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A Question for my fellow Libertarians

Psychoclown

Clown Prince of Politics
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I know a lot of us traditionally voted Republican but feel increasingly distanced from that party and its policies lately. A lot of us, myself included, have stopped supporting Republican candidates simply because we dislike the other party's guy more.

My question to the libertarians is what will it take in a candidate for you to support them? Many libertarian views are way outside the mainstream. Things like abolishing the Federal Reserve, repealing the 14th amendment, radical and immediate government cuts, eliminating income taxes, withdrawing from the UN, legalizing or decriminalizing drugs, ect. I know not every libertarian supports these ideas, but they are heard on these boards fairly regularly. Yet, no viable mainstream candidate could endorse these views. They wouldn't stand a chance of being elected dog catcher with those views, that's just a fact of life today. So how willing are we to bend? Are we going to let the fictional "perfect candidate" become the enemy of the good candidate? What core values or positions would you demand from a candidate and what would you be willing to compromise on or push aside for pragmatic political realities?
 
I know a lot of us traditionally voted Republican but feel increasingly distanced from that party and its policies lately. A lot of us, myself included, have stopped supporting Republican candidates simply because we dislike the other party's guy more.

My question to the libertarians is what will it take in a candidate for you to support them? Many libertarian views are way outside the mainstream. Things like abolishing the Federal Reserve, repealing the 14th amendment, radical and immediate government cuts, eliminating income taxes, withdrawing from the UN, legalizing or decriminalizing drugs, ect. I know not every libertarian supports these ideas, but they are heard on these boards fairly regularly. Yet, no viable mainstream candidate could endorse these views. They wouldn't stand a chance of being elected dog catcher with those views, that's just a fact of life today. So how willing are we to bend? Are we going to let the fictional "perfect candidate" become the enemy of the good candidate? What core values or positions would you demand from a candidate and what would you be willing to compromise on or push aside for pragmatic political realities?

I'd like to see a candidate propose some sort of repeal to the recent firearms regulations passed.

That and maybe a divestment of government schools.
 
Well I'm looking for progress. If a candidate came up and as a tried and true small government politician I could be swayed to vote for them. I know that a lot of what I want can't get accomplished right off the bat, but we have to make a real movement towards small government. Decrease spending for sure, decrease taxes, no nation building, start getting the federal government out of the State's business sort of thing. Maybe we can't completely get rid of all the government agencies that should be scrapped, but if we can make good, earnest steps towards smaller government I would give that politician a honest read; see what they are about. Of course, getting rid of most gun laws would be a nice bonus too.
 
I joined the Republican Liberty Caucus so at least get my point of view across in the local arena. Currently Im doing what I can to help the LP candidate for the special election in NYs 20th district in addition working with the local Campaign for Liberty Group. Our best course of action is to help with the GOP rebuilding process along with our activism with the LP. As far as compromises go I was willing to support Fred Thompson if he got the nomination instead of Ron Paul as we know that didnt happen and I voted for Barr instead. Currently Im keeping an eye on Governor Huntsman with his current support for civil unions for gay couples.
 
I know a lot of us traditionally voted Republican but feel increasingly distanced from that party and its policies lately. A lot of us, myself included, have stopped supporting Republican candidates simply because we dislike the other party's guy more.

My question to the libertarians is what will it take in a candidate for you to support them? Many libertarian views are way outside the mainstream. Things like abolishing the Federal Reserve, repealing the 14th amendment, radical and immediate government cuts, eliminating income taxes, withdrawing from the UN, legalizing or decriminalizing drugs, ect. I know not every libertarian supports these ideas, but they are heard on these boards fairly regularly. Yet, no viable mainstream candidate could endorse these views. They wouldn't stand a chance of being elected dog catcher with those views, that's just a fact of life today. So how willing are we to bend? Are we going to let the fictional "perfect candidate" become the enemy of the good candidate? What core values or positions would you demand from a candidate and what would you be willing to compromise on or push aside for pragmatic political realities?

I would rally behind nearly anybody that had a plan to shrink the size of the federal goverment.

This could involve any number of things....but they need to convince me that shrinking government is the goal, not simply to grow at a slower rate then their competitors.

Can anybody honestly claim that a single GOP candidate outside of Ron Paul planned to do such a thing?
 
Ron Paul was my candidate, he wasn't on the ticket so I didn't vote. What will it take to get me to vote for someone? A candidate I agree with and who doesn't pick a numbskull for a running mate. There isn't much I'm willing to compromise on.
 
What core values or positions would you demand from a candidate and what would you be willing to compromise on or push aside for pragmatic political realities?

I would demand a candidate that embraced fiscal conservatism, i.e. balanced budgets, decreased spending, lower taxes, and a respect for free-market economics. Not fiscally conservative equals out of the question in my book.

What I would be willing to make certain compromises on is my social agenda. Just so long as they were not some puritanical, Bible-thumping moralist I'd be apt to give them my vote.

I guess what it boils down to is a serious fiscal conservative with a moderate social agenda. That is someone I would be willing to vote for, but until that person comes along I'm sticking with Ron.
 
I guess what it boils down to is a serious fiscal conservative with a moderate social agenda.

What is a 'moderate social agenda'? Why does the government even need to have a 'social agenda'?
 
What is a 'moderate social agenda'?

Someone who has morals but doesn't feel the need to legislate them.

Why does the government even need to have a 'social agenda'?

It doesn't. My "social agenda" is negative. It entails getting the government out of the morality business. Legalizing victimless crimes, so to speak.
 
The Republican party is no more libertarian than the Democrat party is. A candidate from either of those parties would have a lot of convincing to do before I would consider ever supporting him.

Obviously a candidate I would support must demonstrate a commitment to libertarian principles, but he must also be of good character and trustworthy in the office. With Ron Paul, I know he is all about advancing the cause of liberty and focusing on the issues, not about advancing his own career. In the last election, the LP's candidate Bob Barr showed neither of these characteristics and thus lost my vote.
 
Not surprised to hear a steady call for candidates supporting "small government". But I was hoping for more specifics. Any specific cuts you think are both doable and politically feasible? Any spending increases you could accept, if not support (again assuming overall there was a reduction in the overall scope of government). And lastly, are there any candidates on the horizion you're looking at other than Dr. Paul?

I've heard Mark Sanford of South Carolina mentioned as a guy who has a libertarian bent, but is more mainstream and charismatic than Paul. Anyone know anything about him and his policies? And would anyone who is familiar with him find him acceptable?
 
I know a lot of us traditionally voted Republican but feel increasingly distanced from that party and its policies lately. A lot of us, myself included, have stopped supporting Republican candidates simply because we dislike the other party's guy more.

My question to the libertarians is what will it take in a candidate for you to support them? Many libertarian views are way outside the mainstream. Things like abolishing the Federal Reserve, repealing the 14th amendment, radical and immediate government cuts, eliminating income taxes, withdrawing from the UN, legalizing or decriminalizing drugs, ect. I know not every libertarian supports these ideas, but they are heard on these boards fairly regularly. Yet, no viable mainstream candidate could endorse these views. They wouldn't stand a chance of being elected dog catcher with those views, that's just a fact of life today. So how willing are we to bend? Are we going to let the fictional "perfect candidate" become the enemy of the good candidate? What core values or positions would you demand from a candidate and what would you be willing to compromise on or push aside for pragmatic political realities?

A GOP candidate with solid Conservative credentials would be somebody that I can get behind.
 
I've heard Mark Sanford of South Carolina mentioned as a guy who has a libertarian bent, but is more mainstream and charismatic than Paul. Anyone know anything about him and his policies? And would anyone who is familiar with him find him acceptable?

I'm right across the border from him, but I just moved here. The only thing I have heard, is he wants to reject the "stimulus" money that is to be allocated to his state, from the Federal government. His legislature is working against him, to basically force him to accept the money. Other than that, I don't know anything else about him.
 
I would rally behind nearly anybody that had a plan to shrink the size of the federal goverment.

This could involve any number of things....but they need to convince me that shrinking government is the goal, not simply to grow at a slower rate then their competitors.

Can anybody honestly claim that a single GOP candidate outside of Ron Paul planned to do such a thing?
Why do you think Rush Limbaugh started speaking out like at CPAC? And don't start with the "he supported Bush" crap, Limbaugh was a conservative long before Bush came along. He couldn't have built up a radio empire single-handedly (prior to Bush) if he hadn't touch mainstream America.
 
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Why do you think Rush Limbaugh started speaking out like at CPAC? And don't start with the "he supported Bush" crap, Limbaugh was a conservative long before Bush came along. He couldn't have built up a radio empire single-handedly (prior to Bush) if he hadn't touch mainstream America.

Ummmm mainstream America is not 20 million listeners. That's less then half of the people who voted for McCain last election and basically 1/15th of the entire American population.
 
A "libertarian" candidate would:

Limit his proposals to the powers of Congress defined by Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution.

Would recognize self-defense as a libertarian principle and recognize that the black line on the map between the United States and Mexico defines where the defense is needed. I'm not going to diverge into long disertations here. If you disagree, I'm libertarian enough to allow you the freedom to be wrong.

A libertarian candidate knows what the words "shall not be infringed" means.

A libertarian candidate is aware that the abortion issue ends a baby's life. The woman's "choice" on what to do with "her" body ends with "her" body. The baby inside her created because she chose to get pregnant isn't guilty of any crimes and it's murder cannot be sanctioned by the state. Logic's a sharpt tool. Use it carefully and don't blunt it with emotion.

A libertarian candidate understand that it's wrong to forbid American companies to get the oil under our own damn feet. Drilling and utilizing the immense domestic resources in America to preserve our liberty is important and quintessentially libertarian....read the next one.

A libertarian candidate knows that the US shouldn't have tens of thousands of men stationed on foreign lands.....and he also knows that the reason almost all of those men are there is to protect the energy sources we currently can't live without. Establish energy independence and eliminate the need for foreign interventionism in one concept: drill, dig, and glow US.

A libertarian candidate understands Captain John Smith's maxim: He who won't work, won't eat. NO ONE has a "right" to your wages.

A libertarian candidate will recognize the basic injustice of any court system than can rule in favor of New London on the Kelo v New London case. That system needs a serious overhaul.

Ain't no libertarian candidates out there.
 
I have never voted Republican or Democrat.
The American 2-party system is bankrupted and we should not settle for less than liberty.
 
A "libertarian" candidate would:

Limit his proposals to the powers of Congress defined by Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution.

Would recognize self-defense as a libertarian principle and recognize that the black line on the map between the United States and Mexico defines where the defense is needed. I'm not going to diverge into long disertations here. If you disagree, I'm libertarian enough to allow you the freedom to be wrong.

A libertarian candidate knows what the words "shall not be infringed" means.

A libertarian candidate is aware that the abortion issue ends a baby's life. The woman's "choice" on what to do with "her" body ends with "her" body. The baby inside her created because she chose to get pregnant isn't guilty of any crimes and it's murder cannot be sanctioned by the state. Logic's a sharpt tool. Use it carefully and don't blunt it with emotion.

A libertarian candidate understand that it's wrong to forbid American companies to get the oil under our own damn feet. Drilling and utilizing the immense domestic resources in America to preserve our liberty is important and quintessentially libertarian....read the next one.

A libertarian candidate knows that the US shouldn't have tens of thousands of men stationed on foreign lands.....and he also knows that the reason almost all of those men are there is to protect the energy sources we currently can't live without. Establish energy independence and eliminate the need for foreign interventionism in one concept: drill, dig, and glow US.

A libertarian candidate understands Captain John Smith's maxim: He who won't work, won't eat. NO ONE has a "right" to your wages.

A libertarian candidate will recognize the basic injustice of any court system than can rule in favor of New London on the Kelo v New London case. That system needs a serious overhaul.

Ain't no libertarian candidates out there.

Out of curiosity, would your dream candidate here support the right of two loving adults of the same sex to get married?

Also, would you still accept a candidate that disagreed with you on an issue, if his decision stemmed from libertarian philosophy (e.g., that a the government has no right to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her own body, and therefore supports abortion rights?) Just curious.
 
Out of curiosity, would your dream candidate here support the right of two loving adults of the same sex to get married?

Sure, why not? None of his business, is it?

Also, would you still accept a candidate that disagreed with you on an issue, if his decision stemmed from libertarian philosophy (e.g., that a the government has no right to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her own body, and therefore supports abortion rights?) Just curious.

No. If he's pro-abortion, he ain't a libertarian. Libertarians don't accept murder as a means to individual freedom. It sorta denies the dead guy the most basic human right of all.

A libertarian agrees that a woman has the freedom to say "no" to sex, that rape is a crime. No libertarian agrees that babies should be murdered for the woman's convenience.
 
Why do you think Rush Limbaugh started speaking out like at CPAC? And don't start with the "he supported Bush" crap, Limbaugh was a conservative long before Bush came along. He couldn't have built up a radio empire single-handedly (prior to Bush) if he hadn't touch mainstream America.

You know the conservative cause is dying when a hack like Rush Limbaugh is so highly regarded.

why did he speak out at CPAC? I'm more curious of why he didn't speak out the 8 years prior. Strike that, I'm not curious. I already know he is a partisan hack which is why he was silent when his "side" was implementing new deals.
 
You know the conservative cause is dying when a hack like Rush Limbaugh is so highly regarded.

Hardly.

You know conservative America, the real America, is thriving in the heartland when the President feels the urge to attack a radio talk show host that speaks to those Americans.

why did he speak out at CPAC?

Because the Republican party leadership has become nothing more than the willing pawns of the of the humonguous socialist party that's dominated by the Democrats, and Rush thought they should be spanked publicly.

The Republicans pretend to support American values, then always turn around and act exactly like the Democrats. That's why the Democrats haven't lost the last two election cycles....the Americans have stayed home. If the Republicans want the American vote, they have to stop imitating Democrats.

Its really that simple. No more McCain Democrat Socialists, no more Bush Democrat Socialists, it's time for some Americans to come forward and claim the GOP or for the GOP to vanish into the enormous rectum that is the Democrat party. If the Americans can't win an election from the Democrats, America is dead, the experiment started by the patriots in 1776 failed, and darkness will reign for a while.

There will be an new Isuldur, though. Always is, eventually.
 
Hardly.

You know conservative America, the real America, is thriving in the heartland when the President feels the urge to attack a radio talk show host that speaks to those Americans.

Really? I dont feel that he attacked me. I could care less when some stupid socialist Democrat attacks a draft dodging loud mouthed *****. Im pissed that Obama took a detour from his actual job.

Because the Republican party leadership has become nothing more than the willing pawns of the of the humonguous socialist party that's dominated by the Democrats, and Rush thought they should be spanked publicly.

Hey the GOP let the Neoconservatives infect their party, you can only blame the Democrats for so much. The GOP lost do to from its failures to actually sticking to its guns and just made excuses.

The Republicans pretend to support American values, then always turn around and act exactly like the Democrats. That's why the Democrats haven't lost the last two election cycles....the Americans have stayed home. If the Republicans want the American vote, they have to stop imitating Democrats.

So tell me what are American values? Last time I checked values vary by the person its not a monolith concept


Its really that simple. No more McCain Democrat Socialists, no more Bush Democrat Socialists, it's time for some Americans to come forward and claim the GOP or for the GOP to vanish into the enormous rectum that is the Democrat party. If the Americans can't win an election from the Democrats, America is dead, the experiment started by the patriots in 1776 failed, and darkness will reign for a while.

There will be an new Isuldur, though. Always is, eventually.

Funny those who called Bush a socialist now had no problem cheering his ass on during the last eight years. If the GOP goes the way of the dodo (although not likely) I could care less. The Libertarian Party would have no problem stepping in.
 
Sure, why not? None of his business, is it?

No. If he's pro-abortion, he ain't a libertarian. Libertarians don't accept murder as a means to individual freedom. It sorta denies the dead guy the most basic human right of all.

A libertarian agrees that a woman has the freedom to say "no" to sex, that rape is a crime. No libertarian agrees that babies should be murdered for the woman's convenience.

You know, there's a fair amount of pro-choice libertarians out there. The official Libertarian Party platform is even pro-choice. These people are hardly fake libertarians or anything. They just disagree on the basics from you. I'm not sure why you think you have the right to speak for all libertarians... It isn't a dogmatic viewpoint, there are disagreements. People aren't evil or malicious if they disagree with you.

Here's the wiki page on the issue, in case you want to expand your horizon. I'm not neccesarily saying Abortion should be treated one way or another, I'm just saying that you shouldn't be so confident you know exactly what THE libertarian position is.

Libertarian perspectives on abortion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hardly.

You know conservative America, the real America, is thriving in the heartland when the President feels the urge to attack a radio talk show host that speaks to those Americans.
The Real America? And what exactly is the "real" America? I'm from California, am I a Real American? If not, am I a "fake" American?


Because the Republican party leadership has become nothing more than the willing pawns of the of the humonguous socialist party that's dominated by the Democrats, and Rush thought they should be spanked publicly.
Yes, the Republicans are nothing but Democrat pawns. That's just rich. That's why the GOP has been filibustering almost every bill passing through congress... and all of those things they argue about, and that posters argue about on this board... no difference at all, right?

The Republicans pretend to support American values, then always turn around and act exactly like the Democrats. That's why the Democrats haven't lost the last two election cycles....the Americans have stayed home. If the Republicans want the American vote, they have to stop imitating Democrats.
Since you know all the answer, what are "American values", and if they're so widespread, why did the majority of the country elect someone which, under your views, doesn't have them? Obama didn't win because Republicans didn't come out. McCain didn't have that problem. Obama won because people came out to vote that had never voted before. I think you're a bit mistaken on everything. What specifically do you think McCain should have done differently, proposed policy wise?

Its really that simple. No more McCain Democrat Socialists, no more Bush Democrat Socialists, it's time for some Americans to come forward and claim the GOP or for the GOP to vanish into the enormous rectum that is the Democrat party. If the Americans can't win an election from the Democrats, America is dead, the experiment started by the patriots in 1776 failed, and darkness will reign for a while.

Ever occur to you that the Democratic Party has America's best interest at heart too, they just disagree on how to best run this country?

There will be an new Isuldur, though. Always is, eventually.

Isuldur? You may be the one poster here even nerdier than me. :mrgreen:
 
You know, there's a fair amount of pro-choice libertarians out there.

ABSOLUTELY.

There's not one single true libertarian who is against women having the freedom to control their own bodies.

There's not one single true libertarian out there who supports any woman's decision to murder their babies.

The official Libertarian Party platform is even pro-choice.

I'll let you in on a little secret soooo many people can't figure out on their own.

The Democrats don't actually support democracy.

The Republicans don't give a crap about the republic.

The Constitution Party doesn't actually understand what the Constitution is for.

And the Libertarian Party is trolling for votes, not promoting real libertarianism.

Women who don't want to get pregnant have the freedom to choose to not engage in those activities that lead to pregnancy.

It's not complicated.

Women who are pregnant? Don't have a special right bestowed them to murder babies inside them.

As you might want to check out for yourself, the Fourteenth Amendment guarantees equal protection under the law for all persons in the United States, and the law doesn't define what a "person"...but Scott Peterson is on death row for a double homicide.

These people are hardly fake libertarians or anything.

No. They're genuine fake libertarians.

Of did you not see the clown they put up in front as their presidential candidate this year?

A Republican.

They just disagree on the basics from you.

Because I'm a real libertarian, unlike them, I do not attempt to deny them their strenuous efforts to be wrong.

I'm not sure why you think you have the right to speak for all libertarians...

You could try starting with the First Amendment.

Then you could realize that I don't speak for all libertarians, only the real ones, the ones that don't accept the murder of babies as some woman's choice of convenience.

It isn't a dogmatic viewpoint, there are disagreements. People aren't evil or malicious if they disagree with you.

No, they're evil and malicious if they want to pretend women have some mysterious right to murder babies.

What has that baby done to them?

Here's the wiki page on the issue, in case you want to expand your horizon. I'm not neccesarily saying Abortion should be treated one way or another, I'm just saying that you shouldn't be so confident you know exactly what THE libertarian position is.Libertarian perspectives on abortion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wow.

You can spell "wiki".

I'm impressed....?

The Real America? And what exactly is the "real" America? I'm from California, am I a Real American? If not, am I a "fake" American?

Real Americans ... you know, non-socialists? The independent self-reliant cusses that built this country, not the pants wetting whiners that support the nonsense the Republicans and Democrats put out after scaring the weak-sisters half-to-death because they're stupid?

Me.

Others, like me.

People who don't like seeing babies murdered because some woman who had the chance to say "no" said "yes yes yes ohmygodYES!!!", and then said a week later..."but I'll get fat and have to buy those maternity clothes".

Americans.

To put it more simply...not one single American voted for Obama.

Didn't happen.

Yes, the Republicans are nothing but Democrat pawns. That's just rich. That's why the GOP has been filibustering almost every bill passing through congress... and all of those things they argue about, and that posters argue about on this board... no difference at all, right?

Nothing significant.

I ain't wasting time listing the similarities. Anyone that watched this last election with open eyes saw them.

It's the same thing seen in all elections since 1988.

The Americans are confronted with two blithering socialist idiots promising to move the nation farther away from the founding ideals expressed in the Constitution, the ideals that made this nation what it used to be. Since you people wanted a socialist island paradise like Cuba, you're going to get one.

Happy?

Since you know all the answer, what are "American values", and if they're so widespread, why did the majority of the country elect someone which, under your views, doesn't have them?

They're not widespread.

Only real men and real women can be Americans. You people have had a mental infection that worked something like the mumps, and you're no longer eligible for club membership.

Obama didn't win because Republicans didn't come out.

No. Obama has amazing teleprompter reading skills that I most certainly hope he can use to their fullest advantage to restore the authority of the Constitution to this former republic. It's the only road that doesn't lead downwards.

McCain didn't have that problem.

No. McCain lost because the Democrats have been dying to face McCain since 2000, at least. You don't wonder why?

Because McCain's a liberal. Amnesty on the mexican invasion, anti-border security, sounds like a Democrat (or a Bush, not much difference all around there), and has the speaking skills of Albore.

Teleprompter reading skills, the Democrat secret weapon!!!

Obama won because people came out to vote that had never voted before.

Glad you said "people", not Americans.

People are pretty damn stupid. Didn't "people" put Clinton in office, twice? All you have to do is take "people" by the nose and run around in circles, and they follow and have fun. "People" aren't very bright. You can tell. They elected Obama.

I think you're a bit mistaken on everything.

I know you're mistaken. You support Obama.

What specifically do you think McCain should have done differently, proposed policy wise?

Not a god damned thing. He's a socialist. No one would have believed him if he'd said anything useful. The mob of "people" are indoctrinated now that only socialism will rescue them, the few men that don't want "rescuing", that prefer freedom to socialist slavery, there's not enough of us left to turn an election when you people have the mob in it's perpetual stationary panic, which is nowhere near as much fun as the Modified Stationary Panic, if that reference means anything to you non-Americans.

Ever occur to you that the Democratic Party has America's best interest at heart too, they just disagree on how to best run this country?

You mean the Democrat Party that fought tooth and nail to stop Reagan from winning the Cold War, the Democratic Party that has as it's drunken elder statesman Teddy Drown'em and Rape'em Kennedy?

Ted Kennedy, the KBG, and Liberal Bias


When Boris Yeltsin came to power in Russia in 1991, he opened the Soviet archives. Tim Sebastian of the BBC and the London Times found a stunning document about Ted Kennedy. Sebastian published "Teddy, the KBG and the top secret file" in the London Times on February 2,1992. The liberal news media in the US never reported this story.

Paul Kendor, an author and professor of political science at Grove City College, was alerted by Marko Suprun about the Kennedy document. Suprun's father had survived Stalin's Russia (Ukraine) in the 1930's. Marko had been trying to get the American media to cover the Kennedy story without success. Marko knew that Paul Kendor had been researching Ronald Reagan and the Cold War, so he sent Kendor a copy.

Paul Kendor checked out the Kennedy document with Herb Romerstein, a respected Venona researcher and Communist Party expert. Also Harvard's Richard Pipes, along with other scholars read both the translations and the original.

In May 14,1983 Viktor Chebrikov , head of the KBG, wrote to Yuri Andropov about an offer from Sen. Ted Kennedy. Kennedy's friend, John Tunney, presented the letter. Kennedy blamed President Ronald Reagan for the bad relationship between the US and the USSR. Kennedy didn't like Star Wars, the MX, and the Pershing II's rockets. Kennedy wanted Ronald Reagan's re election bid stopped; so Kennedy offered a number of PR moves to counter Reagan's propaganda. He wanted to hook up the Soviets with the American media, like Walter Cronkite and Barbra Walters, to present the USSR's case to the American public.

Don't bother blathering about how I just linked a blog, one of the contemporaries covering that story was the American Spectator.

NEITHER the Democratic nor the Republican wings of the US Socialist Party has done a thing to stop the invasion of the United States by Mexico.

Nor have they worked effectively to end the welfare state causing all the deficit spending.

No. I can say categorically the Democrats are not working to preserve this country nor are they working in this nation's interests.

I'ts not hard to figure out. The deliberate courses of action taken, always in the wrong direction, always in against the Constitution, can't be due to accident or obtuseness (not even the Republicans can be that stupid). No. The party leaders aren't stupid people, they know what they're doing to us and for themselves.

Princess Pelosi needed her own jet transport because....?

She wanted one. And to think the idiots kept babbling about "King George Bush".


Isuldur? You may be the one poster here even nerdier than me. :mrgreen:

DAMN FEW people can create LOTR references and mention Modified Stationary Panic. Fewer can name the inventor of the MSP and where it was published without the internet.
 
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