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A Question To Conservatives That Want To Ban All Abortions

Peter King

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and if she gets an abortion, he should be held responsible for that. I don't know of any prolifer who wouldn't hold him responsible.
Why? Because you think abortion is immoral and "murder" and because of that the man has to be extra punished? That is just nonsense. And that is the problem, pro-lifers are not the law. Abortion is not a crime so holding a rapist responsible for that is utter nonsense. The only way that would matter is that the woman would get financial compensation for the extra heart ache/physical problems he caused her.
Tell that to all the states that have regulated abortion the last 40 years. Elections have consequences, shall i remind you?
You mean all the states which laws were ruled unconstitutional? Got it. Constitutional rights trump extremist voters.
 

Dacke

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He should take responsibility for the doctor killing the baby??? That is twisted logic
There is neither killing nor baby inbolved in an abortion.
Why not adoption?
Why do you think women are obligated to birth babies for strangers? Why should she give up 9 months of her life just so someone else can enjoy parenting?

The mothers feelings come before the life of the baby????
What baby? What mother?

The woman's life and happiness absolutely come before the fetus'. Suggesting anything else is just ttuly monstrous and is to reduce the woman to the level of a stockfarm animal, stripping her of all her rights and denying her to live her life.

A fetus has no rights.
 

Dacke

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But now you are murdering a baby to protect the FEELINGS of the mother.
Only someone who is dishonest would refer to a fetus as a "baby". You know darn well a fetus is not a baby and you know darn well tjat you are only calling it "baby" to make an emotional argument in a dedpetate attempt to impose guilt on your opponent.
Cant she just be forced just to give it up for adoption? In that way the baby lives....and so does the mother
A civilised society does not allow the governt to impose force on its citizens. If you want that you should move to Saudi Arabia.

There is no baby.
 

jotathought

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Why does one think that conservatives will be against ALL scenarios where a baby is aborted? If child birth is at high risk of ending a mother's life, then that makes sense; however, where 95% (I'm guessing on this .. although it is a majority) are aborting children because they don't feel like having a child / supporting a child. I have problems with that. If you can't support a child, take advantage of birth control (which is highly effective), abstain from sexual activity or seek measures which extremely minimize pregnancy both naturally and through science.
 

Dacke

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Why does one think that conservatives will be against ALL scenarios where a baby is aborted? If child birth is at high risk of ending a mother's life, then that makes sense;
No, it does not make any sense at all from an anti-abortionist's POV. If the fetus is a human life with full rights, then why not kill the mother to rescue the fetus? Why do you want to sacrifice fetus for woman all of a suddent? Isn't it still an "innocent child"?



however, where 95% (I'm guessing on this .. although it is a majority) are aborting children because they don't feel like having a child / supporting a child. I have problems with that. If you can't support a child, take advantage of birth control (which is highly effective), abstain from sexual activity or seek measures which extremely minimize pregnancy both naturally and through science.
Why do you have problems with not bringing unwanted children to this world?
 

jotathought

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No, it does not make any sense at all from an anti-abortionist's POV. If the fetus is a human life with full rights, then why not kill the mother to rescue the fetus? Why do you want to sacrifice fetus for woman all of a suddent? Isn't it still an "innocent child"?




Why do you have problems with not bringing unwanted children to this world?
The big disagreement is on the terminology used to describe a human in utero. I call it a baby, and those who align with abortion, call it a "fetus." Do you agree or disagree that a perpetrator who terminates a pregnant female should be charged with the death of the unborn child / human or not?
 

Dacke

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The big disagreement is on the terminology used to describe a human in utero.
Hey! Why are you dodging my question?
I call it a baby, and those who align with abortion, call it a "fetus."
Baby is wrong. It is a fetus and should therefore be called a fetus.
Do you agree or disagree that a perpetrator who terminates a pregnant female should be charged with the death of the unborn child / human or not?
No.
 

jotathought

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Hey! Why are you dodging my question?

Baby is wrong. It is a fetus and should therefore be called a fetus.

No.
Just to be clear .. an unborn child is meaningless to you, even if it's minutes before birth? A female with a 9 month pregnancy, who is hours away from birth, could be murdered, and the unborn child is still .. just a fetus?
 

Dacke

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Just to be clear ..
Just to be clear, I asked you some questions first. Why are you trying to avoid them by asking questions of your own?

an unborn child is meaningless to you, even if it's minutes before birth?
It depends on context. Random woman in Kiribati? Absolutely meaningless, why should I care? A female relative's planned and wanted baby? A lot more meaningful. My own planned and wanted baby? Very, very, very meaningful.

A female with a 9 month pregnancy, who is hours away from birth, could be murdered, and the unborn child is still .. just a fetus?
Yes.
 

weaver2

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From USA Today, May 2019:

Just 1% of women obtain an abortion because they became pregnant through rape, and less than 0.5% do so because of incest, according to the Guttmacher Institute. Yet the battle over exceptions for both has garnered outsized attention in the national abortion debate. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ew-abortions-so-why-all-attention/1211175001/
And you know why they have garnered outsized attention because anti-abortion propaganda keeps the attention focused on the low number of pregnancies due to rape and incest, focused on dishonest reasons for late term abortions and lying about the abortifacient effects of women's bc; everything but the real reason for abortion:

unwanted pregnancies of poor and low income women because conservatives refuse to support insurance that covers the most effective women's birth control leaving these women to rely on male controlled bc: condoms or withdrawal, the bc most likely to lead to unwanted pregnancy.

The Colorado experiment is full proof that the anti-abortion movement is a move to deny women the right to control their own reproductive lives. And it is being waged primarily against poor and low wage working women.
 

jotathought

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Just to be clear, I asked you some questions first. Why are you trying to avoid them by asking questions of your own?


It depends on context. Random woman in Kiribati? Absolutely meaningless, why should I care? A female relative's planned and wanted baby? A lot more meaningful. My own planned and wanted baby? Very, very, very meaningful.


Yes.
We will not agree if you consider a child, minutes from birth, a fetus. I'd dare say, you'd considered a child that's been born and the umbilical chord still connected a fetus. It's sad and carry on ..
 

weaver2

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We will not agree if you consider a child, minutes from birth, a fetus. I'd dare say, you'd considered a child that's been born and the umbilical chord still connected a fetus. It's sad and carry on ..
You are doing exactly what I discussed in the above post; keeping attention focused on absolutely ridiculous issues about abortion in order to avoid discussion about the real reasons for abortion.

Even the dumbest of anti-abortion advocates knows that no abortions are happening minutes from birth. It's an incredibly stupid discussion point. It doesn't happen. And yes, it is called a fetus by medical science, doctors, dictionaries, technical researchers, hospital data, the census until it is born.
 

Dacke

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We will not agree if you consider a child, minutes from birth, a fetus. It's sad and carry on ..
It is not a newborn until it is born. I am observing things as they are in reality and identifying them as what they are. You are objectively wrong on this and if you think being right is sad, I cannot really do much to help you.

Minutes before birth or seconds before birth does not change the nature of it -- It is still unborn and it does not have any rights until birth.

What you are doing here is such a bad argument it is even named as a fallacy; drawing the line fallacy. Stop it and please answer my questions instead;

If "the unborn" are human beings with full rights, then why is it OK to kill them to save the pregnant woman when her life is in danger? Why not save the fetus and kill the woman?

If "the unborn" are human beings with full rights, is it not manslaughter when the woman who does not yet know she is pregnant goes to work and bumps her belly to cause a miscarriage? If the fetus is a human being with full rights she should be taken to court. If you say no, you will have to explain to me why not.
 

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Why does one think that conservatives will be against ALL scenarios where a baby is aborted? If child birth is at high risk of ending a mother's life, then that makes sense; however, where 95% (I'm guessing on this .. although it is a majority) are aborting children because they don't feel like having a child / supporting a child. I have problems with that. If you can't support a child, take advantage of birth control (which is highly effective), abstain from sexual activity or seek measures which extremely minimize pregnancy both naturally and through science.
Conservatives and the religious right working together have prevented poor and low wage working women from accessing highly effective birth control. If you have problems with abortion why do you keep voting for state and federal legislators that are against programs that support women's birth control products and processes?
 

Dacke

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My crap = a 9 month old child in the womb and the definition of what that child is ...
It is not a child. Child is an entirely different concept. If you find a dead, pregnant woman and call 911 to tell the operator you have found two bodies; one woman and one child, the police will ask you where the heck the child's body is once they arrive to the crime scene.
 

vegas giants

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Only someone who is dishonest would refer to a fetus as a "baby". You know darn well a fetus is not a baby and you know darn well tjat you are only calling it "baby" to make an emotional argument in a dedpetate attempt to impose guilt on your opponent.

A civilised society does not allow the governt to impose force on its citizens. If you want that you should move to Saudi Arabia.

There is no baby.
To fight the enemy you must defeat them with their own words
 

vegas giants

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There is neither killing nor baby inbolved in an abortion.

Why do you think women are obligated to birth babies for strangers? Why should she give up 9 months of her life just so someone else can enjoy parenting?


What baby? What mother?

The woman's life and happiness absolutely come before the fetus'. Suggesting anything else is just ttuly monstrous and is to reduce the woman to the level of a stockfarm animal, stripping her of all her rights and denying her to live her life.

A fetus has no rights.
You completely miss the point of my argument
 

weaver2

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....... I have posted for many years now to counter the extremely stale lie that those who are pro-life care only about those who are unborn but don't give a damn about the born. I don't understand why this lie continues to be repeated when you can look at almost any community and see that there are people who actively care about the born and who actively try to help them and their mothers/parents.
Of course there are individual anti-abortion people that are caring community people caring for new mothers with little or nothing. Of course the the Republican party is not monolithic. But the party officially and the anti-abortion movement specifically are focused on the fetus only. Republicans just voted down an extended child care bill that would bring America within shouting distance with the family and child support of other European countries.

If you think the party and the movement are cild and family centered post the legislation they have introduced and supported through out the law making process into an actual program for families and children. You will not be able to do it. There are no Republican or anti-abortion movement programs that support families and born children.
 
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