• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

a new U.S. wealth tax - only on the ultra-wealthy?

S

socca

DP Veteran
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
41
Reaction score
18
Location
Sarasota, FL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Some Democratic presidential candidates have floated the idea of a new U.S. wealth tax (one version: 2% on net worth > $50M; 3% on net worth > $1B). There are a couple of ways that this tax could be implemented in a future version of everyone's favorite document: IRS Form 1040.

Version 1: each year, every taxpayer is required to report their Section XXX (XXX = a new section of the tax code) net worth.

Problem: for many taxpayers (some of quite modest means), calculating their Section XXX net worth could be a huge burden. Sorry folks - the time and cost required to calculate Section XXX net worth each year could constitute a nasty "tax" on a broad swath of Americans, not just the ultra-weathy. :thumbdown

Problem: the inquisitive bean-counters in the IRS might be delighted at the prospect of requiring every American to cough up a net worth estimate each year, but in my opinion this would be a revolting expansion of government power / intrusion into American life.

Version 2: each year, every taxpayer is required to check a box indicating whether they have Section XXX net worth > $50M. If so, then they report their Section XXX net worth so the corresponding wealth tax can be calculated. Taxpayers who don't check the box don't have to report their Section XXX net worth.

Problem: with this approach, super-wealthy taxpayers could simply not check the box and "dare" the IRS to come after them. Only during an audit would the taxpayer be required to justify their Section XXX net worth claim.
Summary: a warning to Democrats - proposing a wealth tax is a deal-killer for this independent (no party affiliation) voter. :2wave:
 
Last edited:
Liberalism is a constant search for trying to pretend their desires for the wealth of others is based on something other than greed and envy
 
If you have 50 million in assets-you might not have all that much income to pay that idiocy. Its nothing more than outright theft.
 

The problem with all of the above is that the law provides congress the ability to tax income…..not personal wealth or perceived personal value.
 
Last edited:
A wealth tax is just a diversion from what it really is - a Federal property tax.

This is how the income tax was started. Only 1% and only for rich people. It grew to as high as 90% and everyone having to report their income. This would evolve to everyone having to report everything they own to the government and paying a federal property tax on it.
 
This is guaranteed to cause wealthy people to move their wealth out of the country.

Why do the Dems hate their country?
 

I don't support wealth taxes. I would be fine with transaction fees on stock transfers. Even a penny per share per trade would generate a huge amount of income and be the same end as a wealth tax. That would be a half a cent per side or you could put it one or both sides. It would also have the benefit of discouraging all the churning created by computers.
 
It's a stupid idea, and any extra revenue that is accomplished through this could just as easily be collected with higher estate and gift taxes. Everyone dies.

But for Democrats, a wealth tax sounds better, because they love to stick it to the wealthy while they're still alive.
 

I have not heard any of these from Democratic candidates. No link was offered, so we don't know who you're talking about. I firmly believe we should raise the top tier income taxes to about 60%, until the budget is balanced, and then gradually lower it, avoiding any new deficit. Republicans tax cuts are killing us. Our deficit is approaching $1 Trillion.
 
Here's the problem with a wealth tax -

Lets say that I have 10,000 acres of ranch land and 500 head of beef cattle. The land is generally valued at $1000/acre and the cattle is worth $1200 a head. That makes it easy to calculate value. I just have to pay tax on my $10.6 million in assets come April. But there's an issue. One of the other ranchers in the area had a developer come in and make him a deal he couldn't refuse. The developer paid $2500/acre for 200 acres of that ranch and is looking for additional land on which to build a golf course. Also, there were a few cases of hoof and mouth disease discovered in Europe and it's looking like a lot of the European stock will be prohibited from coming to market. Nothing is for certain yet but the value of my cattle may be set to increase. So, with these issues going on how am I supposed to value my land and cattle? If I go with the $10.6M figure and an auditor comes up with $18.4M who is right? How much do I have to pay accountants and lawyers to come up with a number and then defend it if it's contested? What happens if the state listens to an environmental group that discovered a certain subspecies of grouse that lives on my land and declared the grouse a protected species which now means that I can no longer graze cattle in their habitat?

A wealth tax sounds like a really nifty idea until you get into the logistics of actually calculating asset value.
 
What percentage of federal wealth tax are you willing to pay on your savings account, retirement account, car, truck, jewelry, home, collectibles, life insurance policy cash value and all other personal property you own thereby establishing your "wealth?" 5%? 15% 25%? If you don't pay it then the government takes your property. If you can't afford the annual federal wealth tax on your stuff, then you have too much stuff and should sell off a lot of it to pay the federal wealth tax on what you can afford to keep.

Why shouldn't everyone have to pay this new federal method of universal taxation? Why should you be exempt? You didn't make that money to buy that stuff on your own. It took the federal government. So therefore it is fair to tax everyone for their everything they own.
 
Mycroft said:
This is guaranteed to cause wealthy people to move their wealth out of the country.

Why do the Dems hate their country?
Click to expand...

Let them go, here's what they want to do anyway, take all the money and run.
 

I'm not sure what they're trying to do but here's what I'd suggest.

The tax is not on net worth, but on gross income.

I think this is what they want to do, but it is not enough. It is not a drop in the bucket.

What they should do is take twelve percent of earnings after you first ten million dollars.

Then you can balance the budget and have some money left over for health care and college.

Either that or we need too cut military and health care costs by fifty percent and the way to do that is with a federal vegan program.

Whenever you guys are ready.
 
There will be no new wealth tax or any other asset tax. The American economy is dependent upon foreign capitalization. The US is essentially a tax haven for foreign monies. Compare taxes here to those of other nations, with the relative stability, and you will begin to understand. WS will not allow disruption of foreign capital flow. WS does finance both major parties. Be thankful it is a benevolent system.

Anyone who examines the economic history of this nation will immediately understand the financing of every American industry relies on foreign investment. A wealth tax would translate as a disruption to that financing. Take a good look and learn. A wealth tax is a pipe dream.
 
TurtleDude said:
Liberalism is a constant search for trying to pretend their desires for the wealth of others is based on something other than greed and envy
Click to expand...

There's lots of ways I can go in your purse.

I can say, "I'm lazy and don't want to work, give me your money."

I can say, "I majored in political science and I will work for your money, I'll still have too get up in the morning, but at least I don't have to dig ditches."

I can say, "You all spend your money only to extract more money from the economy, so how are we going to pay?"

I can say, "The greed is in the rich."

I can say, "I want an economy where the people have money to spend and entrepreneurs can make it, where the object for those with wealth is not to put everybody else out of business."

I can say, "We should have a tax schedule that pays the bills."

I can say, "I want everyone too pay more than their fair share."

How is it people think money is theirs, when Caesar prints it?

The other pole is too much spending, but programs for the people are only a drop in the bucket and what have the Democrats ever done to us but loose and promote led poisoned liberals?

If I was running for President I would say that "You all will be paying higher taxes under me."
 

You wouldn't win
 
It is my greatest desire to have all the ultra rich folk in this country stop...recognize their evil ways, and pull all of their investments from all potential wage earning exercises. No income...nothing to be taxed.

And no one to pay for all the crippled and dependent pets social programs.
 

There's an internet poster I'm familiar with that farms 8000 acres of his own land with his own equipment. He undoubtedly has a high net worth. Probably not a lot of cash. So he would pay the tax on property he needs with money he doesn't have. Very few very rich actually have cash laying around.

A wealth tax sounds good as a campaign slogan, but as actually being a workable solution it fails.
 
So you want to see the country to collapse?
There have been people on here that complained that 44% of all people in the US do not pay FIT and not say a word about the ( in 2017 42% of all large Corps. that made over a million dollars in US profits some making Billions did NOT pay a cent in US FIT, and after the tax cut the GAO says that percent will go up yo about 65% ) large Corps. not paying any US income taxes.
First thing these large Corps. use programs that FIT pays for , so why shouldn't they pay FIT , the 44% of people who do not pay FIT do not make enough let alone millions. ( using government funded training programs for example )
It is time we had a min. FIT for Corps.
They get to deduct a lot of things and can take " Carryovers " to lower their FIT and a lot of these deductions people can't take.
The SCOTUS says they are entities just like people so if that is so why do they get to take all these deductions and people can't?
It is time we had a balanced budget amendment with some teeth in it so that we can NOT spend more then we take in ( have it where the ONLY time we could run a debt would be in case of a war like WWII or another great recession / depression ) and have a national sales tax of say 1 % that would be used ONLY to pay off the debt and when the debt is paid off it would be suspended and could ONLY be put back on if we did go to war or had a recession / depression that ran up the debt again.
and the sales tax could not be deducted from your FIT and everybody should pay it even large Corps.
everybody got a benefit from running up the debt so everybody should help pay it off
Just a thought
have a nice day
 

Exactly!

Being wealthy doesn't mean that you have tons of cash sitting in a safe somewhere. It means that you own stuff and, as a rule, it means you own stuff that generates more wealth. In fact, it generally means that you own stuff that OTHER PEOPLE also make money with. For example, if I own a really ostentatious vacation resort and hotel it might be worth a lot of money to me (if I choose to sell it) but it also provides jobs for a few hundred people directly and even more people indirectly as I purchase food to serve my patrons, hire contractors to do repairs, as I pay taxes which support public services, etc. If the pinko, commie, America hating liberals want to take it and divvy it up just so I have less wealth them more power to them. Let them slit their own throats.
 

I'm not fine with stock transaction fees. I don't worry about stock churning.

I'm fine with the government doing what I have to do. Live within my means. If I want a candy bar and don't have a dollar, I don't buy the candy bar.

Democrat politicians think the opposite. AOC wants to spend a hundred trillion on something called the New Green Deal. Her solution to paying is bite the bullet. Presumably my bullet since she doesn't own guns. The candidates want to welcome more freeloaders and give them more free stuff. No mention of any way to pay.
 
Quite the opposite. I want the idiot leftists and crippled and dependent pets of this country to learn how to stop whining and bitching about the rich and start standing on their own two feet and paying their way. I want the idiot leftists to actually learn some grace and rather than spending all their life pissing themselves and moaning about how unfair life is and how the rich have caused them to be poor and stole their pennies to maybe have the courtesy to say "hey...thank you, man...for carrying my worthless ass through life". but since I am a realist and see the idiot left growing in their quest for socialism, I embrace the inevitable and recommend the rich respond accordingly...with a nice healthy "**** you, eat **** and die...and call us when you change your mind."

The question really comes down to just how much do you actually give a **** about people. I say a lot of harsh things. I say that because I see people daily that live their lives like generations past have lived their lives and like their children and grandchildren will live their lives...crippled...dependent...and you know what? Their quality of life tends to suuu uuuuu uuuuuuuuck. Kneeling is easy. I want people to learn how to stand. I'll HELP you stand. Hell...when it comes to social programs and the development of wellness...Im far more 'progressive' than most liberals you will ever know. BUT...if they decide they PREFER kneeling...**** it...Im a real "give the people what they want" kind of guy.
 
jimbo said:
I can help.

Elizabeth Warren's Wealth Tax: Here's What You Need to Know | The Motley Fool
Click to expand...

So many IF's in your link. Originally you stated that Democratic candidates (note the plural), and now you cite only Warren. First of all, Warren is substantially lagging in most polls. Secondly, even if Warren would get the nomination and the presidency, these taxes would have to be approved by a Congress and a Senate, which is very unlikely.

It would be much more efficient to simply raise the top-tier tax rate, and use this to balance the budget. It's familiar territory, and it is mandatory to get rid of the Trump Trillion $ deficit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…