A Path to Republican Victory in the Shutdown?

[Jack Hays]

Enough already. I'm done talking with you, and other polemicists. If you can't have a conversation without name calling and immature drama, then there's no point in discussing it further.

I find that HoJ has a good home on my ignore list.eace

 

[aberrant85]

The author outlines a bold strategy that surprisingly shows how Republicans could turn the tables on the Democrats.

1. The Seinfeld shutdown
   
   
   Washington Post ‎- 21 hours ago
   The GOP should transform its impasse over nothing into a battle over spending.

Terrible idea. Nobody is gonna care that the GOP's demands are "more reasonable." The point is they don't deserve to make demands simply to reopen the government. As long as they have conditions, they will never have the high ground.

 

[Jack Hays]

Terrible idea. Nobody is gonna care that the GOP's demands are "more reasonable." The point is they don't deserve to make demands simply to reopen the government. As long as they have conditions, they will never have the high ground.

We shall see.eace

 

[Born Free]

Because he actually thought the GOP was rational and would have sat down and made a rational budget rather than driving the government over the cliff. Boy was he mistaken.

I always love your post, now you say "because he actually thought the GOP was rational and would have sat down and made a rational budget." Huh, when was the last time Obama submitted a budget that even the Dem's approved, and when was the last time Obama had a budget, period. Then you say the GOP is going to drive the government over the cliff. Huh again, who is borrowing a trillion a year, yes it's Obama and it's he that is driving the government over the cliff. Yes, you're Progressive love for Obama blinds the obvious.

 

[Karl]

Those "tea party freaks" were voted in by the People. What's happening in congress is just a reflection of what's happening to the general population. [...]

Indeed, and that is downright disturbing, as further evidenced by 'conservative' content on internet social media forums such as this and right wing talk radio. The general population is trending towards stupid, angry, and mean. Disturbing.

 

[cpwill]

Indeed, and that is downright disturbing, as further evidenced by 'conservative' content on internet social media forums such as this and right wing talk radio. The general population is trending towards stupid, angry, and mean. Disturbing.

Is that what Liberals mean when they talk about inevitable demographic shifts dooming the GOP?

Given that the Tea Party membership is better educated, non-violent, and leaves the parks where they protest cleaner than they found them, I could see that argument. Especially given the contrasts to the protests of the other side of the aisle.

 

[obvious Child]

That's not a bad idea.

That's assuming the average American is a complete moron. This plan only works if voters are so incredibly stupid and shortsighted that they won't realize what the GOP is up to and how piece meal funding the government in such small amounts sets a terrible precedent.

The GOP should take a huge amount of damage on this shutdown purely because what they're setting as precedent is absolutely horrible for the country. If every minority party in the future tries essentially to extort the majority by holding the budget or debt ceiling hostage, the country is certifiably doomed.

Imagine if Pelosi in 2005 tried to shutdown the government or hold the debt ceiling hostage to get Bush to agree to repeal the tax cuts and/or leave Iraq.
Imagine if the Republicans in WWII tried to hold the budget hostage to get FDR to pull out of WWII.
Imagine if any minority party wants to change anything it cannot do normally and does so by forcing the majority to agree or default.

The GOP has turned into bunch of tantrum prone babies who pervert the very nature of what the founders wanted.

 

[obvious Child]

Those "tea party freaks" were voted in by the People. What's happening in congress is just a reflection of what's happening to the general population.

True, but they make up a tiny minority of the GOP House Majority. The House is basically being run on the desires of about 40 House members. Which is never how the Founders intended the House to run.

I agree that the shutdown is the GOP's fault, but it's not like the Democrats are doing such a bang up job. Obama has done next to nothing to remedy all the crap that Bush put into place, and has even furthered some of those policies.

Obama is Bush III? Shocker. Pity I've been saying that since 2010.

It's time to turn over congressional redistricting to the robots. Make every single district competitive.

 

[CycloneWanderer]

piece meal funding the government in such small amounts sets a terrible precedent.

Strikingly enough, the same exact phrase can be applied to passing a continuing resolution quarterly instead of passing a budget yearly. Were you saying the same thing when Democrats had control of both houses of congress and the presidency yet opted to deal in continuing resolutions instead of budgets?

 

[Tettsuo]

The Republocrats are one party at this point. The government shutdown is a nice distraction from reality that lets the partisan demagogues continue to delude themselves into thinking the problem is "over there" somewhere, but our polity is rotting an all this infighting is just a symptom. There used to be a time where our congress would debate intensively and fiercely but still respect one another. Now there is only hatred and demagoguery.

You know what, just forget it. There's no point in pointing out the futility of partisans anymore. They have taken over now. They are legion.

Lord I'm tired of the false equivalency being tossed around everywhere I look.

The Republicans have people in their ranks that straight up deny science (evolution, climate change, etc.).
The Republicans have been recorded claiming to want a shutdown.

The Republicans have literally said they wanted to obstruct and break Obama instead of work with him.

The list goes on and on have one-sided the calls from the Republicans do damage to the country. How is this someone both parties that are at fault?

 

[Jack Hays]

Lord I'm tired of the false equivalency being tossed around everywhere I look.

The Republicans have people in their ranks that straight up deny science (evolution, climate change, etc.).
The Republicans have been recorded claiming to want a shutdown.
The Republicans have literally said they wanted to obstruct and break Obama instead of work with him.

The list goes on and on have one-sided the calls from the Republicans do damage to the country. How is this someone both parties that are at fault?

DNC spin.:spin::spin:

 

[cpwill]

That's assuming the average American is a complete moron. This plan only works if voters are so incredibly stupid and shortsighted that they won't realize what the GOP is up to and how piece meal funding the government in such small amounts sets a terrible precedent. ...

:yawn: imediate deviation into rant means the rest of the post will be hyperbolic rhetoric rather than actual consideration of the proposal.

The GOP should take a huge amount of damage on this shutdown purely because what they're setting as precedent is absolutely horrible for the country. If every minority party in the future tries essentially to extort the majority by holding the budget or debt ceiling hostage, the country is certifiably doomed.

Imagine if Pelosi in 2005 tried to shutdown the government or hold the debt ceiling hostage to get Bush to agree to repeal the tax cuts and/or leave Iraq.
Imagine if the Republicans in WWII tried to hold the budget hostage to get FDR to pull out of WWII.
Imagine if any minority party wants to change anything it cannot do normally and does so by forcing the majority to agree or default.

The GOP has turned into bunch of tantrum prone babies who pervert the very nature of what the founders wanted.

yup. called it. PeteEU could have written this.

 

[head of joaquin]

Random thought that just came to me....Ever wonder if some of those gazelles that they feed to lions and tigers might have been tranquillized beforehand... shot full of what...just a sleep inducer or... maybe is it a hallucinogenic, you think?

Now...

First, define rich.

With Obama having us in wars, escalating the ones that shouldn't be expanded, getting out of ones where we should have stayed, threatening more wars and pushing us into a sequester to cut the military even more, that would be silly if not suicidal... but being a make love not war lib, I can see where YOU might be coming from, but the American people? We like feeling safe, we like deterring war instead of letting the boob get us into more...We cannot afford to cut any more...even a boob like boobama understands that.

And get over Citizens United. It was the only sensible decision the court could make. If you want to complain about court decisions, go after Kelo or the outrageous tinkering the court did to allow this monstrosity of a stinker, Obamacare, to get through and go against the Constitution.

Never considered impeachment of a Chief Justice [ along with a few other nimrods on the top bench ] of the SC before, now I have.

Yep, these are random all right.

The Democrats should sit down and negotiate, starting with a demand for a huge tax increase on the rich, and cutting the military to bone, and overturning Citizens United, even if that means a constitutional amendment. Short of that no deal.

See, negotiations are FUN!

By the way, I love the "define rich" meme. It's such perfect teabaggery.

 

[head of joaquin]

I always love your post, now you say "because he actually thought the GOP was rational and would have sat down and made a rational budget." Huh, when was the last time Obama submitted a budget that even the Dem's approved, and when was the last time Obama had a budget, period. Then you say the GOP is going to drive the government over the cliff. Huh again, who is borrowing a trillion a year, yes it's Obama and it's he that is driving the government over the cliff. Yes, you're Progressive love for Obama blinds the obvious.

Hey kids, deflection and a nonsequitur with late-stage Obamaphobia thrown in. Par for the course.

 

[Born Free]

Hey kids, deflection and a nonsequitur with late-stage Obamaphobia thrown in. Par for the course.

Yeah I know skirt the truth with your love of Obama. Blind loyalty to the anointed one.

 

[Born Free]

Yep, these are random all right.

The Democrats should sit down and negotiate, starting with a demand for a huge tax increase on the rich, and cutting the military to bone, and overturning Citizens United, even if that means a constitutional amendment. Short of that no deal.

See, negotiations are FUN!

By the way, I love the "define rich" meme. It's such perfect teabaggery.

Does owning a business mean anything to you, does managing a business mean anything to you, does "foreman" mean anything to you, how about lead man, does taking risk with your own money mean anything to you. I didn't think so. Ever wonder how the rich got rich? The answer is by doing all those things that mean nothing to you.

 

[head of joaquin]

Does owning a business mean anything to you, does managing a business mean anything to you, does "foreman" mean anything to you, how about lead man, does taking risk with your own money mean anything to you. I didn't think so. Ever wonder how the rich got rich? The answer is by doing all those things that mean nothing to you.

Hey kids a bunch of random personal attacks and mind reading.

Like clockwork.

But the funny thing is, I'm agreeing with you! The Democrats should negotiate with the GOP. And negotiations involve two sides. The Democrats should demand tax hikes on the rich, cutting military spending, repealing Citizens United, banning guns.

Now, let's negotiate!

 

[Born Free]

Hey kids a bunch of random personal attacks and mind reading.

Like clockwork.

But the funny thing is, I'm agreeing with you! The Democrats should negotiate with the GOP. And negotiations involve two sides. The Democrats should demand tax hikes on the rich, cutting military spending, repealing Citizens United, banning guns.

Now, let's negotiate!

I said before, the Democrats are not that stupid to even try to pass anything you propose, they don't have the votes in their own party. Nice Try though.

 

[head of joaquin]

I said before, the Democrats are not that stupid to even try to pass anything you propose, they don't have the votes in their own party. Nice Try though.

So you're saying the GOP is stupid enough to try to repeal Obamacare? Yep they tried and failed, and failed and failed.

I think you're making my point.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Yep, these are random all right.

The Democrats should sit down and negotiate, starting with a demand for a huge tax increase on the rich, and cutting the military to bone, and overturning Citizens United, even if that means a constitutional amendment. Short of that no deal.

See, negotiations are FUN!

By the way, I love the "define rich" meme. It's such perfect teabaggery.

Lets Go For It!!!

Already agreed to it at least a post ago----we are all more than willing...lets have this fight and we will kick the manure out of your big Donkeys up one side and down the other. You see, the American people are now on to your boy, see what he really is all about...and they are not liking what they are seeing...

Only socialists/progressives want what all this silliness you call for, lay all that on the table like you are now for the American people to openly see the Marxism expressed...and they will carve you up like turkeys, which is apropos of the Democrat party, on very hungry Thanksgiving Day...

And we would certainly, as a country, then have something to truly be thankful for. So...Feeling lucky...?? Do it, double dare ya...make our day...

OMG, too funny. You want to tax the rich but you don't even know what you, or what the wizard behind the curtain who tells you what to think, would consider rich...what an absurdly spot on joke of a party.

Oh, and you are aware that the real "teabagging", the "I don't even want to think about" it kind to which you are actually trying to allude, is overwhelmingly, almost exclusively being performed on your side of the aisle, right?

Gross.

Time to grow up, by the way. You see, we see you crawling, joaquin...but you better start running if you ever want to catch up...

 

[head of joaquin]

Lets Go For It!!!

Already agreed to it at least a post ago----we are all more than willing...lets have this fight and we will kick the manure out of your big Donkeys up one side and down the other. You see, the American people are now on to your boy, see what he really is all about...and they are not liking what they are seeing...

Only socialists/progressives want what all this silliness you call for, lay all that on the table like you are now for the American people to openly see the Marxism expressed...and they will carve you up like turkeys, which is apropos of the Democrat party, on very hungry Thanksgiving Day...

And we would certainly, as a country, then have something to truly be thankful for. So...Feeling lucky...?? Do it, double dare ya...make our day...

OMG, too funny. You want to tax the rich but you don't even know what you, or what the wizard behind the curtain who tells you what to think, would consider rich...what an absurdly spot on joke of a party.

Oh, and you are aware that the real "teabagging", the "I don't even want to think about" it kind to which you are actually trying to allude, is overwhelmingly, almost exclusively being performed on your side of the aisle, right?

Gross.

Time to grow up, by the way. You see, we see you crawling, joaquin...but you better start running if you ever want to catch up...

No need to discuss the merits. You won't win on that. It's a negotiation, merits got nothing to do with it.'

So be careful what you ask for.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

No need to discuss the merits. You won't win on that. It's a negotiation, merits got nothing to do with it.'

So be careful what you ask for.

U2 tiger...ha ha ha.

If this were something requiring a strategy one might use in, say, Pokemon or tiddlywinks, well, I just might hazard taking your advice, but seeing as this requires deeper and real adult understanding/reasoning, I think it prudent to defer...

 

[obvious Child]

Strikingly enough, the same exact phrase can be applied to passing a continuing resolution quarterly instead of passing a budget yearly.

True, but at least the Senate appropriations are done in sizable blocks that last for many months. What the GOP is proposing is tiny little spending bills that go for a few weeks at most.

Were you saying the same thing when Democrats had control of both houses of congress and the presidency yet opted to deal in continuing resolutions instead of budgets?

Read above.

 

[obvious Child]

:yawn: imediate deviation into rant means the rest of the post will be hyperbolic rhetoric rather than actual consideration of the proposal.

Did you read the proposal? It only "works" if the average American is a complete idiot.

yup. called it. PeteEU could have written this.

Tell me, why do you think it's good for the minority party to set a precedent that they'll risk a default or a shutdown to get what they want outside of the standard legislative process?

Do you think Pelosi would have been justified to shutdown the government to repeal the Bush tax cuts?

Watch this:

immediate deviation into rant means the rest of the post will be hyperbolic rhetoric rather than actual consideration of the proposal

I didn't even need to change a single word there to turn it against you.

 

[jmotivator]

Terrible idea. Nobody is gonna care that the GOP's demands are "more reasonable." The point is they don't deserve to make demands simply to reopen the government. As long as they have conditions, they will never have the high ground.

Yeah, HOW DARE THEY TALK ABOUT BUDGETS DURING BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS!!!