A Question To Conservatives That Want To Ban All Abortions

[vegas giants]

neither did the woman. If she didn't consent to concieve the baby, why should she have to consent to carry it?

The raped woman is also innocent and did nothing wrong. Anytime there is a clash of equal weight between the woman and the baby, we should prioritize the already grown woman's life first

What this means is that, in a situation where the baby(being a baby) did nothing wrong, and it was the woman consented to sex, she can't just kill the baby. However, in a situation where neither the baby nor the mother consented in its conception to begin with, then she can kill it, as it is unwittingly using her body without her ever having given her permission.

it's a terrible thing to happen, both of them are innocent, but the guilt is entirely on the rapist, and I am friendly toward the idea that, if a raped woman ends up aborting her child, it is the rapist should be charged for murder on top of it.

because it is not the mother's responsibility in such a circumstance.

I would say it's possible that it's still murder, in such a case, but it's a murder for which the rapist bears the guilt. he is entirely at fault for the chain of events that took place.

But why murder the baby? She could give it up for adoption. Are you saying the murder of this baby is justified to.protect the mothers feelings? What about a woman that uses birth control and it fails. She did not consent to that baby. Can she kill it too? Where in law do we allow murder to protect someone's feelings?

Are you saying consent to sex is consent to pregnancy? Is consent to getting in a car consent to a automobile accident injury?

 

[DarkWizard12]

"But why murder the baby?"

ask the rapist. he brought that on her, that's his responsibility now.

Are you saying consent to sex is consent to pregnancy?

as pregnancy is the natural consequence of sex....yes, yes indeed.

 

[vegas giants]

ask the rapist. he brought that on her, that's his responsibility now.

as pregnancy is the natural consequence of sex....yes, yes indeed.

But now you are murdering a baby to protect the FEELINGS of the mother


That REQUIRES murder?????


Cant she just be forced just to give it up for adoption? In that way the baby lives....and so does the mother

 

[DarkWizard12]

But now you are murdering a baby to protect the FEELINGS of the mother


That REQUIRES murder?????


Cant she just be forced just to give it up for adoption? In that way the baby lives....and so does the mother

she did not give consent. She does not owe the baby anything, as the forced mother. She did not give consent.

adoption requires she give birth. again, she did not give consent. She did not consent to have sex, and therefore, did not consent to give birth.

it does not REQUIRE a murder, it requires the rapist be held responsible. If the mother "murders her baby" if you will, it was the rapist that is therefore responsible for it.

 

[vegas giants]

she did not give consent. She does not owe the baby anything, as the forced mother. She did not give consent.

adoption requires she give birth. again, she did not give consent. She did not consent to have sex, and therefore, did not consent to give birth.

it does not REQUIRE a murder, it requires the rapist be held responsible. If the mother "murders her baby" if you will, it was the rapist that is therefore responsible for it.

And yet it is the baby that pays the price to protect the mothers feelings!!!!! Her feelings!!!!


A woman who uses birth control did not consent to pregnancy as we so clearly should also be able to murder the child to.protect her feelings

 

[Liberal7360]

Well if such a law were in effect, you tell her that it is an individual human life regardless of how it got there and that the the law of the land needs to be followed.
You additionally pose the following question.
Would you like to go someplace where abortion is legal?

Ok then remove that individual life from the woman's body so it can be that individual person.

When it's attached to another person's body it's not an individual person.

For that to be possible that zygote must be removed from the body of the woman.

So remove it from the woman's body so it can actually be come that individual person.

 

[Josie]

The woman's but you know that.

If you believe that a zygote has body autonomy then remove it from the woman and give it REAL body autonomy.

When it's inside a woman's body, the woman has body autonomy but the zygote doesn't since it's attached to another body.

So if you actually believe it's a separate entity and has body autonomy then remove it from the woman and allow it to have that body autonomy you talk about.

The idea that it's a separate human isn't a "belief" - it's fact.

You going to answer my question I've asked you twice now?

 

[Liberal7360]

From a mathematical perspective ... 10,000 vs. 350+ million is not significant. It sucks, and it's just the reality of things .. Fact is, a majority of abortions are attributed to not wanting to accept responsibility for a child. Fortunately, for everyone reading this, your parent decided not to abort your life ...

And you want an irresponsible person who doesn't want a child to be forced to have a child and raise it.

I would say the responsible person is the person who recognizes they shouldn't have the child and doesn't.

The irresponsible person who knows they are irresponsible and aren't capable of raising a child properly yet still has a child and raises it very badly is the irresponsible person.

The other irresponsible and selfish person is you. The person who knows better yet still forces your will on other people against their will in violation of their liberty and freedom.

 

[DarkWizard12]

And yet it is the baby that pays the price to protect the mothers feelings!!!!! Her feelings!!!!


A woman who uses birth control did not consent to pregnancy as we so clearly should also be able to murder the child to.protect her feelings

no. the baby pays the price because of the rape. That is why such a rapist should be charged with murder as well.

it will solve the rape epidemic over night

 

[vegas giants]

no. the baby pays the price because of the rape. That is why such a rapist should be charged with murder as well.

it will solve the rape epidemic over night

Wait.....the baby pays the price even though the baby did nothing wrong??????

We should allow people to murder a baby because a crine was committed????


Holy cow

 

[Scrabaholic]

*of abortion, you mean.

Surely you would want the government involved if say, someone murdered a 5 day old baby. That's not a choice you would allow for.

Well, since this IS the abortion forum, then of course that's what I meant.

 

[Scrabaholic]

why do you have such a problem if i think a rape victim should be able to get an abortion? Does that really bother you? Why?

Where did I say I have a problem w/ that??

 

[DarkWizard12]

Wait.....the baby pays the price even though the baby did nothing wrong??????

We should allow people to murder a baby because a crine was committed????


Holy cow

we shouldn't. we should punish rapists as murderers if such a thing occurs.

unfortunately, for you, that does not affect availability to the woman.

but this is such an easy thing to fix, without having to go after the woman for it. Simply go after the rapists, and then women won't be finding themselves in such a situation.

 

[vegas giants]

we shouldn't. we should punish rapists as murderers if such a thing occurs.

And outlaw abortion in case of rape....or kill the baby that did nothing wrong?

 

[DarkWizard12]

And outlaw abortion in case of rape....or kill the baby that did nothing wrong?

it effectively WOULD be outlawed. if a WOMAN aborts a child who is the product of rape, the RAPIST is punished as a murderer, NOT the woman.

In case it needs to be stated, it was the RAPIST who put the baby in her to begin with! Let HIM pay the price for the added crime then!

It's the same exact thing, it's just now, the onus is on the rapist, where i think it belongs in this circumstance.

 

[vegas giants]

it effectively WOULD be outlawed. if a WOMAN aborts a child who is the product of rape, the RAPIST is punished as a murderer, NOT the woman.

In case it needs to be stated, it was the RAPIST who put the baby in her to begin with! Let HIM pay the price for the added crime then!

It's the same exact thing, it's just now, the onus is on the rapist, where i think it belongs in this circumstance.

Who killed the child?

 

[Court Jester]

A child beaten and raped is horrible crime and tragedy. A female child who impregnated by an adult is terrible as well.

Killing innocent human fetuses is also a terrible tragedy.

In reality MOST abortions are not done because a woman was raped. MOST are also not done due the "health of the mother" (aka: life or death). Most abortions are merely throwing away a developing HUMAN life due to convenience and disregard for another human being.

Abortion is immoral, and that being said I don't know too many so called "conservatives" who are pro life judging the decisions of young girls or women who were savegely beaten and raped who made unfortunate choices to kill their baby the same way we condemn the vast majority of self indulged women who with eyes wide open and with utter disregard for human life abort their babies.

 

[prometeus]

Killing innocent human fetuses is also a terrible tragedy.

Right, the killing must be limited to the guilty fetuses only.

In reality MOST abortions are not done because

It is none of your ****ing business. Don't like it, do not have one and stay the hell out of other people's lives.

 

[prometeus]

we shouldn't. we should punish rapists as murderers if such a thing occurs.

unfortunately, for you, that does not affect availability to the woman.

but this is such an easy thing to fix, without having to go after the woman for it. Simply go after the rapists, and then women won't be finding themselves in such a situation.

Right, you and that idiot governor will end all rape.

 

[vegas giants]

A child beaten and raped is horrible crime and tragedy. A female child who impregnated by an adult is terrible as well.

Killing innocent human fetuses is also a terrible tragedy.

In reality MOST abortions are not done because a woman was raped. MOST are also not done due the "health of the mother" (aka: life or death). Most abortions are merely throwing away a developing HUMAN life due to convenience and disregard for another human being.

Abortion is immoral, and that being said I don't know too many so called "conservatives" who are pro life judging the decisions of young girls or women who were savegely beaten and raped who made unfortunate choices to kill their baby the same way we condemn the vast majority of self indulged women who with eyes wide open and with utter disregard for human life abort their babies.

Its ababy or it's not. You dont get to kill a baby to save your feelings

 

[Josie]

The idea that it's a separate human isn't a "belief" - it's fact.

You going to answer my question I've asked you twice now?

So that's a no, huh @Liberal7360 ?

 

[Liberal7360]

The idea that it's a separate human isn't a "belief" - it's fact.

You going to answer my question I've asked you twice now?

I did reply. You just didn't read it fully. I clearly said the woman.

And if it's a separate human, remove it from the woman's body so it can actually be separate.

The only way for it to be separate from the woman is for it to not be attached to and inside her body. The only way to do that is to remove it from her body.

Words have real meanings. You don't get to make up new meanings of words.

Definition of SEPARATE

to set or keep apart : disconnect, sever; to make a distinction between : discriminate, distinguish; sort… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Essential Meaning of separate

1: to cause (two or more people or things) to stop being together, joined, or connected : to make (people or things) separate He separated the fighters (from each other).They described the process used to separate cream from milk.(US) He fell and separated [=dislocated] his shoulder. [=caused the bone in his shoulder to move out of its proper position]
2: to be between (two things or people)A river separates the two towns. = The two towns are separated by a river. [=there is a river between the two towns]A great distance separated the sisters from each other.
3: to stop being together, joined, or connected : to become separate They walked together to the corner, but then they separated and went their separate ways.The main group separated into several smaller groups.

 

[Josie]

This question, @Liberal7360 ...

If a state enacts extremely strict gun control laws, will guns in that state be banned?

"Abortions are banned" implies that ALL abortions are banned. That's just not the case here.

How about 7 weeks? 8 weeks? 10 weeks? 12 weeks? Are all of these "an effective ban on abortion"? Why or why not?

 

[prometeus]

The idea that it's a separate human isn't a "belief" - it's fact.

Bull shit. It may be different DNA but it certainly is not separate.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Who killed the child?

According to my logic, the rapist.