• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

A Nation of Peasants?

Sandokan

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
3,818
Reaction score
460
Location
Los Angels, USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
A Nation of Peasants?A Nation of Peasants? - Victor Davis Hanson - Townhall Conservative

Victor Davis Hanson

Traditional peasant societies believe in only a limited good. The more your neighbor earns, the less someone else gets. Profits are seen as a sort of theft. They must be either hidden or redistributed. Envy rather than admiration of success reigns.

In contrast, Western civilization began with a very different ancient Greek idea of an autonomous citizen, not an indentured serf or subsistence peasant. The small, independent landowner -- if left to his own talents and if his success was protected by, and from, government -- would create new sources of wealth for everyone. The resulting greater bounty for the poor soon trumped their old jealousy of the better off.
Citizens of ancient Greece and Italy soon proved more prosperous and free than either the tribal folk to the north and west, or the imperial subjects to the south and east.

The success of later Western civilization in general, and America in particular, is testament to this legacy of the freedom of the individual in the widest political and economic sense

We seem to be forgetting that lately -- though Mao Zedong's redistributive failures in China, or present-day bankrupt Greece, should warn us about what happens when government tries to enforce an equality of result rather than of opportunity.

Even after the failure of statism at the end of the Cold War, the disasters of socialism in Venezuela and Cuba, and the recent financial meltdowns in the European Union, for some reason America is returning to a peasant mentality of a limited good that redistributes wealth rather than creates it. Candidate Obama's "spread the wealth" slip to Joe the Plumber simply was upgraded to President Obama's "I do think at a certain point you've made enough money."
The rule of law is indispensable for the existence of a prosperous economy. The Obama administration has practically paralyzed the economic recovery by restraining investments. I have never seen a poor person offering a job to another poor. Most of the jobs are created by people with money wanted to make more money.

That is the main reason businesses with money are sitting on the fence, and not investing it which would provide jobs, reducing the unemployment and allowing the workers to earn income and pay taxes, accelerating the economic recovery.
 

Sandokan

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
3,818
Reaction score
460
Location
Los Angels, USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Obama administration doesn't think there are too many wealthy people; they believe that there are too many of the "wrong kind" of wealthy people. It doesn’t have anything to do with the wealthy. It’s about control, about power and the means to exercise that power. The means to exercise that power is through the control of wealth and the means of production.

The administration scold CEO’s for earning lots of money, but at the same time rub elbows with the super wealthy Hollywood crowd. Their front groups are funded by the billionaire George Soros.
 

Harshaw

Filmmaker ● Lawyer ● Patriot
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
38,750
Reaction score
13,831
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
If you run a country like it's a banana republic, eventually it will BE a banana republic.
 

Sandokan

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
3,818
Reaction score
460
Location
Los Angels, USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
If you run a country like it's a banana republic, eventually it will BE a banana republic.
People are the seat of power in the US and they are responsible for the actions of the government their taxes support. The government is answerable to the people. They should stand up and demand their rights before is too late. It is really a choice between freedom and big government. Which one they will choose? We will know the answer after the November election.
 

Sandokan

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
3,818
Reaction score
460
Location
Los Angels, USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
The main purpose to “tax the rich” and transfer the income to the “so call poor” is to transfer power from the middle class to the governing class. Low income people are just cannon fodder to consolidate power through populism until the ruling class can control all power directly.
 

Lord Tammerlain

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
18,995
Reaction score
8,112
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Such idiocy

Jobs are created when demand exists for the goods and services is believed to exist. Said jobs can be created by a lower income person starting a small bakery in their house, or a massive bakery expanding its operations. The rich or wealthy do not create jobs out of goodwill, they will only hire when they believe the potential to make money is their. When an economy is contracting due to overleveraing (ie to much freakin debt) then they will not hire people, nor will the person with the intention of starting a small bakery or catering business. They expect limited demand as people are using their income to pay down debt.


As for the idea of taxing the rich to take power from the middle class to the poor is even more idiotic

First, there is not a great number of poor people in the US, the middle class is the largest demographic in the US by a large margin, secondly the poor do not vote in great numbers. The % of poor who vote is quite a bit lower then the % of the middle class. Only an idiot would alienate the middle class in order to gain the poor vote. This would only be an effective policy should the number of poor grows drastically and the middle class shrinks drastically. This is not the case currently in the US. Politicians in the US pander to the middle class and the rich, not the poor. Pandering to the poor doesnt generate the returns the other two groups provide. From campaign contributions to actual number of votes
 

Sandokan

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
3,818
Reaction score
460
Location
Los Angels, USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Hanson statement “a newly peasant-minded America” is applicable to part of the US. The US has broadly three groups: Those who produce, the ruling class, and the dependent class. The dependent class is supported by the ruling class in return for votes at the expense of the producing class. The last two groups are peasant minded in Hanson terms. The first one can’t be, in a reasonable manner, combined with the other two to define America as a whole.
 

Sandokan

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
3,818
Reaction score
460
Location
Los Angels, USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
The key to lowering the deficit is cutting wasteful government spending and not raise taxes. Raising taxes doesn't work because it obstructs innovation and production incentives.

In the present situation people in business, investors, etc, that are "sitting on their money" instead of using it to expand or start businesses makes perfect sense. Based on the government actions they are acting on the principle of why bother to increase my worth if the government intends to lower my profit raising my taxes? There is a basic logic to this approach.
 

Sandokan

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
3,818
Reaction score
460
Location
Los Angels, USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Our political system based on individual liberty, and the economic system based on free market, together with the rule of law, have made the US the freest, riches and most powerful country in the world This country which has benefited hundreds of millions worldwide, is continually under attack by the Progressives here and abroad, whom have benefited the most from the this system.

We should thank Obama administration for opening the eyes of millions of Americans. People with different political philosophy can disagree about government services, level of taxation, and foreign military involvement, but in order to have a reasonable debate the Democratic Party has to stop being driven by leftist activists whose full-time job are street agitation and community organizing.
 

Awesome!

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
1,462
Reaction score
260
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
It amazes me how so many people state that the rich do not create jobs, when there the primary ones funding us hungry entrepreneurs. Of course you can bake cup cakes in your house and make a cupcake empire without that much capital but by and large job creation on a large scale comes from the rich investing in different start ups, or taking companies to the next level which they couldn't do on their own because they don't have the capital. It's not only the new innovation that moves forward with investment but also the many new jobs.
 

Sandokan

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
3,818
Reaction score
460
Location
Los Angels, USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
The Republican Party is now in the process of reforming itself, somewhat forcibly from the grassroots and Tea Party movement. Many Americans are now certain that until the Democratic Party desists from its misread of the Constitution, its position against free enterprise, negation of American exceptionalism, and rediscovers its roots in the principle of the Founding Fathers, they cannot be trusted in position of power in the Government.

From this experience the country is rediscovering its founding principles and a new determination to to force the Government to act and solve its problems.
 
Top Bottom