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A Question To Conservatives That Want To Ban All Abortions

HangLow

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The big disagreement is on the terminology used to describe a human in utero. I call it a baby, and those who align with abortion, call it a "fetus." Do you agree or disagree that a perpetrator who terminates a pregnant female should be charged with the death of the unborn child / human or not?
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nota bene

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Of course there are individual anti-abortion people that are caring community people caring for new mothers with little or nothing. Of course the the Republican party is not monolithic. But the party officially and the anti-abortion movement specifically are focused on the fetus only. Republicans just voted down an extended child care bill that would bring America within shouting distance with the family and child support of other European countries.

If you think the party and the movement are cild and family centered post the legislation they have introduced and supported through out the law making process into an actual program for families and children. You will not be able to do it. There are no Republican or anti-abortion movement programs that support families and born children.
I've no idea what Republicans are up to--perhaps those who are and participate in this forum can fill me and others in--but I'm guessing from what you've said that you're referring to national programs?

In my extensive observation and participation, help comes from one's own community, and yes, many if not most efforts are faith-based. As I've posted many times in this forum, in my community there are groups that help provide housing, GED completion, resume preparation, and skills-training to new parents. What about yours, Weaver? And what are you doing personally to meet the needs of children whose mothers chose life?

One national organization that helps born children is the National Diaper Bank Network: https://nationaldiaperbanknetwork.org/

The NDBN has various programs. Scroll down to see who supports them in your state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Diaper_Bank_Network
 

weaver2

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I've no idea what Republicans are up to--perhaps those who are and participate in this forum can fill me and others in--but I'm guessing from what you've said that you're referring to national programs?

In my extensive observation and participation, help comes from one's own community, and yes, many if not most efforts are faith-based. As I've posted many times in this forum, in my community there are groups that help provide housing, GED completion, resume preparation, and skills-training to new parents. What about yours, Weaver? And what are you doing personally to meet the needs of children whose mothers chose life?

One national organization that helps born children is the National Diaper Bank Network: https://nationaldiaperbanknetwork.org/

The NDBN has various programs. Scroll down to see who supports them in your state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Diaper_Bank_Network
Yes, community efforts count for much of the charity work that gets done. Absolutely nobody, is saying that it isn't helpful, effective, lovingly given or worthwhile. I am thankful for and respectful of all community efforts and those that work hard to provide the services. They are dedicated people. But charity is not available to all. The diaper bank serves poor mothers in 200 communities in the US. It is a private charity. It is not a national national policy program serving all poor women in the US.

Some people see community needs and commit themselves to working on those. Other people put their money and effort into working on national priorities and programs. A great country needs both.

The programs a country creates to carry out its policies is a demonstration of what that country values. The United States ranks
35th among developed countries in the % of GDP it spends on programs promoting the health, education and welfare of infants and children. We are down there with Romania 34th, Czech Republic 30th and Columbia 32nd. It is not the Democratic Party that is failing to provide national programs supporting infants and children.


There is a vast difference between a local charity and a national program. A charity defines people in need A national program is not charity it is provided to people because the country values them. It is the difference between the county poor farm and Social Security; the soup kitchen and SNAP; school books purchased by the local PTA and national support for education so all schools have all the books they need.

The National Diaper Bank Network is the creation of Joanne Samuel Goldblum. "She has a BA from New York University and an MSW from Hunter College School of Social Work. She was a clinical faculty member at Yale Child Study Center Family Support Service from 1998-2005. Goldblum was chosen as a 2007 Robert Wood Johnson Community Health Leader for her work. She is the author of the book: Broke in America: Seeing, Understanding and Ending US Poverty"
She is not a Republican.
 
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HangLow

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The big disagreement is on the terminology used to describe a human in utero. I call it a baby, and those who align with abortion, call it a "fetus." Do you agree or disagree that a perpetrator who terminates a pregnant female should be charged with the death of the unborn child / human or not?
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Conservatives don't just believe in being pro-life. They also believe in being pro-family values, pro-rule of law and order, and pro-grace before law.

IOW, hypotheticals like this only get addressed if it's first asked, "How did we get here?"
 

prometeus

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Conservatives don't just believe in being pro-life.
They are only pro-fetus hypocrites.
They also believe in being pro-family values
Right, that is why the bed over backwards to kiss the ass of a ***** grabber, one that ****s a porn star while his third wife is recovering from childbirth.
pro-rule of law and order,
Hence they oppose any investigation into their scumbag ways.
and pro-grace before law.
WTF does that mean? Some more bullshit hypocrisy?
 

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Conservatives don't just believe in being pro-life.
They don't. Pro-life conservatives get just as many abortions as do liberals.
They also believe in being pro-family values,
Voting down child care and early childhood education is not pro-family.
pro-rule of law and order,
Conservatives are for armed citizens' militias taking control of protest marches, saving property, and stopping looting by shooting violent criminals. That's vigilantism not rule of law.
and pro-grace before law.
The entire abortion issue from 1973 onwards has been an attempt to circumvent the law by lying about the process, intimidating women and providers through violence killings and shaming. This is not grace before the law.
 

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Conservatives don't just believe in being pro-life. They also believe in being pro-family values, pro-rule of law and order, and pro-grace before law.

IOW, hypotheticals like this only get addressed if it's first asked, "How did we get here?"
The only prolife position is pro-abortion. Being opposed to abortion is being anti-life, but it is no news that the only lives Conservatives care about are those not yet born and those who are already dead.
 

HangLow

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The big disagreement is on the terminology used to describe a human in utero. I call it a baby, and those who align with abortion, call it a "fetus." Do you agree or disagree that a perpetrator who terminates a pregnant female should be charged with the death of the unborn child / human or not?
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Why does one think that conservatives will be against ALL scenarios where a baby is aborted? If child birth is at high risk of ending a mother's life, then that makes sense; however, where 95% (I'm guessing on this .. although it is a majority) are aborting children because they don't feel like having a child / supporting a child. I have problems with that. If you can't support a child, take advantage of birth control (which is highly effective), abstain from sexual activity or seek measures which extremely minimize pregnancy both naturally and through science.

If you know what the word contraception means, you know spaying and neutering are the only 100% effective methods for many reasons.

If you want more babies to be born, you obviously do not want anyone to abstain from having sex. And if you oppose abortion, you want America to be overrun with too many kids. You can't have it both ways.
 

Lursa

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Why does one think that conservatives will be against ALL scenarios where a baby is aborted? If child birth is at high risk of ending a mother's life, then that makes sense;
What about when you dont know? Is it always predictable? Of course not...~1000 women die every year in the US and 86,000 more nearly do or end up with permanently severe health damage like strokes, aneurysms, kidney failure, etc. My friend's wife died in childbirth with her 2nd pregnancy...completely unpredicted. The baby died too, and it had been healthy too...it couldnt survive the horrific hours she suffered in labor.

Do you believe that the govt is entitled to demand that anyone take that risk against their will? Aside from the draft, with at least the goal of protecting the nation, and I'm against anyway...where else does the govt force citizens to risk their lives against their will?

And the question is even more relevant, when it's clear that there's a safer option available:

Abortion 14 times safer than pregnancy

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Getting a legal abortion is much safer than giving birth, suggests a new U.S. study published Monday.​
Researchers found that women were about 14 times more likely to die during or after giving birth to a live baby than to die from complications of an abortion.​
link

How do you justify the govt demanding that women risk their lives when, if they choose, there is a safer option available to them?

*Lord please save me from the common moronic deflection, 'but it wasnt safer for the baby' drama. :rolleyes: *
 

choiceone

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What about when you dont know? Is it always predictable? Of course not...~1000 women die every year in the US and 86,000 more nearly do or end up with permanently severe health damage like strokes, aneurysms, kidney failure, etc. My friend's wife died in childbirth with her 2nd pregnancy...completely unpredicted. The baby died too, and it had been healthy too...it couldnt survive the horrific hours she suffered in labor.

Do you believe that the govt is entitled to demand that anyone take that risk against their will? Aside from the draft, with at least the goal of protecting the nation, and I'm against anyway...where else does the govt force citizens to risk their lives against their will?

And the question is even more relevant, when it's clear that there's a safer option available:

Abortion 14 times safer than pregnancy

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Getting a legal abortion is much safer than giving birth, suggests a new U.S. study published Monday.​
Researchers found that women were about 14 times more likely to die during or after giving birth to a live baby than to die from complications of an abortion.​
link

How do you justify the govt demanding that women risk their lives when, if they choose, there is a safer option available to them?

*Lord please save me from the common moronic deflection, 'but it wasnt safer for the baby' drama. :rolleyes: *
Thank you for writing this. I'd like to add just one thing.

People used to think that the draft for guys equalled forcing women to give birth. Why was that wrong? Because guys could not be drafted below the age of 18 or over an age in their late 20s; they could be exempt for being too tall, short, fat, thin, having poor eyesight or hearing, being intellectually challenged, etc.

They could also get a deferment if they got into college and had a means to pay for it. A really smart and monied guy could go to college, grad school, and ultimately get a PhD all with a deferment until he aged out of the draft.

They never made these exemptions and deferments for any girls or women.
 
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