledge than you have never proved) by comparing it to events that have absolutely no relation to it. Come on cnredd, you can do better.

And actually, none of those are absurd.
None of those sound absurd NOW because it's hindsight...Beforehand it would sound rediculous...

What if I told you in 1993 that next year an ex-football player was going to kill his ex-wife and her friend and become the trial of the century?

What if I said that Michael Jackson...hell...ANYTHING about him is absurd...:2wave:

The ONLY way one can prove it is to have him saying it...I doubt he was dumb enough to do that...so "Yes"...what I say is nothing more than an unproven accusation...It can't be proven one way or the other so we have nothing more than a difference of beliefs...
 
cnredd said:
I refresh away...I give you SOME credit due to your age, but throwing out "You can't blame him because the terrorists did no damage in 93." is a pretty big insult to the families of the six people who died and the 1000+ more that were injured...

Sorry if the people who died that you treat as numbers isn't high enough for you...:roll:

If "He whom shall not be blamed" did what he was supposed to as a leader, he would've shunned the polls and did what was right...even though he'd look bad for it...

Kinda like someone right now, eh?...

Sorry you don't like the numbers game. That's politics. You can't invade a sovereign country cause 6 people died. It's just not an option.

cnredd said:
None of those sound absurd NOW because it's hindsight...Beforehand it would sound rediculous...

Not really...politicians and business men conspiring to make money? Oldest game in the book.

A country building weapons on the sly is not weird.

And the ignoring of human rights violations and genocides has been happening forever.

I repeat. None of them were absurd

cnredd said:
What if I told you in 1993 that next year an ex-football player was going to kill his ex-wife and her friend and become the trial of the century?

I would have been just as bored as I was during the trial. And not surprised.

cnredd said:
What if I said that Michael Jackson...hell...ANYTHING about him is absurd...:2wave:

The ONLY way one can prove it is to have him saying it...I doubt he was dumb enough to do that...so "Yes"...what I say is nothing more than an unproven accusation...It can't be proven one way or the other so we have nothing more than a difference of beliefs...

Don't pull a Billo on me. I don't have to prove it. You're the one saying it, not me.

My proof is that the plans to attack were made before the scandal. What's yours?
 
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