A Medical provider: To my republican friends. Screw you. To my democrat friends.. screw you too

[lurchadams]

As a medical provider I have to vent a little bit during my "break". I have family and friends in healthcare that are risking their lives and their families lives helping YOU. (democrat and republican).
And I hear all about how you "appreciate us".

Well... to my republican friends? Remember how you lambasted Obamacare.. and lambasted the expansion of Medicaid, and "government take over of healthcare". Well imagine the crisis without the millions and millions of people that got healthcare insurance under Obamacare. Sheesh.

And to my democrat friends.. who a month ago were telling me that I made too much money.. that doctors and nurses and respiratory therapists made to much.. that we were greedy? Well.. some of those "greedy" folks are working themselves to the bone..and even dying for you. While in many places they are getting cuts in pay while they work even more hours.

And to both the democrats and republicans who complained about the "cost of healthcare". Who complained that "its shouldn't cost so much when I go to the hospital especially for my finger to get sewn up in the emergency room?

Remember when I told you that you were not just paying for your finger to be sewn up.. but were also paying for those ventilators the hospital has and all the other equipment and staff they have in case you get really sick? Well you are seeing that now.

There is no free lunch here folks.

Now.. stay home.. and stay healthy..

God bless.

I don't know anyone, Democrat or Repugnant who've complained about medial professionals making too much money.

If anything, they're underpaid.

Thanks for everything you do, and be well!

 

[ataraxia]

The problem is the huge and erroneous assumption that a single payer system is is going to save money through less administration.

The insurances that are the most difficult to deal with..that cost the most for my facilities to handle... are GOVERNMENT insurances.. notably Medicaid and VA.. with Medicare coming in there (there are a couple of "Obamacare insurances) that are worse than medicare when it comes to cost to bill etc.

So when you tell me going to a government system that already costs me the most.. is going to save money? Don't believe you.

Cosmetic procedures on the free market cost several times as much as procedures of similar difficulty/risk which are medically necessary.

A veterinary ophthalmologist, who may do cataract surgery on the family dog for cash on the free market, usually gets paid twice as much as a human ophthalmologist doing the same procedure on Grandma. And grandma’s surgery carries more liability.

It seems if the free market worked so well, you would be seeing the reverse.

 

[jaeger19]

Who are you including in the "providers" basket? If you're a hospital administrator then it's certainly possible you're aware of certain criticism that I'm not. It's just that I've never condemned hospital employees, and haven't heard anyone else on my side of the political aisle condemn them either.

Doctors, therapists PAs, Nurse practitioners, nurses, x ray techs.. etc.

The people that is the major reason that healthcare costs are greater than in other countries where they pay much less.. or have fewer providers etc.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Literally EVERY democrat has said that doctors and nurses make too much money. Maybe they have NO CLUE.. what they are saying when they lambast "the high price of healthcare". But the facts are.. a large portion of the cost in the US vs other countries.. is the cost in staff.

And I can absolutely point to democrat legislation that reduces pay. Obamacare had many "cost cutting".. provisions in it that lowered reimbursement for procedures. Well WHO DO YOU THINK PROVIDES THOSE PROCEDURES? How obtuse do you have to be to not understand that lowering reimbursement.. has an effect on what providers get paid!!!!.. Sheesh.

You can't point to any democrat calling for doctors and nurses to make less.

Some people like you apparently like seeing tens of millions of Americans unable to see a doctor when they need it and tens of millions more going into vast medical debt. Your stubbornness and refusal to put the blame where it belongs is the reason Americans pay over double per capita what everyone else does to usually get less.

 

[jaeger19]

Cosmetic procedures cost several times as much as procedures of similar difficulty/risk which are medically necessary.

A veterinary ophthalmologist, who may do cataract surgery on the family dog for cash, usually gets paid twice as much as a human ophthalmologist doing the same procedure on Grandma. And grandma’s surgery carries more liability.

It seems if the free market worked so well, you would be seeing the reverse.

Yeah.. what are you talking about...your post had nothing to do with the post I made.

 

[Cardinal]

Doctors, therapists PAs, Nurse practitioners, nurses, x ray techs.. etc.

The people that is the major reason that healthcare costs are greater than in other countries where they pay much less.. or have fewer providers etc.

I’ve never heard of Democrats condemning them for making too much. I’m not saying it’s never happened, but that’s brand new to me.

 

[ataraxia]

Yeah.. what are you talking about...your post had nothing to do with the post I made.

Sure it does. You said “ So when you tell me going to a government system that already costs me the most.. is going to save money? Don't believe you.”

So it sounds to me like you were advocating for taking healthcare out of the hands of insurance companies and government, and leaving it up to the free market. I showed you that once procedures are put on the free market, the cost goes even higher.

If that’s not the alternative you’re proposing, what is?

 

[jaeger19]

You can't point to any democrat calling for doctors and nurses to make less.

Some people like you apparently like seeing tens of millions of Americans unable to see a doctor when they need it and tens of millions more going into vast medical debt. Your stubbornness and refusal to put the blame where it belongs is the reason Americans pay over double per capita what everyone else does to usually get less.

sure I can.. Sanders, and every other democrat that has been calling for medicare for all and the reduction of healthcare costs to "what other countries pay". There is no free lunch there. Other countries pay less by having fewer facilities, fewer providers and by having lower salaries. Its a large part where they get their savings. Healthcare is labor intensive.. as you are finding out now. It has costs to have excess capacity.

You are the one that refuses to understand why the US pays more in healthcare than other countries. You think there is some magical free lunch where you just wave the medicare for all wand and drop what is spent on healthcare by half..and think there is no consequences for the providers of that healthcare or the facilities that house patients.

by the way.. you seem to miss my OP where I said screw you to republicans that didn't want Obamacare and to get everyone covered with insurance.

Its your stubbornness to refuse to look at facts which is why we are where we are today... glad as heck that we have the capacity that we have.. even though we paid for it when we get our MRI and pay twice as much as another country.

 

[Moderate Right]

Literally no Democrat has said that doctors and nurses make too much money. It's the insurance, pharmaceutical and hospital companies gouging the American people. Medical worker salaries are not the problem and you can't point to any Democratic legislation trying to reduce them. You added that hyperbole because you're a conservative that feels conflicted for criticizing Republicans.

**** Republicans for keeping our system the most expensive in the world by far yet ranked nowhere near the top in most metrics.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm, the left are always trying to cut payments to providers, which includes doctors, and wanting to force all of them to accept Medicare/Medicaid rates. So, yes, the left do want to cut doctors's pay.

 

[jaeger19]

Sure it does. You said “ So when you tell me going to a government system that already costs me the most.. is going to save money? Don't believe you.”

So it sounds to me like you were advocating for taking healthcare out of the hands of insurance companies and government, and leaving it up to the free market. I showed you that once procedures are put on the free market, the cost goes even higher.

If that’s not the alternative you’re proposing, what is?

Sure it does. You said “ So when you tell me going to a government system that already costs me the most.. is going to save money? Don't believe you.”

So it sounds to me like you were advocating for taking healthcare out of the hands of insurance companies and government, and leaving it up to the free market. I showed you that once procedures are put on the free market, the cost goes even higher.

If that’s not the alternative you’re proposing, what is?

Yeah.. here is your screw you.

Why did you conveniently miss where I stated that Obamacare, Medicaid expansion etc were good things?

Why is it with you whackadoos.. that the only answers are medicare for all... OR getting rid of medicare, Medicaid and the VA and letting the "free market insurance".. find a way to make a profit on a 88 year old male with a hx of stroke?

Sheesh. And people wonder why providers are pissed off?

 

[jaeger19]

I’ve never heard of Democrats condemning them for making too much. I’m not saying it’s never happened, but that’s brand new to me.

That's what they are doing when the talk about "what other countries pay".

Kind of like how anti abortion folks say "what? No anti abortion person wants more women to die or suffer"... When that's exactly what will happen if access to abortion services is curtailed (which is what anti abortion folks support).

 

[Moderate Right]

You can't point to any democrat calling for doctors and nurses to make less.

Some people like you apparently like seeing tens of millions of Americans unable to see a doctor when they need it and tens of millions more going into vast medical debt. Your stubbornness and refusal to put the blame where it belongs is the reason Americans pay over double per capita what everyone else does to usually get less.

Most every one of them wants to cut reimbursement rates to providers, which include doctors. It's well known that doctors actually lose money on Medicare/Medicaid patients while making it up with those covered by real health insurance. Some doctors even refuse Medicare/Medicaid patients. Those evil greedy sons of a bitches!

 

[Moderate Right]

I’ve never heard of Democrats condemning them for making too much. I’m not saying it’s never happened, but that’s brand new to me.

It's not knew that Democrat's solution to cutting health care costs is stiffing the providers, which includes doctors.

 

[Moderate Right]

Sure it does. You said “ So when you tell me going to a government system that already costs me the most.. is going to save money? Don't believe you.”

So it sounds to me like you were advocating for taking healthcare out of the hands of insurance companies and government, and leaving it up to the free market. I showed you that once procedures are put on the free market, the cost goes even higher.

If that’s not the alternative you’re proposing, what is?

Ummmmmmmmmmmm, did it occur to you that jaegar is in the business and you are nothing but a know it all nobody with nothing but a wrong opinion?

 

[Cardinal]

That's what they are doing when the talk about "what other countries pay".

Kind of like how anti abortion folks say "what? No anti abortion person wants more women to die or suffer"... When that's exactly what will happen if access to abortion services is curtailed (which is what anti abortion folks support).

No, they're talking about the profiteering from health insurance providers.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

As a medical provider I have to vent a little bit during my "break". I have family and friends in healthcare that are risking their lives and their families lives helping YOU. (democrat and republican).
And I hear all about how you "appreciate us".

Well... to my republican friends? Remember how you lambasted Obamacare.. and lambasted the expansion of Medicaid, and "government take over of healthcare". Well imagine the crisis without the millions and millions of people that got healthcare insurance under Obamacare. Sheesh.

And to my democrat friends.. who a month ago were telling me that I made too much money.. that doctors and nurses and respiratory therapists made to much.. that we were greedy? Well.. some of those "greedy" folks are working themselves to the bone..and even dying for you. While in many places they are getting cuts in pay while they work even more hours.

And to both the democrats and republicans who complained about the "cost of healthcare". Who complained that "its shouldn't cost so much when I go to the hospital especially for my finger to get sewn up in the emergency room?

Remember when I told you that you were not just paying for your finger to be sewn up.. but were also paying for those ventilators the hospital has and all the other equipment and staff they have in case you get really sick? Well you are seeing that now.

There is no free lunch here folks.

Now.. stay home.. and stay healthy..

God bless.

Great post, but I don't remember any tidal wave of lefties saying that medical people made too much money.
There's a small handful of doctors who make outrageous amounts of money but for the most part their practices are centered around elective stuff like cosmetic surgeries, and a lot of them own "medical services corporations", and that end of the business is lucrative because...because business is good.
Some folks who own medical services outfits aren't even doctors, or even nurses, they're just business people.
A friend of ours down in Texas is a disabled Army veteran and about fifteen years ago she bought into an outfit that's a medical supplies vendor with VA contracts. She sells catheters and the like.

She bought a Lamborghini because business is good, that's all.

Lefties mounting a campaign to diminish doctor salaries?
Ehh, maybe a few crackpots but if it was as ubiquitous as you're implying, it would have already been a massive media hit.

Stay safe and be well.

 

[Casper]

As a medical provider I have to vent a little bit during my "break". I have family and friends in healthcare that are risking their lives and their families lives helping YOU. (democrat and republican).
And I hear all about how you "appreciate us".

Well... to my republican friends? Remember how you lambasted Obamacare.. and lambasted the expansion of Medicaid, and "government take over of healthcare". Well imagine the crisis without the millions and millions of people that got healthcare insurance under Obamacare. Sheesh.

And to my democrat friends.. who a month ago were telling me that I made too much money.. that doctors and nurses and respiratory therapists made to much.. that we were greedy? Well.. some of those "greedy" folks are working themselves to the bone..and even dying for you. While in many places they are getting cuts in pay while they work even more hours.

And to both the democrats and republicans who complained about the "cost of healthcare". Who complained that "its shouldn't cost so much when I go to the hospital especially for my finger to get sewn up in the emergency room?

Remember when I told you that you were not just paying for your finger to be sewn up.. but were also paying for those ventilators the hospital has and all the other equipment and staff they have in case you get really sick? Well you are seeing that now.

There is no free lunch here folks.

Now.. stay home.. and stay healthy..

God bless.

Wow, feel like I just had a Drive By and yet understood why they did it.

 

[dcaraz]

As a medical provider I have to vent a little bit during my "break". I have family and friends in healthcare that are risking their lives and their families lives helping YOU. (democrat and republican).
And I hear all about how you "appreciate us".

Well... to my republican friends? Remember how you lambasted Obamacare.. and lambasted the expansion of Medicaid, and "government take over of healthcare". Well imagine the crisis without the millions and millions of people that got healthcare insurance under Obamacare. Sheesh.

And to my democrat friends.. who a month ago were telling me that I made too much money.. that doctors and nurses and respiratory therapists made to much.. that we were greedy? Well.. some of those "greedy" folks are working themselves to the bone..and even dying for you. While in many places they are getting cuts in pay while they work even more hours.

And to both the democrats and republicans who complained about the "cost of healthcare". Who complained that "its shouldn't cost so much when I go to the hospital especially for my finger to get sewn up in the emergency room?

Remember when I told you that you were not just paying for your finger to be sewn up.. but were also paying for those ventilators the hospital has and all the other equipment and staff they have in case you get really sick? Well you are seeing that now.

There is no free lunch here folks.

Now.. stay home.. and stay healthy..

God bless.

You, my friend, have the perfect right to vent at everyone in our society who isn't currently putting their life on the line to help our sick and fallen.

Your posting is one of the most understandable I have come across regarding the Covid-19 epidemic.
Most of the arguing within this forum is to ascribe fault why we are facing this crisis.

I am personally in favor of universal health care coverage. No one can tell me that our nation can't afford to make decent affordable care available to every citizen.
It is complex, but certainly can be done. I resent the Republican unwillingness to improve and expand Obamacare. And I am sickened by the Trump Administration's
unwillingness to make Obamacare coverage available right now to any uninsured American.

But I'm surprised at your anger toward Democrats for the simple reason that the complaint about America's high-cost of medical care has been focused on three culprits,
and none are the doctors, nurses and healthcare professionals. Most Democrats point to the high profits made by health insurers (the gatekeepers), pharmaceutical makers,
and medical device companies. Maybe folks complain to you about your income, but I have only heard complaints about the large companies that have increased their prices
far higher than inflation or American incomes.

Thanks for your service! Come back and vent any time.

 

[ataraxia]

Ummmmmmmmmmmm, did it occur to you that jaegar is in the business and you are nothing but a know it all nobody with nothing but a wrong opinion?

I work in the healthcare sector.

 

[ataraxia]

You, my friend, have the perfect right to vent at everyone in our society who isn't currently putting their life on the line to help our sick and fallen.

Your posting is one of the most understandable I have come across regarding the Covid-19 epidemic.
Most of the arguing within this forum is to ascribe fault why we are facing this crisis.

I am personally in favor of universal health care coverage. No one can tell me that our nation can't afford to make decent affordable care available to every citizen.
It is complex, but certainly can be done. I resent the Republican unwillingness to improve and expand Obamacare. And I am sickened by the Trump Administration's
unwillingness to make Obamacare coverage available right now to any uninsured American.

But I'm surprised at your anger toward Democrats for the simple reason that the complaint about America's high-cost of medical care has been focused on three culprits,
and none are the doctors, nurses and healthcare professionals. Most Democrats point to the high profits made by health insurers (the gatekeepers), pharmaceutical makers,
and medical device companies. Maybe folks complain to you about your income, but I have only heard complaints about the large companies that have increased their prices
far higher than inflation or American incomes.

Thanks for your service! Come back and vent any time.

Maybe he is trying to find something to criticize the Democrats about so that he may be seen by the right as not being partisan, and they will listen to him.

 

[FinnFox]

**** Republicans for keeping our system the most expensive in the world by far yet ranked nowhere near the top in most metrics.

We have this horrible socialistic system: cap to hospital expenses, a bit over €680 / year. Lucky US folks are able to run into debt by hospital bills.

 

[Moderate Right]

I work in the healthcare sector.

Sorry, but I have seen jaeger post on here for quite some time now and is very knowledgeable in this area. Just because you are an janitor in a hospital doesn't make you an expert in healthcare.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

So far we are okay but most of my facilities are just in the beginnings of the crest. I have one facility that is in a "hotspot".. and we are diverting PPE toward it.

but thanks. The bigger worry is ventilators and capacity being mostly rural facilities.

The other worry is having money. The money making side is largely done.. because no elective surgeries for the last month. Because at the end of the day.. we have to have money to buy that PPE.. and buy ventilators and equipment.

Its basically not being "given" to us at this point.

To be fair, doctors in Italy are also dying and making less. I don't think it's as simple as "doctor's make too much in the U.S." The whole system is screwed up.

1. Medical school should be free. Doctors often have a huge student loan burden

2. We should have more medical schools and more doctors. It's absurd that some can't get into medical school because they got poor grades in English Literature or History.

3. Doctors shouldn't have to pay their own malpractice insurance. I've heard doctors complain about how expensive that is. Why isn't it a big universal insurance coverage handled by the government?

Thank you for your service. We always say this to military personnel but we forget that the invisible enemy that kills most people is disease. We should put more money into the war against cancer, viruses and disease. We should see health care as essential as the military in terms of protecting the lives of citizens.

 

[ataraxia]

Sorry, but I have seen jaeger post on here for quite some time now and is very knowledgeable in this area. Just because you are an janitor in a hospital doesn't make you an expert in healthcare.

I have a little more background than that.

But regardless, it looks like Jaeger and I are not disagreeing on much. So I am not sure why you are feeling this need to be inserting yourself here and feeling like you need to try to be rude and insulting. It’s not really contributing to the discussion. :shrug:

 

[ultmd]

It seems obvious that if total US medical care costs are going to be reduced (from 18% of GDP to 12%?) that someone is going to end up being paid quite a bit less. I guess it boils down to who, exactly, is considered to be a medical care provider.

I'm thinking that the OP is applying a larger umbrella to the term "medical care provider" than I am.

That is often the case, but it takes more than just doctors and nurses to run a hospital or clinic. There is simply not 33% (or more) of "unnecessary overhead" in the current medical care provider system. It is also a fact that US doctors are among the highest paid in the world.

If you want to throw hospital administrators into the pile, that's fine by me. I still think, even beyond that, the OP is applying a larger umbrella to the term "medical care provider."

No doubt, the OP has a overly broad definition of "health care provider". If I recall, Jaeger is a guy who sells medical equipment...and yet he considers himself a "health care provider". He also used to pretend to be a "liberal", in forums on DP.

The problem I have with the OP is that it's an obvious attempt to play the "both sides are to blame" card, which we ALWAYS see from conservatives they feel compelled to criticize or blame their "side" for failure, incompetence or corruption of some sort. In this case, the notion that "literally EVERY Democrat has said that doctors and nurses make to much money"....is just an absurd bit of conservative fiction. Democrats have ALWAYS said that insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, medical device companies, hospital execs, etc....are the people who profiteering in our health care system.