A realistic appraisal of President Obama

[Somerville]

Because so many on the right are guilty of it, they naturally assume the left is the same but it really is more of a rightie trait - bilateral thinking. Here in one paragraph from Crooks & Liars, a 'known' hard left blog, is a nice refutation of the concept - "All you lefties, Marxists, progressives, etc ... think the same!"

However, at this point, I despair the state of debate in this country...and watch me break out the equivalencies...on BOTH SIDES. We know that the Republicans "blacktrack" anything and everything Obama promotes, even if the idea originated from them. But the left seem equally unable to have a discussion of any kind of intellectual honesty about Obama either. They either insist that he is some Jedi eleventy dimensional chess player or that he's the worst murderous totalitarian Hitler-wannabe that even came out of the Chicago political machine. Please, people. He is neither. He is a politician, for good and ill. He is neither a liberal savior nor is he some corrupted corporatist war-loving evil-doer. He both deserves our praise for doing things well (and there is no need to exclaim it as some higher cognitive jiu-jitsu we mere mortals couldn't have anticpated) and our pressure and censure when he makes mistakes (without the "ZOMG, impeach him!" screams, thankyouverymuch). Let's stop the cartoonish perceptions and expectations. This isn't a comic book. There are real problems we need to address, and a little intellectual honesty would be appreciated.

 

[sawdust]

Please list the accomplishments of this president. Exactly what has he done well?

Is it his brilliant response to Benghazi?
Is it the crap sandwich called Obamacare that nobody wants?
Would it be the bail out of GM so that they can build plants in China.
Is it the fiscal management of our government which is only afloat because of quantitive easing?
Is it the creation of a business environment which encourages private sector job creation?
Is it the brilliant foreign relations maneuvers that gave Russia primary influence in the Middle East?
Would it be the increased electronic surveillance of American citizens?
How about his investment in green companies that go out of business costing tax payers billions?
He did a good job stopping the Keystone pipeline which will help our energy independence.
How about those electric cars that run on coal? We have quite an investment in them, at least until the coal industry is put out of business and electricity becomes more expensive for everyone.

He's accomplished quite a lot. Three more years and the destruction will be complete.

 

[tererun]

Hmmmm, ok.

We have gained many jobs over his term, but they are lower paying jobs and the reality that business and people need to recognize that it's low end manual labor are responsible for allowing them to make their masssive profits and share the wealth with the people who do the work necessary to them, which would also promote the economic recovery by allowing millions to have more purchasing power and increase commerce. It is a positive, but not the great recovery people wanted.

He did promote some minimal health care reform, but ******d out and missed the fundamental problem with the system which is for profit health care where everyone else gets their share before the insurance company customers paying the bills. Little steps were made, but the problem remains.

We ended the war in Iraq, still are in afganistan, avoided a full war in libya, and now he has failed to get us into a war with syria. Our troops are still out there, and gitmo is still open so he is pretty much a complete failure all around in his getting us out of and keeping us out of idiotic wars pledge. ince we now still occupy many places, and are still involved in protecting other countries who don't want us there. He failed on that promise, but we have not gotten worse.

He has promoted and used the patriot act and espionage act to reduce our rights, and to spy on the american people. So where the other issues were small positives or net neutral he pretty much screwed us there. Still, he did have help from bipartisan congressional support and the previous administration. This is a huge bad change overall.

I cannot really blame him for the growing partisan hissy fits. That one is pretty much square in republican laps, and he has made repeated attempts to reach across the aisle in compromise which the other side has completely ignored, so even though he failed, he did try.

I cannot blame him for helping out the gays as he mostly sat on the sidelines waiting for the tide to turn and then tried to take credit for something he was too cowardly to support in his first election. OTOH he did not stand in the way of their rights either.

Still given what he was given at the beginning of his terms he has made some things better, even if it is small. We certainly cannot say the same for the previous 8 years which were an overall net loss for america. We have some problems to fix now with free speech, illegal spying on american people, and press intimidation which are big, but they are not entirely his fault as those powers were given to him and any opposition to them has been ignored for other crazy BS scandals with no merrit. So not terrible, and I really was not expecting the first black president to do any other miracles.

but be prepared to see the claims that obama has destroyed america, broke the world, and put roaches in the white house with his uber godly powerrs.

 

[bubbabgone]

To get a handle on where posters are on the Obama-appraisal-analysis-scale, 1 to 10 where 1 is failure and 10 is success, how would you put the Syria episode?

 

[bubbabgone]

Bugged: Obama's Roach Problem - NationalJournal.com

"REPORT: White House Full of Vermin... "

Gotta love Drudge headlines.

 

[Somerville]

Please list the accomplishments of this president. Exactly what has he done well?

Is it his brilliant response to Benghazi?
Is it the crap sandwich called Obamacare that nobody wants?
Would it be the bail out of GM so that they can build plants in China.
Is it the fiscal management of our government which is only afloat because of quantitive easing?
Is it the creation of a business environment which encourages private sector job creation?
Is it the brilliant foreign relations maneuvers that gave Russia primary influence in the Middle East?
Would it be the increased electronic surveillance of American citizens?
How about his investment in green companies that go out of business costing tax payers billions?
He did a good job stopping the Keystone pipeline which will help our energy independence.
How about those electric cars that run on coal? We have quite an investment in them, at least until the coal industry is put out of business and electricity becomes more expensive for everyone.

He's accomplished quite a lot. Three more years and the destruction will be complete.

One thing is for sure. There are folks who believe all the crap that is poured forth from the right wing media on a near hourly basis.

1: We don't know enough about the Benghazi situation. Compare the Obama administration response to that of Bush and bin Laden's location. What I read tells me the Obama people are working in a clandestine way to get at the perpetrators of the Benghazi attacks

2: Obamacare has been the victim of a very carefully planned campaign of destruction with the majority of Americans knowing little about it. As states publish the rates, more and more are coming to see the benefits. Republican politicians continue to do everything they can to obstruct its implementation. Reports say ACA saves consumers billions

3: General Motors building plants in China while sales continue to increase in North America - now how is that a bad thing?

GM’s sales last month were the highest of 2013 and the best since September 2008, <snip> Since then, the 2011 Chevrolet Volt and the 2013 Cadillac ATS won the North American Car of the Year award, the 2014 Chevrolet Impala was named the top sedan in the country by a leading consumer publication, GM topped the 2013 J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study and the company has returned to competitive levels of leasing. GM and its dealers have also embarked on a multibillion-dollar program to renovate sales and service facilities in all 50 states.

4: So the slowest increase in federal spending in more than 50 years just isn't enough. Decreasing numbers of government employees isn't enough

5: Russia is not the "primary influence in the Middle East". Believing such nonsense simply shows you don't read much

6: One item, both left and right agree on

7: 'Green' energy investments have cost taxpayers billions of dollars according to those who believe only fossil fuels are worthwhile. Then there is reality: Clean energy has highest return rate of any federal program | Grist

8: Keystone XL pipeline will do little or nothing toward improving America's energy independence. It is a Canadian company trying to get their products to seaports where said products can be exported. The company had to push for a pipeline across the middle of the US because British Columbia wouldn't allow such a polluting disaster to cross the province.

9: Technically electric cars don't "run on coal", they are charged up by electricity flowing thru the national grid, electricity that may or may not be generated by coal.

and a charge of my own against Libertarians of the Right - way too many of you are racists.

Libertarian populism: Unpopular and impolitic | The Economist
right-wing populism in America has always amounted to white identity politics, which is why the only notable libertarian-leaning politicians to generate real excitement among conservative voters have risen to prominence through alliances with racist and nativist movements.

 

[tererun]

To get a handle on where posters are on the Obama-appraisal-analysis-scale, 1 to 10 where 1 is failure and 10 is success, how would you put the Syria episode?

That depends on what you think we should do. If you think we should go to war then Obama's failure is a failure, and if you think we shouldn't his failure is a net success though unintended. Sometimes by failing a person ends up doing the right thing. I guess that would be somewhere around a 5.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Hmmmm, ok.

We have gained many jobs over his term, but they are lower paying jobs and the reality that business and people need to recognize that it's low end manual labor are responsible for allowing them to make their masssive profits and share the wealth with the people who do the work necessary to them, which would also promote the economic recovery by allowing millions to have more purchasing power and increase commerce. It is a positive, but not the great recovery people wanted.

He did promote some minimal health care reform, but ******d out and missed the fundamental problem with the system which is for profit health care where everyone else gets their share before the insurance company customers paying the bills. Little steps were made, but the problem remains.

We ended the war in Iraq, still are in afganistan, avoided a full war in libya, and now he has failed to get us into a war with syria. Our troops are still out there, and gitmo is still open so he is pretty much a complete failure all around in his getting us out of and keeping us out of idiotic wars pledge. ince we now still occupy many places, and are still involved in protecting other countries who don't want us there. He failed on that promise, but we have not gotten worse.

He has promoted and used the patriot act and espionage act to reduce our rights, and to spy on the american people. So where the other issues were small positives or net neutral he pretty much screwed us there. Still, he did have help from bipartisan congressional support and the previous administration. This is a huge bad change overall.

I cannot really blame him for the growing partisan hissy fits. That one is pretty much square in republican laps, and he has made repeated attempts to reach across the aisle in compromise which the other side has completely ignored, so even though he failed, he did try.

I cannot blame him for helping out the gays as he mostly sat on the sidelines waiting for the tide to turn and then tried to take credit for something he was too cowardly to support in his first election. OTOH he did not stand in the way of their rights either.

Still given what he was given at the beginning of his terms he has made some things better, even if it is small. We certainly cannot say the same for the previous 8 years which were an overall net loss for america. We have some problems to fix now with free speech, illegal spying on american people, and press intimidation which are big, but they are not entirely his fault as those powers were given to him and any opposition to them has been ignored for other crazy BS scandals with no merrit. So not terrible, and I really was not expecting the first black president to do any other miracles.

but be prepared to see the claims that obama has destroyed america, broke the world, and put roaches in the white house with his uber godly powerrs.

The fact that you place the bolded in the past tense says it all. Leadership is about changing priorities, not simply adding more stuff to the already too big federal gov't. One key point was the constant Obama insistance that the "Bush" federal income tax rates were the "root cause" of many economic evils, yet Obama kept all of them for his entire first term and then slightly raised taxes for the weathiest 1.4% of taxpayers while again keeping 98.6% of the evil "Bush" tax rates.

It is precisely this moronic piddling and tyring to make meaningless minor adjustments appear to be major policy changes that makes Obama, as a "leader", look like a fool. After running his endless teleprompter tirade against the "Bush" tax rates he gets a minor change and then drops the issue. Obama now acts like taxation policy has been fixed because he got that minor crumb tossed his way.

Can you name one thing that Obama has voluntarily removed from the federal gov't's budget?

Read this nonsense that passes for Obama's "vision":

When combined with the deficit reduction already achieved, this will allow us to exceed the goal of $4 trillion in deficit reduction,...

Yep. Obama is done with spending cuts, let's roll and "invest" more.

The President's Budget for Fiscal Year 2014 | The White House

Another rediculous Obama claim is that his cuts somehow get multiplied by 10 because he "projects" savings will occur for 9 more years for each thing removed/reduced/consolidated. Of course that is pure nonsense. If a program that Obama added in 2012 is cut in 2014, that saves nothing in 2015-2023 unless you use "Obama math" which assumes that all federal programs 1) last forever and 2) will cost more each year due to inflation/population growth.

 

[tererun]

The fact that you place the bolded in the past tense says it all. Leadership is about changing priorities, not simply adding more stuff to the already too big federal gov't. One key point was the constant Obama insistance that the "Bush" federal income tax rates were the "root cause" of many economic evils, yet Obama kept all of them for his entire first term and then slightly raised taxes for the weathiest 1.4% of taxpayers while again keeping 98.6% of the evil "Bush" tax rates.

It is precisely this moronic piddling and tyring to make meaningless minor adjustments appear to be major policy changes that makes Obama, as a "leader", look like a fool. After running his endless teleprompter tirade against the "Bush" tax rates he gets a minor change and then drops the issue. Obama now acts like taxation policy has been fixed because he got that minor crumb tossed his way.

Can you name one thing that Obama has voluntarily removed from the federal gov't's budget?

Read this nonsense that passes for Obama's "vision":



Yep. Obama is done with spending cuts, let's roll and "invest" more.

The*President's*Budget for*Fiscal Year 2014 | The White House

Another rediculous Obama claim is that his cuts somehow get multiplied by 10 because he "projects" savings will occur for 9 more years for each thing removed/reduced/consolidated. Of course that is pure nonsense. If a program that Obama added in 2012 is cut in 2014, that saves nothing in 2015-2023 unless you use "Obama math" which assumes that all federal programs 1) last forever and 2) will cost more each year due to inflation/population growth.

He asked for realism, and it is realistic to say he is incapable of forcing people with an irerational hatred of anything mentioned by him and his family to come to the table and talk like reasonable people. The republicans are bitching about drinking water because his wife suggested it. There are only a few leaders I know who could deal with that, and normally it would include the killing of the opponents. But feel free to whine and pretend republicans have been anything but spoiled children over the past 5 years. The reality is that like most hissy fits no one is buying it but the children screaming incoherently about their fantasy world.

 

[Fisher]

When the apologists have resorted to "neither side is being fair but one side is worse than the other" your guy is swirling in the historic crapper.

 

[Somerville]

When the apologists have resorted to "neither side is being fair but one side is worse than the other" your guy is swirling in the historic crapper.

Only for those who can't stop spinning

 

[sawdust]

One thing is for sure. There are folks who believe all the crap that is poured forth from the right wing media on a near hourly basis.

1: We don't know enough about the Benghazi situation. Compare the Obama administration response to that of Bush and bin Laden's location. What I read tells me the Obama people are working in a clandestine way to get at the perpetrators of the Benghazi attacks

2: Obamacare has been the victim of a very carefully planned campaign of destruction with the majority of Americans knowing little about it. As states publish the rates, more and more are coming to see the benefits. Republican politicians continue to do everything they can to obstruct its implementation. Reports say ACA saves consumers billions

3: General Motors building plants in China while sales continue to increase in North America - now how is that a bad thing?
4: So the slowest increase in federal spending in more than 50 years just isn't enough. Decreasing numbers of government employees isn't enough

5: Russia is not the "primary influence in the Middle East". Believing such nonsense simply shows you don't read much

6: One item, both left and right agree on

7: 'Green' energy investments have cost taxpayers billions of dollars according to those who believe only fossil fuels are worthwhile. Then there is reality: Clean energy has highest return rate of any federal program | Grist

8: Keystone XL pipeline will do little or nothing toward improving America's energy independence. It is a Canadian company trying to get their products to seaports where said products can be exported. The company had to push for a pipeline across the middle of the US because British Columbia wouldn't allow such a polluting disaster to cross the province.

9: Technically electric cars don't "run on coal", they are charged up by electricity flowing thru the national grid, electricity that may or may not be generated by coal.

and a charge of my own against Libertarians of the Right - way too many of you are racists.

1. This is what we know about Benghazi. The government has stonewalled the investigation. Sec. Clinton told a congressional committee that it didn't matter how the attack started. The government claimed that it was a reaction to a movie. It later claimed that AlQaeda was involved. Obama said he would punish who ever did the attack. Libya won't cooperate and it's likely that the responsible parties will not be punished for killing our Ambassador and the brave men who tried to protect him.

2. Obamacare is overly complex. Nearly everyone who is subjected to it dislikes it and Congress has lobbied Obama to grand them a subsidy to pay for their increased personal Obamacare expense. It's crap.

3. GM is creating jobs in China on the American tax payers dime. Do you think that's wise? According to Dan Akerson, CEO of GM they build seven of ten cars offshore.

4. The slowest recovery from any recession in American history isn't enough. The business community isn't confident on Obama and Obamacare is creating a disincentive for many small businesses to expand. We would do better with a president who favored capitalism over crony capitalism.

5. Personal insult aside, Putin has influence over Syria and Iran. Iraq has become a puppet of Iran. The Egyptians hate us because of our tacit support of the Muslim brotherhood. That leaves us Saudi Arabia as the loan government who gives us political support but popularly is a primary breeding ground for most of the notable terrorists in the world. Libya stopped cooperating with us. Leading from behind is not leadership.

6. I'm glad we agree on something.

7. Green investment in research an intelligent use of capital. Green investments in companies who bring products to market before they are ready or with bad business plans wind up like Solyndra and Tusker. Bankrupt and a waste of money. The latter is the Obama model because he believes he can force the market to support what is economically unsustainable.

8. The Keystone pipeline will transport oil bearing substances to refineries in Texas and Louisiana for processing. From there the oil enters the open market. I'm sure some will go around the world. If you are concerned about the environment, think about all the diesel being burned transporting it by truck, which is the alternative for at least part of the trip. If Obama doesn't approve it, the next president will if he doesn't have his head up his ass.

9. Glad you got the point.

With respect to your racist comment, you don't know me so speaking for myself, go screw yourself.

 

[sangha]

Dont agree with everything listed in this piece, but here's a list of 50 accomplishments for those who want to discuss the facts

Obama’s Top 50 Accomplishments by Paul Glastris, Ryan Cooper, and Siyu Hu | The Washington Monthly

 

[Cyrylek]

I would say, one really remarkable thing about Obama is how utterly unremarkable he is, outside of his (glitchy of late) oratory skills.

Neither the monstrosity of Obamacare nor the deep mishandling of economic and fiscal issues during the recovery can be attributed to the man's way of thinking or character: any imaginable Democratic president - Hillary, Biden, or whoever - would do about the same things, with about the same results or lack thereof.

And any plausible Republican in their place one would have done something rather similar, just under different rhetorical smokescreen.

Actually reforming the health care system (cutting out the parasitic intermediaries and enabling the patient/consumer), or addressing the proliferating structural flaws in our economy (as opposed to doping it with "stimuli" on borrowed time and money) would take extraordinary leadership plus a solid consensus at least within one party.

There's nothing extraordinary about Obama, and the only consensus within his party is the reactionary inability to think outside of the dogmas that had been fully formed by the 1970 - and had lost any connection with reality by the turn of the century.

As an accidental junior Senator, a Pritzkers' protégé without a power base of his own, Obama would be in a very weak position as a challenger to this mental and organizational status quo anyway, even if he was capable of such challenge.

I'm not saying that everything he did is wrong or irrelevant. His record on "social issues" is tolerable - even though he never acted as a leader, he "evolved". But again, "the positive" here is the same old positive of the old "progressive" Democratic agenda, moving by inertia.

Likewise, on the foreign policy, I wouldn't be so hard on Obama personally. He did not show any unusual and unexpected diplomatic or strategic abilities, but his position is unenviable to begin with: As a puppet of the old, outdated American leftist consensus, he cannot either move the USA away from the role of the world police or do anything decisive in that role.

Appointing a feckless aging party mandarin as Secretary of State was a really bad choice, but what else could Obama do? It was Kerry's turn. Just as it was his turn to run for President, in 2004. With similar results.

 

[polgara]

Bugged: Obama's Roach Problem - NationalJournal.com

"REPORT: White House Full of Vermin... "

Gotta love Drudge headlines.

Good morning, Bubba. :2wave:

My children live in the Houston, Texas area, which has a problem with roaches. They all live in upscale neighborhoods, but they say It is an ongoing battle to keep them out of the house. The damn things fly, so if someone leaves the screen door open, they will inevitably find one on the wall.

 

[JC Callender]

Heat, humidity, flying roaches....Houston sounds like a lovely place to live! :mrgreen:

Btw, Happy Birthday my friend! :2party:

Good morning, Bubba. :2wave:

My children live in the Houston, Texas area, which has a problem with roaches. They all live in upscale neighborhoods, but they say It is an ongoing battle to keep them out of the house. The damn things fly, so if someone leaves the screen door open, they will inevitably find one on the wall.

 

[washunut]

Dont agree with everything listed in this piece, but here's a list of 50 accomplishments for those who want to discuss the facts

Obama’s Top 50 Accomplishments by Paul Glastris, Ryan Cooper, and Siyu Hu | The Washington Monthly

OK the list is long so lets just talk about #1 and #5 to start.

- Having a system where everyone would have gone onto a Medicare like system would have accomplished this. ACA does not.

- On #5 we have MORE troops rather than less in Afghanistan since Obama is in office. This is when Obama totally lost me. When he cared more about checking a box on his campaign promises than the kids he sends overseas to get killed. Both parties sicken me when they talk about their devotion to the troops but could care less about their welfare.

 

[CRUE CAB]

He is a one issue at a time president.
In a time when he should have had people looking for the Benghazi murderers he was focused on Newtown.
Obamacare took up most of his time in his first 4 years, even though it was not wanted nor needed. Refusing to focus on jobs.

 

[bubbabgone]

That depends on what you think we should do. If you think we should go to war then Obama's failure is a failure, and if you think we shouldn't his failure is a net success though unintended. Sometimes by failing a person ends up doing the right thing. I guess that would be somewhere around a 5.

Forgive me, but that analysis is skin deep.

Even if a person was against an action against Syria, what appears to have been agreed upon couldn't reasonably be considered a net success unless the person's sole concern was not attacking Syria.
IOW ... you could be relieved there may not be an attack against Syria while being seriously concerned about the strengthening of Russia, the lingering of Assad, the weakening of the USA, the commitment not to pursue action through the UN, the nut-kick to the rebels, the strengthening of Islamists, and the gift of delay given to Assad & Russia.

That doesn't seem like a legitimate 50-50 proposition.

 

[bubbabgone]

Good morning, Bubba. :2wave:

My children live in the Houston, Texas area, which has a problem with roaches. They all live in upscale neighborhoods, but they say It is an ongoing battle to keep them out of the house. The damn things fly, so if someone leaves the screen door open, they will inevitably find one on the wall.

I believe it.

Today's your Birthday Pol?
Why wasn't I informed of this?

Hap-py Hap-py Birthday Baa-aa-beeeee.

 

[bubbabgone]

I would say, one really remarkable thing about Obama is how utterly unremarkable he is, outside of his (glitchy of late) oratory skills.

Neither the monstrosity of Obamacare nor the deep mishandling of economic and fiscal issues during the recovery can be attributed to the man's way of thinking or character: any imaginable Democratic president - Hillary, Biden, or whoever - would do about the same things, with about the same results or lack thereof.

And any plausible Republican in their place one would have done something rather similar, just under different rhetorical smokescreen.

Actually reforming the health care system (cutting out the parasitic intermediaries and enabling the patient/consumer), or addressing the proliferating structural flaws in our economy (as opposed to doping it with "stimuli" on borrowed time and money) would take extraordinary leadership plus a solid consensus at least within one party.

There's nothing extraordinary about Obama, and the only consensus within his party is the reactionary inability to think outside of the dogmas that had been fully formed by the 1970 - and had lost any connection with reality by the turn of the century.

As an accidental junior Senator, a Pritzkers' protégé without a power base of his own, Obama would be in a very weak position as a challenger to this mental and organizational status quo anyway, even if he was capable of such challenge.

I'm not saying that everything he did is wrong or irrelevant. His record on "social issues" is tolerable - even though he never acted as a leader, he "evolved". But again, "the positive" here is the same old positive of the old "progressive" Democratic agenda, moving by inertia.

Likewise, on the foreign policy, I wouldn't be so hard on Obama personally. He did not show any unusual and unexpected diplomatic or strategic abilities, but his position is unenviable to begin with: As a puppet of the old, outdated American leftist consensus, he cannot either move the USA away from the role of the world police or do anything decisive in that role.

Appointing a feckless aging party mandarin as Secretary of State was a really bad choice, but what else could Obama do? It was Kerry's turn. Just as it was his turn to run for President, in 2004. With similar results.

Lotta truth there, bud.

 

[bubbabgone]

OK the list is long so lets just talk about #1 and #5 to start.

- Having a system where everyone would have gone onto a Medicare like system would have accomplished this. ACA does not.

- On #5 we have MORE troops rather than less in Afghanistan since Obama is in office. This is when Obama totally lost me. When he cared more about checking a box on his campaign promises than the kids he sends overseas to get killed. Both parties sicken me when they talk about their devotion to the troops but could care less about their welfare.

To be fair, it was written over a year ago, but #41 about the absence of scandal was a laugh riot and pretty much told the reader where the authors were coming from.
And #2 about the glories of the Stimulus was really special.

 

[sangha]

OK the list is long so lets just talk about #1 and #5 to start.

- Having a system where everyone would have gone onto a Medicare like system would have accomplished this. ACA does not.

- On #5 we have MORE troops rather than less in Afghanistan since Obama is in office. This is when Obama totally lost me. When he cared more about checking a box on his campaign promises than the kids he sends overseas to get killed. Both parties sicken me when they talk about their devotion to the troops but could care less about their welfare.

#1 - The fact that there are better options does not mean that his passage of PPACA was not an accomplishment

#5 - The fact is that he is now withdrawing troops from Afghanistan, which is an accomplishment. However, I agree that his "surge" in Aghanistan was undesirable IMO

 

[Harshaw]

Because so many on the right are guilty of it, they naturally assume the left is the same but it really is more of a rightie trait - bilateral thinking.

:roll: And your data to support this little gem would be . . . ?

 

[tererun]

Forgive me, but that analysis is skin deep.

Even if a person was against an action against Syria, what appears to have been agreed upon couldn't reasonably be considered a net success unless the person's sole concern was not attacking Syria.
IOW ... you could be relieved there may not be an attack against Syria while being seriously concerned about the strengthening of Russia, the lingering of Assad, the weakening of the USA, the commitment not to pursue action through the UN, the nut-kick to the rebels, the strengthening of Islamists, and the gift of delay given to Assad & Russia.

you see, that is the pro-war POV. All those issues are about attacking Syria. You put a fearmongering spin on it like russia is going to win some competition, but the reality is for many people syria just is not a terribly big concern. yes, obama's fail is a success in that matter considering it has lead to the removal of some WMDs in the world, while not getting into a military fight with them. You want to launch some missiles at them to give the finger to russia and the UN, so it is a failure to you. Whatever specific reasons you put onto the table it still is about the simplistic reality of either we are launching some military force at syria or we are not.

That doesn't seem like a legitimate 50-50 proposition.

No it is pretty much neutral. Some chemical weapons will be removed which deas lead to lesser numbers of them available. Puting gets to look like the wise diplomat for a brief moment, but russia is still a religious tyranny. The fighting in the middle east goes on, as it does even after the US intervenes. Obama looks like a warmongering leader who cannot get support, but the desire most people have to tone down the conflict through really simple means was accomplished through his failure. It is pretty damned neutral, unless you wanted war. But looking at the original topic the reality is the whole situation did something small, was a tiny positive, and generally leaves the problem in place but a little less bad. That is pretty much what you can say about Obama's policies.

In the end relative to being president he is Ok considering the last few decades. About the only person who was around this neutral was bush Sr. Out of the last 5 presidents obama would be either number one or two with respect to the Sr. bush. Reagan pretty much made 9/11 with his meddling and destabalized the middle east. Not to mention the recession, the cementing of the military industrial complex into the most powerful industry in the US, and his many scandals. Clinton pissed away an entire new industry and promoted outsourcing and the deregulation of his republican predecessors which basically was dousing the US economy with gasoline. bush jr. lit the match and burned it down while involving us in pointless wars. Obama is not the great leader the right claims the left thinks he is, but in the end it is just rising to the top of the toilet bowl of presidents.

Your argument, as per the Op, is based on personal bias and expectations. He did things you did not want him to do, but the net result has been neutral and not the end of everything. It is just the end of your expectations the world operates as you wish it does which seems to be the major source of the anger against Obama. You remove the emotions and you rate the presidents on the overall crap they caused and obama just is not terrible. he does still have three years to mung things up worse which could sink his turd, but those have yet to be seen. If you want to ask again in three years i may be forced to rate him lower.