A question for athiests

[Cloud9]

You lay the claim that you can support evidence for God.

What is the basis for this evidence?

You reference a 'moral code' in another post.

What is the basis for this moral code?

You note that most passages occur in the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy, but don't address the rest. However, you state that the God to which you refer is not Judeo-Christian.

May I ask to what God you're making reference?

Does this mean you follow no religion, but believe in God (which is fine)?

You didn't answer the following:

"I didn't say that you would be cognizant that there is an entire race of 4D beings. You'd only know about the one that has presented him/herself to you, and this being has god-like powers from your perspective, but in his realm, his powers are nothing special as any 4D being can do the same.

Since he's not God, he's not bound by concepts of honesty, but is a 4D being that is one billion years more advanced than our puny human evolutionary scale and civilization, how would a believer like yourself be able to distinguish between God and the 4D being or would it simply take a 4D being that's a billion years more advanced than us for you to drop to your knees and pray?"

 

[The Real McCoy]

STOP ALREADY!

You lay the claim that you can support evidence for God.

What is the basis for this evidence?

You reference a 'moral code' in another post.

What is the basis for this moral code?

I plainly stated both the evidence and the basis of the moral code in other posts. If this bothers you that much, go seek the answers to your questions for they are there.

You note that most passages occur in the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy, but don't address the rest. However, you state that the God to which you refer is not Judeo-Christian.

I didn't think I had to address the rest. Either way, I addressed them ALL when I acknowledged the hypocricy of them. They ALL contradict commandments given in other parts of the Bible.

May I ask to what God you're making reference?

Um, the one who created the universe?

Does this mean you follow no religion, but believe in God (which is fine)?

I think that's plainly obvious.

You didn't answer the following:

"I didn't say that you would be cognizant that there is an entire race of 4D beings. You'd only know about the one that has presented him/herself to you, and this being has god-like powers from your perspective, but in his realm, his powers are nothing special as any 4D being can do the same.

Since he's not God, he's not bound by concepts of honesty, but is a 4D being that is one billion years more advanced than our puny human evolutionary scale and civilization, how would a believer like yourself be able to distinguish between God and the 4D being or would it simply take a 4D being that's a billion years more advanced than us for you to drop to your knees and pray?"

I DID answer those. A creator of our universe who is not unique among among an entire race of supernatural beings would be deceptive, contadicting the triumph of honest in our universe.


NOW: LEAVE ME ALONE. Just give it up. Please.

 

[hipsterdufus]

To those who do not believe in God and an afterlife, I propose this question: what difference would it make if someone were to lead a long, healthy, honorable life or if they went on a murderous rampage (Columbine for example) and then committed suicide? Is death not all the same in the end? Why exist in the first place?

And do you people honestly believe in purposless evolution? I'm not saying evolution doesn't exist because it does, clear as day. But WHY does it happen? What guides it? Nature? What initiated nature?

Be just and good. That's my creed. I don't need god to tell me to be good, I also don't need Her to tell me to go to war.

Using your line of logic, if all-non Christians are going to hell as some faiths believe, why put this question out to just Atheists?

BTW- I am not an athiest, but an agnostic atheist - I don't think that god exists, but I'm not certain one way or the other.

In their fascinating and eloquent valetudinarian correspondence, Adams and Jefferson had a great deal to say about religion. Pressed by Jefferson to define his personal creed, Adams replied that it was "contained in four short words, 'Be just and good.'" Jefferson replied, "The result of our fifty or sixty years of religious reading, in the four words, 'Be just and good,' is that in which all our inquiries must end; as the riddles of all priesthoods end in four more, 'ubi panis, ibi deus.' What all agree in, is probably right. What no two agree in, most probably wrong."

 

[ddoyle00]

"And do you people honestly believe in purposeless evolution? I'm not saying evolution doesn't exist because it does, clear as day. But WHY does it happen? What guides it? Nature? What initiated nature?"

-In my opinion, you are attributing human characteristics to something that is as far from human as you can get. People, because of their higher cognizant abilities, generally try to find meaning in their surroundings; wether it be their life, their kids, their job, school, anything. Having a rational or irrational explanation for everything gives order to what looks like disorder and thus gives them peace of mind.
Severe alcoholics will "give up" control of their lives to a higher power so they can find peace of mind. Wether or not that higher power exists isn't important. Its important that they ease their mind and find reason for something and after that is found, they have peace.
Early religion began in caves as a way to find reasons for the wind, rain, seasons and such. After they developed reasons for the natural occurrences, they lead more structured and organized lives.
So I am saying people will seek out ways to find order in their lives and if this religion for some, then so be it. If it science, fine. Personally, it doesn't bother me thinking that I only have my life to live on Earth.
In my opinion, all the words you used "life, evolution, nature" are just that. words created by people in order to help create order, thus bringing peace of mind. The only purpose of life is to live. To be born and propagate and die. Depressing for some, but whatever brings you peace of mind.

 

[Cloud9]

STOP ALREADY!

I plainly stated both the evidence and the basis of the moral code in other posts. If this bothers you that much, go seek the answers to your questions for they are there.

Really? I proved that God doesn't exist in other posts, you can find the answers there.

Um, the one who created the universe?

You mean the one to whom you do not ascribe any characteristics. Can't argue with the unknown... you win.:roll:

I DID answer those. A creator of our universe who is not unique among among an entire race of supernatural beings would be deceptive, contadicting the triumph of honest in our universe.

So what? The question is how would you know the difference?
And the answer is you wouldn't know the difference. You'd get on your knees and pray at the presence of a dishonest 4D being that's a billion years more advanced with God-like powers because you have no reasonable means by which to ascertain authenticity.

NOW: LEAVE ME ALONE. Please.

It will be my pleasure. Request granted.

 

[ddoyle00]

Instead of pointing out the fallacies of the bible, why dont we continue with the topic of the debate? We all know that the bible is ripe with double-standards and inconsistencies.
The guy wanted to know how an athiest functions in regards to the world, both emotionally and physically. He didnt ask for another boring debate on the existance of god.
Christ, every time it turns into an arguement over the existence of a god.

 

[mikeey]

hiker U are spot on m8 well done.

kind regards
mikeey

 

[Befuddled_Stoner]

It always turns into an argument over the existence of a god because that is the difference between our perspectives. Theists who base their worldview on the tenets of Christianity almost invariably believe that faith in god is the ultimate source of all morals, purpose in life, and basic respect and appreciation for life. When they ask how atheists can function emotionally and physically without their god, this ethnocentricity comes across like a supercilious disregard for some sort of ignorant savages. “You mean you heathens try to live moral lives without the almighty, super-duper J.C as your savior?!?!?! How quaint!” It’s hard to not reciprocate to this perceived insult by pointing out the myriad logical fallacies of their assumptions.

Addressing how atheists can function…..we do it just like everyone else. We love our families, care about our pets, desire a decent job, and want to leave our children something better than what we received…..exactly like those who believe in a god. During times of stress or hardship we rely on our personal resilience and social support from family and friends; absolutely no different from non-atheists. The only differences I see are that theists have more optimism about death and a codex of contradictory parables to justify their otherwise insensible convictions.

 

[Kenneth T. Cornelius]

To those who do not believe in God and an afterlife, I propose this question: what difference would it make if someone were to lead a long, healthy, honorable life or if they went on a murderous rampage (Columbine for example) and then committed suicide? Is death not all the same in the end? Why exist in the first place?

And do you people honestly believe in purposless evolution? I'm not saying evolution doesn't exist because it does, clear as day. But WHY does it happen? What guides it? Nature? What initiated nature?

If my life without God is purposeless, what is there about believing in a god that makes life purposeful? I will have to admit that earning a slot in heaven rather than hell has something to be said for it, assuming that either exist, of course. However, the idea of an eternity of existence anywhere appalls me.

 

[paulmarkj]

To those who do not believe in God and an afterlife, I propose this question: what difference would it make if someone were to lead a long, healthy, honorable life or if they went on a murderous rampage (Columbine for example) and then committed suicide? Is death not all the same in the end? Why exist in the first place?

And do you people honestly believe in purposless evolution? I'm not saying evolution doesn't exist because it does, clear as day. But WHY does it happen? What guides it? Nature? What initiated nature?

I do believe that evolution is purposeless - there is no reason behindi it - no guiding hand. What happened to create the first DNA, the first cells just happened.

As for the murderous rampage: life is not fair. We try to make it fair, but we don't often suceed.

Why does evolution happen? Survival of the fittest from the basic shemicals to DNA and cells and other life forms. This shouldn't become a debate for evolution, there are other threads that cover that. But the fact is I don't see why there has to be a purpose in life.

Is death the same in the end: yes. But it cuts both ways - the reward of a terrible sinner is the same as for a good person. But the reward for a poor, unhappy man is the same as for a king.

 

[HU-210]

Hmm.. A certain arrogance would be required of me to answer such a question, I think. To establish some kind of universal truth where the very purpose of life is unraveled and I explain how and why you should live your life according to my rules seems a bit old-fashioned. 1400 years ago, sure, but now?

Besides, the concept of purposeless life is wonderful! You don't have to worry about some kind of absolute life you have to live by. You can be who you want to be, and not something you may be unhappy with. Perhaps, were he still alive, God wanted me to be a follower of christian though, now I can choose whether or not I want to be that, without some kind of punishment or reward. I am baptised in neutrality, in freedom, in choice. What more could man desire?

Mr U

 

[steen]

Yes, but from where did this insanely complex genetic code originate? Randomly? That's a mindless notion.

Well, now you are talking about abiogenesis, not Evolution.

 

[steen]

I buy the Big Bang Theory

Actually, it is a Scientific Model, not a Scientific theory. It has not had enough data to establish itself as a Scientific theory yet.

While we certainly aren't set apart from animals in our physical bodies, like you said: the superior intelligence of our minds is what makes us unique. That intelligence is what allows us to probe into the concept of infinity.

Each species has aspects that makes it unique.

 

[steen]

You're half right. There is no rational explanation against God. The evidence for God, however, is overwhelming.

That is false. While we have Faith in God, we do not have EVIDENCE for God.

The only evidence that suggest there is no God stems from circular reasoning.

And so is it for the proposed evidence "for" God as well.

All the athiests I've encountered subconsciously shout "Oh my God!" on a daily basis.

I find it impressive that you can hear the subconscious of antheists. Are you psychic? Or is this some delusion, some form of hallucination?

But I have one more thing to say: there is no risk in believing in God even if he doesn't actually exist but it's dangerous to disbelieve lest he actually does exist.

Ah, Pascal's Wager. But what if there is a Deity different than God? Then believing in God instead DOES carry a risk. Pascal's Wager is bogus and primitive. It is stupid.




I do enjoy my life, very much so and I wouldn't trade it for any other. :monkey[/QUOTE]

 

[steen]

Take a look around you, it should be quite obvious. The complexity of the universe and life (particularly human life), is far too grand to be evolved from random processes.

And how do you know? Because you can't believe it? That is not evidence of anything but your own limitations.

(not discrediting evolution, just saying there's an intelligent design behind the process.)

What is your evidence?

The human race is here for a purpose

What is your evidence?

and to deny the existence of a creator is a foolish, baseless argument.

Again, a baseless, "because I say so" unsubstantiated postulation.

What else do you need? An eye in the sky?

Well, if you claim evidence, you MUST be able to provide it. Otherwise, your claim was false and you were deliberately misleading.

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/image/astro/hst_hourglass_nebula.jpg
There ya go. What will it take to make you realize?? God ripping the sky open like a curtain and stepping out in physical form? Honestly, you people need to wake up.

How was there any evidence in that?

 

[steen]

Ah, the input of a stoner. ....

McCoy, it looks like you are trying to say that if somebody accepts evolution, thenh they are Atheists? That of course would be a flat-out lie. As I would hate to see you as a flat-out liar, I am asking yuo to please clarify that this indeed is NOT your view.

Thanks.

 

[The Real McCoy]

I'm done with this thread. I am by no means calling surrender as I could easily defend my positions against your criticisms but I lack the time and patience.

And just to clarify, I believe in God and evolution.

 

[steen]

I'm done with this thread. I am by no means calling surrender as I could easily defend my positions against your criticisms but I lack the time and patience.

Whatever.

And just to clarify, I believe in God and evolution.

So do I. So what? What does that have to do with accuracy and factuality of Science?

 

[The Real McCoy]

So do I. So what? What does that have to do with accuracy and factuality of Science?

DUDE, YOU ASKED ME TO CLARIFY.

McCoy, it looks like you are trying to say that if somebody accepts evolution, thenh they are Atheists? That of course would be a flat-out lie. As I would hate to see you as a flat-out liar, I am asking yuo to please clarify that this indeed is NOT your view.

 

[George_Washington]

To me, atheists are hard to understand. I just don't understand how somebody could think this Universe is so screwed up as to not provide an afterlife for us all. I just don't understand how people can not have faith that something good will happen to them after they die. The idea of us simply being born, living, and then dying and being dead for all eternity seems just so illogical and irrational to me. But than again, I'm sure atheists have reasons for thinking the way they do and I have tolerance for their beliefs...no matter how irrational I think they are.

 

[OdgenTugbyGlub]

To me, atheists are hard to understand. I just don't understand how somebody could think this Universe is so screwed up as to not provide an afterlife for us all. I just don't understand how people can not have faith that something good will happen to them after they die. The idea of us simply being born, living, and then dying and being dead for all eternity seems just so illogical and irrational to me. But than again, I'm sure atheists have reasons for thinking the way they do and I have tolerance for their beliefs...no matter how irrational I think they are.

Well what happens to all the other forms of life after they die? Do they have snail heaven, squirrel heaven, cheetah heaven etc...? What makes us so different from the rest of the beasts? The arguement for the human afterlife rests souly (hehehe, sorry bad pun. Really bad infact....) on the fact that something "created" us, and the only proof of this we have are the various religious documents and dogmas. Its not so hard to believe there is no afterlife, but its still harder for most than belief in an afterlife and people tend to take the easy way out.

 

[George_Washington]

Well what happens to all the other forms of life after they die? Do they have snail heaven, squirrel heaven, cheetah heaven etc...? What makes us so different from the rest of the beasts? The arguement for the human afterlife rests souly (hehehe, sorry bad pun. Really bad infact....) on the fact that something "created" us, and the only proof of this we have are the various religious documents and dogmas. Its not so hard to believe there is no afterlife, but its still harder for most than belief in an afterlife and people tend to take the easy way out.

Actually I don't believe that the idea of an afterlife rests solely on the fact that a God must exist. Why don't atheists ever consider the possiblity that someday humans might become so technologically advanced as to bring people back from the dead? It might just be possible, who knows. I don't personally believe this will happen but then again, I still think about it. I just don't know why more atheists don't think more about the possiblity of an afterlife in all its varied forms.

 

[HU-210]

Perhaps to atheists life is much more important than the afterlife. I for one do not seek to live infinitely. I seek pleasure and beauty, and as all things of beauty, it must have its ending. In fact, living forever would mean being repetitive to no ending. It would be the death of creation, and the death of my soul. I pray no such thing happens.

I'm done with this thread. I am by no means calling surrender as I could easily defend my positions against your criticisms but I lack the time and patience.

How peculiar.

Mr U

 

[George_Washington]

Perhaps to atheists life is much more important than the afterlife. I for one do not seek to live infinitely. I seek pleasure and beauty, and as all things of beauty, it must have its ending. In fact, living forever would mean being repetitive to no ending. It would be the death of creation, and the death of my soul. I pray no such thing happens.



How peculiar.

Mr U

I guess I wouldn't want to be here on Earth forever...but I certainly would want to be some place. What I mean is, I would like to still be conscious in some way or another.

After I die, I actually wouldn't mind going to some really futuristic, high tech place like Star Wars or Star Trek...lol

 

[HU-210]

Socrates said, in a famous quotation, "I know only that I know nothing". My libertarian thought is based upon the same concept. I do not know for sure anything, and I do not wish for others to live by such a standard. From that concept of freedom, I think creatively. Time has little to do with such expression. In fact, without death, without end there would be no motivation to do anything. Because we have so little time here on Earth, we are motivated to express ourselves.

Star Trek? Such times know the same and different problems. In a time with little conflict, people lack the ability to relativate, and automatically perceive the lack of functioning of their hyperponic garden as the end of the world.

Mr U