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A new republican platform

Zyphlin said:
Congratulations. You boiled down the specifics and got to vague generalizations that are for the most part similar between republicans. congratulations. I'm sure I could do the same with Obama and the socialist parties platform if I wanted to. What's your point?

I'm not proposing suddenly that black becomes white, night becomes day, and sound becomings silence for the republican party. You seem to want that to define it as anything different. No surprise coming from one of the sights biggest liberals, but its not practical nor realistic
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My point is that what you are proposing as a "new" Republican platform doesn't sound a heck of a lot different than the "old" Repulbican platform, save perhaps not including the social right planks, which as we have seen many GOP members will demand.
 
Iriemon said:
Once again hound, you devolve into infantile semantics to try to make a lame point about totally irrelevant things. My post addressed the OP, the proposed Republican platform and identified why I thought it was similar to McCain's. None of which had anything to do with immigration, abortion, or anything else in your post, because they were not in the platform proposed in the OP.
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McCain's platform, Irie, did not include abortion, or immigration? and neither of these things should be part of a new republican platform?

You asked a question, I answered it directly, now you are whining as usual.


Next smarmy comment?
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Any more ad homs? You are so predictable. :roll:
 
Iriemon said:
My point is that what you are proposing as a "new" Republican platform doesn't sound a heck of a lot different than the "old" Repulbican platform, save perhaps not including the social right planks, which as we have seen many GOP members will demand.
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Yes, I'm sure to a staunch liberal like yourself it looks like the same old things. This is evident by the fact of how you essentially just melded it down to traditional liberal talking points of republican ideals while ignoring specifics that counter those typical talking points. I'm sure it doesn't seem like much of a change to you and ... hate to break it too you ... i really don't care if it seems like much of a change to die hard liberals like yourself. Much like I would never imagine died in the wool conservatives to jump ship to the democratic platform, I would never expect people like you to be jumping onto the republican one.

One simply has to read what I wrote, and read your over simplified, poorly put together generalization and see that all you did was take the typical liberal mentality and view point of conservatism and immedietely simply tried to shove every inch of mine into those generalizations with no further thought.

Thanks for your input, its about as I expected from some of the more token partisan liberals of the forum and at least lets me know that hey, it is still conservatism I put in there. I know you all hate it, but you know...conservatism isn't going to really "change" to become something other than, well, conservatism.
 
Zyphlin said:
Yes, I'm sure to a staunch liberal like yourself it looks like the same old things. This is evident by the fact of how you essentially just melded it down to traditional liberal talking points of republican ideals while ignoring specifics that counter those typical talking points. I'm sure it doesn't seem like much of a change to you and ... hate to break it too you ... i really don't care if it seems like much of a change to die hard liberals like yourself. Much like I would never imagine died in the wool conservatives to jump ship to the democratic platform, I would never expect people like you to be jumping onto the republican one.

One simply has to read what I wrote, and read your over simplified, poorly put together generalization and see that all you did was take the typical liberal mentality and view point of conservatism and immedietely simply tried to shove every inch of mine into those generalizations with no further thought.

Thanks for your input, its about as I expected from some of the more token partisan liberals of the forum and at least lets me know that hey, it is still conservatism I put in there. I know you all hate it, but you know...conservatism isn't going to really "change" to become something other than, well, conservatism.
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Other than your frustrated ad-homs, do you have any point to make about how your proposed platform significantly differs from McCains?

Or if your point is that your "new" platform is essentially the same as McCain's because it is conservativism that's fine too. That was my point.
 
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Reverend_Hellh0und said:
McCain's platform, Irie, did not include abortion, or immigration? and neither of these things should be part of a new republican platform?

You asked a question, I answered it directly, now you are whining as usual.

Any more ad homs? You are so predictable. :roll:
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Jeez, did you even read the thread? The topic is the platform set out in the OP.

If you want to explain how the platform in the OP differed from McCain on "McCain feingold, McCain kennedy, Mccain insert liberal, immigration, abortion (yeah I believe his change), socialist nationalize mortgages, opposed many right proposals. etc etc etc." please do.
 
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Iriemon said:
Jeez, did you even read the thread? The topic is the platform set out in the OP.
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Yup, and I expanded on it to address your general question. If you wanted it to be specific so you can pretend you have something, don't ask a general question there Iriemon...
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Yup, and I expanded on it to address your general question. If you wanted it to be specific so you can pretend you have something, don't ask a general question there Iriemon...
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Sure you did, hound, sure you did.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Cato is more Libertarian, I am a subscriber.

heritage is not for the bush drunken sailor mentality.
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no, it just doesn't have to deal with the actual application of its policies- it only writes white papers instead of actually governing.

so they write a paper claiming they can reduce government, then they write a paper claiming they can free the entire world and give Israel a new bomb every day...and then rest comfortably in the knowledge that as academics they don't ever have to reconciliate those two views.

they also have exactly the same ideology regarding the government as a tool for social morality.
 
new coup for you said:
no, it just doesn't have to deal with the actual application of its policies- it only writes white papers instead of actually governing.

so they write a paper claiming they can reduce government, then they write a paper claiming they can free the entire world and give Israel a new bomb every day...and then rest comfortably in the knowledge that as academics they don't ever have to reconciliate those two views.

they also have exactly the same ideology regarding the government as a tool for social morality.
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Link to these papers? I am open to being wrong on this if you can prove it to me.
 
search through their policy platforms, I guarantee you can find:

Why Supporting Israel is Super Awesome

Why We Need to Beat Up Iran

Why Gay Marriage Will Destroy the World
 
new coup for you said:
search through their policy platforms, I guarantee you can find:

Why Supporting Israel is Super Awesome
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Conservatives before the neocon movement did not support isreal????

Why We Need to Beat Up Iran
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Given thier saber rattling and thier nuke progress, we may have to. WWRD?


Why Gay Marriage Will Destroy the World
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Conservatives usully support the whole family values thing. This is not really a neocon thing.

I disagree with it, that's the Libertarian in me as I think marriage is none of the governments concern.
 
Education and welfare are not constitutional govt functions.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Conservatives before the neocon movement did not support isreal????



Given thier saber rattling and thier nuke progress, we may have to. WWRD?






Conservatives usully support the whole family values thing. This is not really a neocon thing.

I disagree with it, that's the Libertarian in me as I think marriage is none of the governments concern.
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Well..see...you're nearly a neo-con so you like them.
 
new coup for you said:
Well..see...you're nearly a neo-con so you like them.
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:lol: the big difference between neocons and conservatives are the whole drunken spending welfare crap they put in practice.


I don't think we need to spread democracy around the world. But do need to bitch slap iran if it threatens us.


I believe strongly in family values, I believe more strongly in govenment out of our lives in many ways.

What esle neoconish you want me to debunk about me?
 
Do you think outspending the entire world on our military budget and being able to invade multiple countries at once is compatible with "reducing government"?
 
new coup for you said:
Do you think outspending the entire world on our military budget and being able to invade multiple countries at once is compatible with "reducing government"?
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I think we can be much more efficient in our military spending, And that includes outsourcing.


We need a strong defense did not reagan advocate this as well?
 
Reagan was the first Neo-Con. Outsourcing does not increase the military's efficiency, it allows Bush to give billions of tax payer dollars to corporations like Halliburton without allowing any transparency as to how that money is being spent. That's the most grotesque aspect of the current two wars: they've been turned into massive funnels directing tax payer dollars to contractors with Republican ties. Unbelievable amounts of money have been spent (mostly appointed through closed-door no-bid contracts) to entities that have no mechanism whatsoever for accountability. This speaks volumes about how the greed of the Bush administration has been simply beyond anything we've ever seen before and how deranged the Republican electorate has to be given that they can watch the government basically create a "welfare" infrastructure for multi-national corporations while maintaining that they want to decrease the size of government. Republicans want to take your money and give it to Halliburton. It's really as simple as that. There's no ideology, it's just greed.
 
new coup for you said:
Reagan was the first Neo-Con. Outsourcing does not increase the military's efficiency, it allows Bush to give billions of tax payer dollars to corporations like Halliburton without allowing any transparency as to how that money is being spent. That's the most grotesque aspect of the current two wars: they've been turned into massive funnels directing tax payer dollars to contractors with Republican ties. Unbelievable amounts of money have been spent (mostly appointed through closed-door no-bid contracts) to entities that have no mechanism whatsoever for accountability. This speaks volumes about how the greed of the Bush administration has been simply beyond anything we've ever seen before and how deranged the Republican electorate has to be given that they can watch the government basically create a "welfare" infrastructure for multi-national corporations while maintaining that they want to decrease the size of government. Republicans want to take your money and give it to Halliburton. It's really as simple as that. There's no ideology, it's just greed.
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:lol: blackwater saves the .mil a ton of money, they can do certain things more efficiently for example.



Define in your words what a "neo-con" is.
 
You have no idea if Blackwater saves the millitary a lot of money, because non of their spending is public.

And Blackwater is only a very small part of the problem. The problem is infrastructure created by KBR that absolutely does not work. The problem is levees that don't hold, the problem is buildings that collapse, the problem is barracks with substandard wiring, the problem is all of the these things and more- because KBR, Halliburton and other corporations have been given near immunity to actual responsibility for what they're being paid to do.

A Neo-Con is a person that uses libertarian and religious rhetoric to pursue a goal of increasing the profits of their corporate donors.
 
new coup for you said:
You have no idea if Blackwater saves the millitary a lot of money, because non of their spending is public.
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I have actually a little knowledge. I was a contractor way before contracting was cool.

Clinton used contractors. Was he a neo-con? :lol:

And Blackwater is only a very small part of the problem. The problem is infrastructure created by KBR that absolutely does not work. The problem is levees that don't hold, the problem is buildings that collapse, the problem is barracks with substandard wiring, the problem is all of the these things and more- because KBR, Halliburton and other corporations have been given near immunity to actual responsibility for what they're being paid to do.
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Was it better before? Have links showing differences? I am not saying that they should not be held accountable to contracts. I would like to see though what you claim.


A Neo-Con is a person that uses libertarian and religious rhetoric to pursue a goal of increasing the profits of their corporate donors.
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So why do I get called a neocon daily here? :lol: I have no coporate donors and I am a Libertarian who believes in strong defence and has a conservative value system.


:doh:lol:
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
I have actually a little knowledge. I was a contractor way before contracting was cool.
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That is funny, I was just thinking if I had to guess where you made money was as a defense contractor.
 
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