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A question for Pro-Life and Anti-Abortion members only.

Chuz Life

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Chuz, no one here, out of the many people of varied political persuasions, has ever found this so-called "argument" legitimate or compelling or persuasive or clever. At all.
If you can't even persuade your fellow prolifers with it, what chance do you have of convincing the government and the Supreme Court?
As far as arguments go, it's a loser. it's silly, and it makes you look silly.
You should give it up, and work on formulating a different one.
First of all, I believe you are wrong and that they do agree with me. Even if they don't want to say so publicly.
But, you raise a fair point,...
So, to my fellow pro-lifers and anti-aborts,... I have to ask; "If it's not that you believe that a new person is born (comes into existence) at the moment of their conception,.... why then do you oppose elective abortions?

What (if not the fact that a new person is born (comes into being) at conception) is the reason for your objections?"
I believe this question (raised initially by 1069) is worthy of its own thread.

Only pro-lifers and fellow anti-aborts need respond.
 
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mpg

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I believe that life begins at conception. I thought that all pro-lifers felt that way.
 

digsbe

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I believe that a new life begins at conception as well, however that is also why I oppose abortion in the cases of rape and incest.
 

Aunt Spiker

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I believe that life begins at conception. I thought that all pro-lifers felt that way.
Interesting assumption - why'd you come to that conclusion?

I believe at this point you realize that's not the case - not everyone believes the same thing about this, yeah?
 

mpg

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Interesting assumption - why'd you come to that conclusion?

I believe at this point you realize that's not the case - not everyone believes the same thing about this, yeah?
I'm not aware of any pro-lifers who don't believe that life begins at conception.
 

Aunt Spiker

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I'm not aware of any pro-lifers who don't believe that life begins at conception.
My husband doesn't :shrug: He's very pro-life.

I believe the reasons for one's pro-life stance has more heft than the science of it.
 

mpg

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My husband doesn't :shrug: He's very pro-life.

I believe the reasons for one's pro-life stance has more heft than the science of it.
Deciding when life begins is a matter of opinion. Science can help a little when formulating that opinion but it's still an opinion.
 

Chuz Life

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My husband doesn't :shrug: He's very pro-life.

I believe the reasons for one's pro-life stance has more heft than the science of it.
Well my questions for those who call themselves pro-life or anti-abort.

The more members we can get to answer the more clear the overall picture will become.

Right?
 

Chuz Life

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I'm not aware of any pro-lifers who don't believe that life begins at conception.
That's a very interesting take on it,... as I don't think I personally could take a position on when life begins in the absense of the scientific facts that I use to support my claims.
 

Aunt Spiker

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Well my questions for those who call themselves pro-life or anti-abort.

The more members we can get to answer the more clear the overall picture will become.

Right?
In respect to your OP - I'm not responding to your OP.
I should have just stayed away from the thread - but his post was too enticing to ignore.

Ok - I'm out!
 

Josie

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Believing that life doesn't begin at conception is throwing science out of the window. Believing that the life isn't human yet is a story in a science-fiction novel. It's irrational to think that two humans can create a non-human. It's irrational to compare a living, growing, breathing human fetus to a tumor or a tapeworm.

Life begins the moment of conception. Abortion is unacceptable and, in my humble opinion, evil unless the mother's life is in danger.
 

1069

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Believing that life doesn't begin at conception is throwing science out of the window. Believing that the life isn't human yet is a story in a science-fiction novel. It's irrational to think that two humans can create a non-human. It's irrational to compare a living, growing, breathing human fetus to a tumor or a tapeworm.

I'm an eighth grade dropout, so I didn't ever get to take any biology classes like you lucky people. We were still doing "earth science" when I left. :lol:
So please, enlighten me: does the fetus breathe out of the woman's belly button, or out of her vagina?
 

Chuz Life

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I'm an eighth grade dropout, so I didn't ever get to take any biology classes like you lucky people. We were still doing "earth science" when I left. :lol:
So please, enlighten me: does the fetus breathe out of the woman's belly button, or out of her vagina?
Please don't respond to this attempted thread derail Mellie.
 

Josie

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I wasn't going to, Chuz. :)
 

OKgrannie

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Believing that life doesn't begin at conception is throwing science out of the window. Believing that the life isn't human yet is a story in a science-fiction novel. It's irrational to think that two humans can create a non-human. It's irrational to compare a living, growing, breathing human fetus to a tumor or a tapeworm.

Life begins the moment of conception. Abortion is unacceptable and, in my humble opinion, evil unless the mother's life is in danger.
Abortion is not only acceptable, in some cases it should probably be encouraged.

Inconsistancy in the “life begins at conception” argument « Human Enhancement and Biopolitics

It is evident that the idea that life begins at conception is at odds with reality. Many human beings can result from a single conception, many conceptions can result in just one human being and theoretically human beings could develop without any conception event occurring at all. The idea that conception is a key point in the process of development is unfounded, as the potential to develop into a human being is not only possessed by sperm and eggs, but is completely logically fallacious in the first place. In addition, it doesn’t even appear that being a human being qualifies as having the intrinsic value required to convey moral status, as it is possible that non-human beings should have same intrinsic value attributed to ‘human life’. Neither can genetics rescue this argument, for a unique genetic composition is possessed by some non-human beings, and some human beings don’t have a unique genetic composition. Finally, the way most people act normally, and the way nature is, is very wasteful of zygotes, making the conclusions of this argument very difficult in practice.

It is not a scientific fact that human life begins at conception. The truth is that human life, in the sense of a person like you or I, emerges slowly from the genetic information and molecules that made up the sperm and eggs in your parents body, from the processes of controlled growth of the resulting embryo and foetus, using nutrients that nourished you in the womb. Science informs us that it is a continuous process. Those looking for a nice distinct point in time that can be used as the starting point of each person’s existence will be sorely disappointed if they look at the science. Philosophically, I’d argue that no intrinsic value of human beings exists, except for the value applied by a being to itself. Although this may be criticised for being overly restrictive (not attributing any intrinsic value to neonates), this criticism only works if we have a another significant reason to think neonates should have such value – I do not believe such a reason exists (see also the latter part of this post).
 

Chuz Life

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Abortion is not only acceptable, in some cases it should probably be encouraged.

Inconsistancy in the “life begins at conception” argument « Human Enhancement and Biopolitics

It is evident that the idea that life begins at conception is at odds with reality. Many human beings can result from a single conception, many conceptions can result in just one human being and theoretically human beings could develop without any conception event occurring at all. The idea that conception is a key point in the process of development is unfounded, as the potential to develop into a human being is not only possessed by sperm and eggs, but is completely logically fallacious in the first place. In addition, it doesn’t even appear that being a human being qualifies as having the intrinsic value required to convey moral status, as it is possible that non-human beings should have same intrinsic value attributed to ‘human life’. Neither can genetics rescue this argument, for a unique genetic composition is possessed by some non-human beings, and some human beings don’t have a unique genetic composition. Finally, the way most people act normally, and the way nature is, is very wasteful of zygotes, making the conclusions of this argument very difficult in practice.

It is not a scientific fact that human life begins at conception. The truth is that human life, in the sense of a person like you or I, emerges slowly from the genetic information and molecules that made up the sperm and eggs in your parents body, from the processes of controlled growth of the resulting embryo and foetus, using nutrients that nourished you in the womb. Science informs us that it is a continuous process. Those looking for a nice distinct point in time that can be used as the starting point of each person’s existence will be sorely disappointed if they look at the science. Philosophically, I’d argue that no intrinsic value of human beings exists, except for the value applied by a being to itself. Although this may be criticised for being overly restrictive (not attributing any intrinsic value to neonates), this criticism only works if we have a another significant reason to think neonates should have such value – I do not believe such a reason exists (see also the latter part of this post).
Spamming from a blog to derail a thread.

Is there anything you won't do to muddy the waters, 10?

This thread is for pro-liers and anti-aborted to chime in one whether or not they agree that conception begins a new persons life.

That conception is the moment a new human being comes into existence.

This thread is not the place to berrate them for their beliefs.
 

1069

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Spamming from a blog to derail a thread.

Is there anything you won't do to muddy the waters, 10?

Are you insinuating that OKGrannie and I are in fact the same person?
Or are you merely going senile?

:confused:
 

Jerry

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I believe this question (raised initially by 1069) is worthy of its own thread.

Only pro-lifers and fellow anti-aborts need respond.
I'm opposing hyper-individualism and the whimsical dereliction of responsibility far more than I'm opposing abortion.
 

Chuz Life

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Are you insinuating that OKGrannie and I are in fact the same person?
Or are you merely going senile?

:confused:
If I am as senile as it seems,... my answer to your question is both.

Whatever it takes to keep the thread on topic.

PS,... My apologies to both of you and thanks for your understanding and future co-operation.
 

Chuz Life

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I'm opposing hyper-individualism and the whimsical dereliction of responsibility far more than I'm opposing abortion.
I hadn't seen that one before, Jerry.

Do you want to go on record for the other (OP) question?
 

Chuz Life

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Maybe I'm just tired Jerry,...

I don't get how that post responds to the question in my op,..... "do you believe that conception gives birth to existence of a new human being?" A new "person" if you will and that their life begins at conception and that they have a right to their life,... blah blah blah.

If you don't that's fine.

If you do agree, that's fine, too.

And if you don't know or haven't decided,... that works too.
 

Jerry

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Maybe I'm just tired Jerry,...

I don't get how that post responds to the question in my op,..... "do you believe that conception gives birth to existence of a new human being?" A new "person" if you will and that their life begins at conception and that they have a right to their life,... blah blah blah.

If you don't that's fine.

If you do agree, that's fine, too.

And if you don't know or haven't decided,... that works too.
"To be quite frank about it, I’m not totally convinced that life begins at conception. Sure, that’s when the human life cycle starts, but so what? If the soul is not present then there is no crime in aborting the ZEF. The fact that science is just starting to scratch the surface regarding the issue of the soul keeps the issue difficult to argue."

Add to that scripture declaring the life to be in the blood, and any abortion of a ZEF which hasn't developed blood yet is perfectly fine.
 
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Chuz Life

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"To be quite frank about it, I’m not totally convinced that life begins at conception. Sure, that’s when the human life cycle starts, but so what? If the soul is not present then there is no crime in aborting the ZEF. The fact that science is just starting to scratch the surface regarding the issue of the soul keeps the issue difficult to argue."

Add to that scripture declaring the life to be in the blood, and any abortion of a ZEF which hasn't developed blood yet is perfectly fine.
Ok,... I'm at a loss for words now.

So I'll just say thanks.
 

1069

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"To be quite frank about it, I’m not totally convinced that life begins at conception. Sure, that’s when the human life cycle starts, but so what? If the soul is not present then there is no crime in aborting the ZEF. The fact that science is just starting to scratch the surface regarding the issue of the soul keeps the issue difficult to argue."

Add to that scripture declaring the life to be in the blood, and any abortion of a ZEF which hasn't developed blood yet is perfectly fine.
When did you develop this little theory?
I don't think I've heard it before.
In fact, it seems quite different from the tune you were playing a couple of years ago.

Hey, put this in your pipe and smoke it:

Breath is a Divine Truth

Maybe breath equals life, therefore it's okay to abort at any time before birth (breath).
There's plenty of biblical precedent for that.
 
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