• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

A ME rule should be changed

Status
Not open for further replies.

bub

R.I.P. Léo
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
9,649
Reaction score
2,173
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
I appreciate the efforts made by the moderation team in the M/E forum, and I support harsh rules in this part of the forum because I think it is the only way to moderate it.

However, I think that we should remember the purpose of the rules (make debate possible): in certain cases, a rule can be "violated" but it does not make sense to enforce it.

For example, it is forbidden to say "apartheid" in the ME forum because some people think there is an analogy between what happens in Palestine and what happened in South Africa, and the ones who wrote the rules consider that this comparison is flaming. But someone who wants to complain about some bad arguments used by other people could say the word "apartheid" without intention to flame, yet according to the rules he should be infracted, like in this post

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middl...stinian-land-irreversible.html#post1059055974

Another example, it is forbidden to talk about "land theft" because some posters could talk about Israel as "land stolen from Palestinians" or about Palestine as "land stolen from Israel". In this case, it makes sense to infract the words "land theft".

However there is a third case (the colonies in West-Bank or in the Palestinian part of Jerusalem) where this expression is factually correct: the land was attributed to Palestinians by the UN, yet Israeli occupied, colonized and annexed this Palestinian land unilaterally, without negociations, in total violation of the international law and without any compensation. The adequate word to describe this process is "theft":

theft"

a : the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it
Theft - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

"to steal":


1
: to take the property of another wrongfully

a : to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully <stole a car>
b : to take away by force or unjust means <they've stolen our liberty>
c : to take surreptitiously or without permission <steal a kiss>
d : to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share
-
Steal - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
-
Now I'm not saying that the rules should be changed, but I think they should be enforced only when they make sense. In the two cases I have mentioned, it does not make sense to enforce the rule.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Goshin

The Hammer of Chaos
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
45,501
Reaction score
50,051
Location
Dixie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Oh, frack.

Bub, I was trying to reply, and accidentally edited your post. I'm terribly sorry. Let me see if there's a way to fix it and put it back the way it was.
 

bub

R.I.P. Léo
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
9,649
Reaction score
2,173
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
No problem :p

I was just saying that I support the ME rules but in certain cases it does not make sense to enforce some parts of it.

In my example, is forbidden to talk about "land theft" because some posters could talk about Israel as "land stolen from Palestinians" or about Palestine as "land stolen from Israel". In this case, it makes sense to infract the words "land theft".

However there is a third case (the colonies in West-Bank or in the Palestinian part of Jerusalem) where this expression is factually correct: the land was attributed to Palestinians by the UN, yet Israeli occupied, colonized and annexed this Palestinian land unilaterally, without negociations, in total violation of the international law and without any compensation. The adequate word to describe this process is "theft"

(just look up in a dictionary if you are not convinced)

So I think the rule should not be enforced in this case, it does not make sense to ban a word that is factually correct. "land theft" may sound harsh but that's what happens in West-Bank and East Jerusalem.
 

Gardener

free market communist
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
26,661
Reaction score
15,927
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Oh, frack.

Bub, I was trying to reply, and accidentally edited your post. I'm terribly sorry. Let me see if there's a way to fix it and put it back the way it was.
Well, dagnabbit, Goshin.

Could you at least please put back in the part where he said that Gardener should be in complete control of the ME forum.

Thanks
 

Goshin

The Hammer of Chaos
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
45,501
Reaction score
50,051
Location
Dixie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Well, I'm glad you're not POed, 'cuz apparently it can't be put back again. :doh

Boy is my face red. Gosh darn mod buttons.... :3oops:
 
  • Like
Reactions: bub

Gardener

free market communist
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
26,661
Reaction score
15,927
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Well, I'm glad you're not POed, 'cuz apparently it can't be put back again. :doh

Boy is my face red. Gosh darn mod buttons.... :3oops:
No, I'm not P.Od.

I was certainly flattered that he wanted the forum to surrender all authority to me, felt it would be a good idea if its denizens all trembled under my wrath, and am of the opinion that the carnage I would unleash would be so impressive as to leave the remaining few gasping in awe, but I'm a little busy these days with my work, so really don't have the time necessary to dedicate to such a righteous task.

I was planning on declining, even at the risk of disappointing the assembled masses sure to lobby on behalf of my coronation as the one supreme master of the Middle east.
 

Demon of Light

Bohemian Revolutionary
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
5,095
Reaction score
1,544
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Another example, it is forbidden to talk about "land theft" because some posters could talk about Israel as "land stolen from Palestinians" or about Palestine as "land stolen from Israel". In this case, it makes sense to infract the words "land theft".
You should look into the martial law period following Israeli independence and the Absentee Property Law. There are circumstances where even the case you mentioned can be legitimately describe that way concerning Israel.

Could you at least please put back in the part where he said that Gardener should be in complete control of the ME forum.
Now there's a frightening thought.
 

Zyphlin

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
51,312
Reaction score
35,172
Location
NoMoAuchie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Bub,

The current Martial Law rules are written in their more stringent way in regards to arguments specifically because a more lenient version allowed for posters to routinely push and bend the rules to their extreme's and spend hours upon hours arguing technicalities and loopholes and opinion with moderators when action was taken. Such a situation did not enhance, but actually hindered, any worth while and useful debate to occur in that forum. This is what led to the current rule set and the more civil environment in the forum as of late.

However, you misrepresent and misstate how the rules are applied. The word "apartheid" itself is not banned, nor is the word "theft". Indeed, what you suggest...looking at what is being said...is done. In the case you quoted for apartheid there is no attempts at drawing an analogy between Israel and apartheid, there is no accusations of apartheid taking place, it is being pointed out that the writer of the article has stated such before. In regards to theft, if a story came out where a Israeli citizen mugged and committed theft against a Palestinian man in Jerusalem and it was talked about as "theft" it is not likely an infraction would be levied by such. However if someone specifically makes "accusations of land theft", as the rules state, then they're going to get gigged. There's no real if's, and's, or buts about this. The reason is clearly stated "The Israeli, Palestinian, and Arab narratives differ on that issue."

Your issue you point out is not valid, and is not the case, but is instead the exact thing the rules was put into effect for. Comments suggesting that one side has, or is, "stealing" or "thieving" land from the other side is prohibited. Where you think it is "factually" correct or not is irrelevant, its against the rules and its against the rules for a reason. It is clear you have a purpose, and an aim, in this thread that is in and of itself bordering on 6a. How you suggest the rules are enforced is patently false, how you suggest the rules should enforce IS how they're enforced, which leaves the only thing left is you disagreeing with the fact of HOW they were enforced in a specific situation which you are clearly referencing. There's three ways to address those type of situations revolving around specific mod action...take it to the Binky forum, send a PM, or use the contact us button.

Due to the fact that what is being "suggested" that is not 6a related, which is that words themselves are not "forbidden" from being said in the Middle Least Forum, is already in affect and all that is left in this "suggestion" is a 6a issue this thread is closed.

Moderator's Warning:
Thread closed
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom