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A Republican Case for Climate Action

Vern

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"EACH of us took turns over the past 43 years running the Environmental Protection Agency. We served Republican presidents, but we have a message that transcends political affiliation: the United States must move now on substantive steps to curb climate change, at home and internationally. "

(attention cons, read this next part very slowly. read it as many times as necessary)

There is no longer any credible scientific debate about the basic facts: our world continues to warm, with the last decade the hottest in modern records, and the deep ocean warming faster than the earth’s atmosphere. Sea level is rising. Arctic Sea ice is melting years faster than projected.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/02/opinion/a-republican-case-for-climate-action.html?_r=0
 

LowDown

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"EACH of us took turns over the past 43 years running the Environmental Protection Agency. We served Republican presidents, but we have a message that transcends political affiliation: the United States must move now on substantive steps to curb climate change, at home and internationally. "

(attention cons, read this next part very slowly. read it as many times as necessary)

There is no longer any credible scientific debate about the basic facts: our world continues to warm, with the last decade the hottest in modern records, and the deep ocean warming faster than the earth’s atmosphere. Sea level is rising. Arctic Sea ice is melting years faster than projected.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/02/opinion/a-republican-case-for-climate-action.html?_r=0
No, there is considerable doubt that 1) Predictions of future climate are correct and 2) Anything that can be done by man that is financially or politically fesible will have any effect on the climate.

All action along that line will be a boondoggle and a waste of resources.

The average global temperature stopped rising 17 years ago and the rise still hasn't resumed. Whether the warming trend eventually continues at some point (your guess is as good as anyone's on that) isn't as important as the fact that the climate models people are relying on to make predictions about future climate completely failed to predict this pause in warming.

By the way, the remark about the deep oceans warming is probably not correct.
 
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azgreg

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I'm still not convinced that a warmer planet isn't a happy planet.
 

davidtaylorjr

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"EACH of us took turns over the past 43 years running the Environmental Protection Agency. We served Republican presidents, but we have a message that transcends political affiliation: the United States must move now on substantive steps to curb climate change, at home and internationally. "

(attention cons, read this next part very slowly. read it as many times as necessary)

There is no longer any credible scientific debate about the basic facts: our world continues to warm, with the last decade the hottest in modern records, and the deep ocean warming faster than the earth’s atmosphere. Sea level is rising. Arctic Sea ice is melting years faster than projected.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/02/opinion/a-republican-case-for-climate-action.html?_r=0
The climate goes in cycles, period. There is no man-made global warming, it's nothing but environmental crazy tree-huggers who want to have their say.
 

Vern

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and the silly cons respond on cue. Its amazing how they cling to the lies of anybody who tells them what they want to believe. amazing. er Lowdown I don't know how you can say the "average global temperature stopped rising 17 ago" when the last decade was the warmest decade on record.
 

FederalRepublic

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and the silly cons respond on cue. Its amazing how they cling to the lies of anybody who tells them what they want to believe. amazing. er Lowdown I don't know how you can say the "average global temperature stopped rising 17 ago" when the last decade was the warmest decade on record.
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Does this help?
 

azgreg

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and the silly cons respond on cue. Its amazing how they cling to the lies of anybody who tells them what they want to believe. amazing. er Lowdown I don't know how you can say the "average global temperature stopped rising 17 ago" when the last decade was the warmest decade on record.
Here's the data from NOAA that shows just that.



Is it still the hottest it's been in recorded history (180 years)? Sure it has, but it hasn't gotten significantly hotter.

Will it get hotter after this stall? Maybe, maybe not.
 

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Scientifically, its totally clear that CO2 emissions from fossil fuel burning are causing warming of the planet and climate change.

Politically, its not so clear. And the knuckle draggers have about fifty weak arguments to throw at it, such as "its not been warming for x years (x being the number of years since the hottest year in 1998, which has been close to equaled twice since then), and how 'models are always wrong'.

But virtually all of the major scientific bodies agree CAGW is real and will be an issue. The Republican Party cant even pass routine bills in Congress, much less agree to deal with a major issue like climate change, so we will have to wait until they get slammed in elections like they inevitably will be before change is seen in the US.
 

AlabamaPaul

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Scientifically, its totally clear that CO2 emissions from fossil fuel burning are causing warming of the planet and climate change.

Politically, its not so clear. And the knuckle draggers have about fifty weak arguments to throw at it, such as "its not been warming for x years (x being the number of years since the hottest year in 1998, which has been close to equaled twice since then), and how 'models are always wrong'.

But virtually all of the major scientific bodies agree CAGW is real and will be an issue. The Republican Party cant even pass routine bills in Congress, much less agree to deal with a major issue like climate change, so we will have to wait until they get slammed in elections like they inevitably will be before change is seen in the US.
May I ask a simple question? Is there not an equal chance that summers would be cooler due to the insulating effects of these gasses?
 

Unitedwestand13

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May I ask a simple question? Is there not an equal chance that summers would be cooler due to the insulating effects of these gasses?
if you want to see a example of the greenhouse effect, look at the surface of Venus, and the temperatures that it regularly receives.
 

Threegoofs

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May I ask a simple question? Is there not an equal chance that summers would be cooler due to the insulating effects of these gasses?
Nope.

It's not insulating, its more like 'heat trapping'.

The same way that sleeping under a blanket in the summer isn't cooler.

But summers could be cooler in some places be ause of local climate effects.
 

FederalRepublic

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if you want to see a example of the greenhouse effect, look at the surface of Venus, and the temperatures that it regularly receives.
The mass of Venus's atmosphere is 100 times greater than earth's and is 96.5% CO2. How does that correlate to the 0.035% CO2 in our atmosphere? Why bother trying to compare the two?
 

AlabamaPaul

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Nope.

It's not insulating, its more like 'heat trapping'.

The same way that sleeping under a blanket in the summer isn't cooler.

But summers could be cooler in some places be ause of local climate effects.
So your view is that heat is trapped, but how was the heat generated in the first place? As I see it, these gasses would lead to cooler summers (think about a cloudy day) and warmer winters...
 

Unitedwestand13

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The mass of Venus's atmosphere is 100 times greater than earth's and is 96.5% CO2. How does that correlate to the 0.035% CO2 in our atmosphere? Why bother trying to compare the two?
i was not making a comparison, i don't think i was making one, i was just pointing out the effects of the greenhouse effect on the planet venus.
 

Threegoofs

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So your view is that heat is trapped, but how was the heat generated in the first place? As I see it, these gasses would lead to cooler summers (think about a cloudy day) and warmer winters...
It's not really my view. It's the science.

The heat that is trapped is solar heat.
 

AlabamaPaul

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It's not really my view. It's the science.

The heat that is trapped is solar heat.
But would the same logic also not lead to cooler summers, as the solar effect would be hindered?
 

Slyfox696

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The average global temperature stopped rising 17 years ago and the rise still hasn't resumed.
It never ceases to amaze me how those who are against global warming never seem to understand how ridiculous it is to use a non-round number like 16 or 17 when discussing something like this. All it does is make it pretty clear you're not interested in looking at the larger picture and instead are simply focusing on one particular point.

I don't care what you believe, but use a different argument. The "17 years" argument is not credible, especially in a discussion concerning the length of time which is being discussed.

Oh, and the fact it's essentially false hurts the credibility as well.
 

code1211

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"EACH of us took turns over the past 43 years running the Environmental Protection Agency. We served Republican presidents, but we have a message that transcends political affiliation: the United States must move now on substantive steps to curb climate change, at home and internationally. "

(attention cons, read this next part very slowly. read it as many times as necessary)

There is no longer any credible scientific debate about the basic facts: our world continues to warm, with the last decade the hottest in modern records, and the deep ocean warming faster than the earth’s atmosphere. Sea level is rising. Arctic Sea ice is melting years faster than projected.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/02/opinion/a-republican-case-for-climate-action.html?_r=0


Such a firm belief and not a fact to stand it on.

Where does the data for deep ocean warming come from? There is no reliable or consistent method of data collection from this depth in the ocean. The Argo Array let you down and did not support the hysteria for the ocean warming to the 3000 meter depth.

The world has cooled according to every data collection agency on the planet over the last decade.

Of the last ten years, 2013 has more ice than five and less ice than five. It has more ice than the most recent five. Sounds like the cooling is being represented by the ice extent in the Arctic.
 

code1211

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and the silly cons respond on cue. Its amazing how they cling to the lies of anybody who tells them what they want to believe. amazing. er Lowdown I don't know how you can say the "average global temperature stopped rising 17 ago" when the last decade was the warmest decade on record.


Keep clinging to your superstition and ignore anything that resembles data or information. You will remain an uninformed Liberal.

The most dedicated kind.
 

Threegoofs

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Such a firm belief and not a fact to stand it on.

Where does the data for deep ocean warming come from? There is no reliable or consistent method of data collection from this depth in the ocean. The Argo Array let you down and did not support the hysteria for the ocean warming to the 3000 meter depth.

The world has cooled according to every data collection agency on the planet over the last decade.

Of the last ten years, 2013 has more ice than five and less ice than five. It has more ice than the most recent five. Sounds like the cooling is being represented by the ice extent in the Arctic.
Yet scientists disagree with you.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change

Ill stick with the NAS, rather than you and Sean Hannity, thank you.
 

code1211

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Here's the data from NOAA that shows just that.



Is it still the hottest it's been in recorded history (180 years)? Sure it has, but it hasn't gotten significantly hotter.

Will it get hotter after this stall? Maybe, maybe not.


When presented with facts, the AGW Diehards start to get real angry.

Prepare for the tantrums.
 

code1211

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Scientifically, its totally clear that CO2 emissions from fossil fuel burning are causing warming of the planet and climate change.

Politically, its not so clear. And the knuckle draggers have about fifty weak arguments to throw at it, such as "its not been warming for x years (x being the number of years since the hottest year in 1998, which has been close to equaled twice since then), and how 'models are always wrong'.

But virtually all of the major scientific bodies agree CAGW is real and will be an issue. The Republican Party cant even pass routine bills in Congress, much less agree to deal with a major issue like climate change, so we will have to wait until they get slammed in elections like they inevitably will be before change is seen in the US.



Another completely empty post devoid of any kind of information or data.

Are you going for a thousand straight?
 

code1211

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May I ask a simple question? Is there not an equal chance that summers would be cooler due to the insulating effects of these gasses?



Actually, there might be some truth in that, but not in the way you mean.

One of the feedbacks counted on by the IPCC to create the dire warming that they predict is the increase in Water Vapor as a feed back from the warming caused by the increase in CO2.

There are two basic problems with this as evidenced by the FACT that the warming they have predicted has not occurred:

1. The Water vapor increase would produce more clouds and those clouds would reduce warming in two ways: At high altitude, the solar radiation would be reflected back to space. At lower altitudes, the shadows cast on the ground would reduce the Albedo heating and that would also produce a lack of warming. Of course rain is a cooling agent when it evaporates after having fallen or when it evaporates at any altitude.
2. The Green House properties of the incremental increases in CO2 decrease logarithmically. At the current concentrations, it will require a tripling of the CO2 to about 1200 ppm in the air before another degree of heating occurs due to CO2 Green house heating.


4. Carbon dioxide is already absorbing almost all it can « JoNova
 
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