A male backlash against #MeToo is brewing

Men are scared, and feminists are delighted. But the urge to call out and punish male sexual transgression is bound to clash with an inescapable truth: We’re all in this together, men and women.

Consider what’s happening in the capital of Florida. Female staffers and lobbyists have found “many male legislators will no longer meet with them privately,” reported The Miami Herald. “I had a senator say, ‘I need my aide here in the room because I need a chaperone,’ ” lobbyist Jennifer Green told the paper. “I said, ‘Senator, why do you need a chaperone? . . . Do you feel uncomfortable around me?’ ‘Well,’ he said, ‘anyone can say anything with the door shut.’ ”

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Companies are limiting travel between genders, men are talking about segregation of the sexes.

Claire Berlinski calls the #MeToo movement “a frenzied extrajudicial warlock hunt that does not pause to parse the difference between rape and stupidity” and “a classic moral panic, one that is ultimately as dangerous to women as to men.”

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Dress 'em up in a burka and have them escorted at all times by a chaperone. And have them walk several feet behind the men, so that there will be no question that there was no illicit physical contact. That's the ticket. What a wonderful career boost that will be.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/03/a-male-backlash-against-metoo-is-brewing/

LowDown said:

Companies are limiting travel between genders, men are talking about segregation of the sexes.



Dress 'em up in a burka and have them escorted at all times by a chaperone. And have them walk several feet behind the men, so that there will be no question that there was no illicit physical contact. That's the ticket. What a wonderful career boost that will be.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/03/a-male-backlash-against-metoo-is-brewing/

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The MeToo movement seemed just fine until the FemiNazis media manipulators took charge. Now, it is a distorted movement run amock.
/

LowDown said:

Companies are limiting travel between genders, men are talking about segregation of the sexes.



Dress 'em up in a burka and have them escorted at all times by a chaperone. And have them walk several feet behind the men, so that there will be no question that there was no illicit physical contact. That's the ticket. What a wonderful career boost that will be.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/03/a-male-backlash-against-metoo-is-brewing/

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This has actually been happening more and more...its not just a response to the #MeToo movement. It started before it. Too many false claims of sexual harassment/assault has been flung out there and mens lives ruined even though they were false allegations. It's only smart to protect yourself from such. ESPECIALLY in this litigious society we have now a days.

This always happens with a reasonable movement for valid reasons falling into the hands of militant intentions. #MeToo should have been something to point out real concerns, and it ended up becoming a reason to bandwagon champion and divide from others.

Kal'Stang said:

This has actually been happening more and more...its not just a response to the #MeToo movement. It started before it. Too many false claims of sexual harassment/assault has been flung out there and mens lives ruined even though they were false allegations. It's only smart to protect yourself from such. ESPECIALLY in this litigious society we have now a days.

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You mean someone might lie. The media has been telling us that if someone accuses someone of something then we must believe the accusations and not ask for evidence, the MSM didn’t say The accuser might lie.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kal'Stang said:

Too many false claims of sexual harassment/assault has been flung out there and mens lives ruined even though they were false allegations.

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Such as?

Who has been falsely accused? Apparently there's "many".
Care to list some names?

Dragonfly said:

Such as?

Who has been falsely accused? Apparently there's "many".
Care to list some names?

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I certainly hope your question isn't born out of false belief that it doesn't happen... Oh well, here's a starting place for ya...

False accusation of rape

Dragonfly said:

Such as?

Who has been falsely accused? Apparently there's "many".
Care to list some names?

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It's a sticky wicket of sorts.
Proving a negative isn't always impossible, but the burden can be hard to meet. Meanwhile, an accusation lingers forever and if the burden of proof is simply saying a crime has been committed, then I'm afraid we've created a bit of a monster.

Kal'Stang said:

I certainly hope your question isn't born out of false belief that it doesn't happen... Oh well, here's a starting place for ya...

False accusation of rape

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Of course it happens.
Rather rare.
People are often times falsely reported for committing all kinds of crimes.
I don't expect rape to be any different.


You still didn't answer my question though.

Who are the many who've been falsely accused and ruined?

By the way, in comparison, how many women have been attacked and had their lives drastically altered (some might say "ruined") by men?

Which way does the balance lean?
On one side, men who are falsely accused. On the other side women who've been attacked/raped.

Which side probably needs more support form society in general?

Dragonfly said:

Of course it happens.
Rather rare.
People are often times falsely reported for committing all kinds of crimes.
I don't expect rape to be any different.


You still didn't answer my question though.

Who are the many who've been falsely accused and ruined?

By the way, in comparison, how many women have been attacked and had their lives drastically altered (some might say "ruined") by men?

Which way does the balance lean?
On one side, men who are falsely accused. On the other side women who've been attacked/raped.

Which side probably needs more support form society in general?

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Where does the balance lean? Is this about retribution or justice?

Who are the men? Do you want examples? Raw data? Testimonials?

What's the burden of proof in order to consider the dilemma that the #metoo movement has been coopted and needs policing to stay true to its mission?

Dragonfly said:

Of course it happens.
Rather rare.
People are often times falsely reported for committing all kinds of crimes.
I don't expect rape to be any different.


You still didn't answer my question though.

Who are the many who've been falsely accused and ruined?

By the way, in comparison, how many women have been attacked and had their lives drastically altered (some might say "ruined") by men?

Which way does the balance lean?
On one side, men who are falsely accused. On the other side women who've been attacked/raped.

Which side probably needs more support form society in general?

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That you want names is irrelevant to the discussion. The fact that it happens IS relevant. Now if you want to discuss whether those men's lives are ruined or not, that could be a valid stance to take. Only reason for asking for the "who" is to cherry pick. Worthless.

And as to how much it happens? Tell me, what is your stance on the death penalty? Do you believe that even one innocent being put to death is wrong? How about something less drastic, do you believe that putting an innocent in prison to be wrong? Even more germane to the topic, do you think that it is wrong for anyone to be falsely accused of a crime for revenge or chance to avoid embarrassment?

You ask "which way does the balance lean". I say that is the wrong question to ask. Your question should be along the lines of "How do we ensure that both sides are properly taken care of?

I find it a little ironic that all these people making a big thing about segregating men and women to avoid false accusations of abuse haven’t made the same kind of noises to avoid actual abuse.

I’ve been alone with female colleagues plenty of times without any fear of being falsely accused of anything and presumably no fear on their part of me actually abusing them. I’d suggest that there has to be something wrong with their industry, working environment or themselves if they feel the need to take such precautions so maybe they should be looking to fix those underlying problems rather than just covering their own backs.

Also, on a completely side issue, should Senators be having private meetings with lobbyists at all? It seems like conflicts of interest and corruption are a bigger risk that false abuse accusations (unless that’s the basis for the corruption of I guess).

Kal'Stang said:

Your question should be along the lines of "How do we ensure that both sides are properly taken care of?

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Which starts with making sure women don't feel ashamed about speaking up.

Again, have you any idea how many women are attacked/raped and never report it?
Why don't they report it?

Dragonfly said:

Which starts with making sure women don't feel ashamed about speaking up.

Again, have you any idea how many women are attacked/raped and never report it?
Why don't they report it?

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There are a myriad of reasons why women don't report and I'm not sure that has any bearing on ensuring that the #metoo movement doesn't unfairly punish men, which is a real danger to the underlying premise of #metoo.
I think it's reasonable to hit the "pause" button and figure out how to use the momentum and awareness to create a codified system of offenses and "punishment".

Butt grabs are simply not the same as rape.

Dragonfly said:

Which starts with making sure women don't feel ashamed about speaking up.

Again, have you any idea how many women are attacked/raped and never report it?
Why don't they report it?

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No, it starts by making sure that both sides are not crapped on.

Here's a suggestion that may solve both problems.

How about we make it to where the whole thing is done in secrecy? IE: The woman reports that a man sexually assaulted/harassed her. From that point on the woman's (or mans) name is not released. The mans (or woman's) name is also not released. Once the investigation and court verdict is concluded in either direction then appropriate consequences are handed out for whoever did the wrong. Then the names may be released of the perpetrator, not the victim. If anyone at any time, (before, or during) releases the names then whoever it was that released the names is prosecuted for violating this new law. If the name of the victim is released after the investigation is concluded then whoever released the name is prosecuted for violating this new law. We could also make it against the law for newspapers/media to release the names under the same restrictions/guidelines.

This would have the advantage of making sure the man's life is not ruined if falsely accused and it would also make it to where a woman would not be afraid of embarrassment as their situation is kept strictly confidential. Both sides win with this.

Dragonfly said:

Such as?

Who has been falsely accused? Apparently there's "many".
Care to list some names?

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Happens all the time and there is no justifiable one blanket answer to your other post wherein you ask, who needs more protection...except for the one that says all innocents are required, by the often touted, law to have equal protection, am I right?

But you ask about names of falsely accused, some famous ones off the top of my head? Kobie Bryant, Duke LaCrosse team, the Tawana Brawley false rape allegations...just to name a few.

Go to any iniversity campus and you will have a ton of horror stories, no doubt from both sides. Black QB at Florida State another of the famous ones a few years back.

Kal'Stang said:

That you want names is irrelevant to the discussion. The fact that it happens IS relevant. Now if you want to discuss whether those men's lives are ruined or not, that could be a valid stance to take. Only reason for asking for the "who" is to cherry pick. Worthless.

And as to how much it happens? Tell me, what is your stance on the death penalty? Do you believe that even one innocent being put to death is wrong? How about something less drastic, do you believe that putting an innocent in prison to be wrong? Even more germane to the topic, do you think that it is wrong for anyone to be falsely accused of a crime for revenge or chance to avoid embarrassment?

You ask "which way does the balance lean". I say that is the wrong question to ask. Your question should be along the lines of "How do we ensure that both sides are properly taken care of?

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You make a solid point, Kal... I think we should always be striving for the most fair way to approach this, to eliminate as much as possible the chances for people to be wrongly accused...though I do find it somewhat telling that only now, in the face of a massive movement to curb long standing behaviors towards women, are some men suddenly concerned that "we ensure that both sides are properly taken care of".... Not hanging that one on you personally, Kal, but that type is certainly out there, and in large numbers, based on forum posts and social media infographics that have been slinking around.

With that in mind, I think this so-called "male backlash" the OP is seeming to both celebrate and lament at the same time, is a good thing. Why haven't corporations taken steps before to eliminate the possibility of this happening? Why is it only now, that men are being threatened, that companies are starting to take steps to avoid having women put in vulnerable positions? Women have been dealing with the consequences of not having these protections in place for, well, forever. I think this makes their point, vs. detracting from it.

It's just too bad it's being framed as "required protection for frightened and oppressed men", vs being a good initiative to ensure that, as you hope, will "ensure that both sides are properly taken care of", in places and conditions which have yielded higher instances of harassment and assault. I think this is a far more useful approach than wringing hands about false accusations and doing nothing.

Kal'Stang said:

No, it starts by making sure that both sides are not crapped on.

Here's a suggestion that may solve both problems.

How about we make it to where the whole thing is done in secrecy? IE: The woman reports that a man sexually assaulted/harassed her. From that point on the woman's (or mans) name is not released. The mans (or woman's) name is also not released. Once the investigation and court verdict is concluded in either direction then appropriate consequences are handed out for whoever did the wrong. Then the names may be released of the perpetrator, not the victim. If anyone at any time, (before, or during) releases the names then whoever it was that released the names is prosecuted for violating this new law. If the name of the victim is released after the investigation is concluded then whoever released the name is prosecuted for violating this new law. We could also make it against the law for newspapers/media to release the names under the same restrictions/guidelines.

This would have the advantage of making sure the man's life is not ruined if falsely accused and it would also make it to where a woman would not be afraid of embarrassment as their situation is kept strictly confidential. Both sides win with this.

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Just an addendum to this....

Bold: I actually wouldn't mind seeing this type of thing applied all across the board regarding crimes. Would make it awfully hard for the media to spin things if they couldn't even release the names until a conviction and court case were completed, or the name of the victim.

Gaugingcatenate said:

Happens all the time and there is no justifiable one blanket answer to your other post wherein you ask, who needs more protection...except for the one that says all innocents are required, by the often touted, law to have equal protection, am I right?

But you ask about names of falsely accused, some famous ones off the top of my head? Kobie Bryant, Duke LaCrosse team, the Tawana Brawley false rape allegations...just to name a few.

Go to any iniversity campus and you will have a ton of horror stories, no doubt from both sides. Black QB at Florida State another of the famous ones a few years back.

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UVA. If that isn't enough proof that lying about being sexually assaulted has become easy to sell, I don't know what is.

Dragonfly said:

Which starts with making sure women don't feel ashamed about speaking up.

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we can't do that nobody is in charge of how someone else feels so there's no making sure.

Again, have you any idea how many women are attacked/raped and never report it?
Why don't they report it?

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I imagine they don't report it number one because they fear retaliation number two they fear stigmatization those are actually two reasons why men and boys don't report it I imagine that has a lot to do with why most unreported crimes are unreported.

Dragonfly said:

Which starts with making sure women don't feel ashamed about speaking up.

Again, have you any idea how many women are attacked/raped and never report it?
Why don't they report it?

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A better question is why do they report it 20+ years after the alleged incident took place, days before an election, and to the Washington Post rather than a law enforcement agency?

HonestJoe said:

I find it a little ironic that all these people making a big thing about segregating men and women to avoid false accusations of abuse haven’t made the same kind of noises to avoid actual abuse.

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Well when people do they they are accused of victim blaming.

I’ve been alone with female colleagues plenty of times without any fear of being falsely accused of anything and presumably no fear on their part of me actually abusing them. I’d suggest that there has to be something wrong with their industry, working environment or themselves if they feel the need to take such precautions so maybe they should be looking to fix those underlying problems rather than just covering their own backs.

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You can't fix being falsely accused. I'm glad you trust you trust your colleagues.

LowDown said:

Companies are limiting travel between genders, men are talking about segregation of the sexes.



Dress 'em up in a burka and have them escorted at all times by a chaperone. And have them walk several feet behind the men, so that there will be no question that there was no illicit physical contact. That's the ticket. What a wonderful career boost that will be.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/03/a-male-backlash-against-metoo-is-brewing/

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or just dont molest people

Kal'Stang said:

This has actually been happening more and more...its not just a response to the #MeToo movement. It started before it. Too many false claims of sexual harassment/assault has been flung out there and mens lives ruined even though they were false allegations. It's only smart to protect yourself from such. ESPECIALLY in this litigious society we have now a days.

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A sexual assault happens in the US every 98 seconds. 1 in 6 women have been a victim of a completed or attempted rape.

But yeah it's the minuscule amount of false accusations that are the real issue here, obviously.

From your link, btw:

MacLean deemed reports "false" if, for instance, the victim did not appear "dishevelled"

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Dragonfly said:

Of course it happens.
Rather rare.
People are often times falsely reported for committing all kinds of crimes.
I don't expect rape to be any different.


You still didn't answer my question though.

Who are the many who've been falsely accused and ruined?

By the way, in comparison, how many women have been attacked and had their lives drastically altered (some might say "ruined") by men?

Which way does the balance lean?
On one side, men who are falsely accused. On the other side women who've been attacked/raped.

Which side probably needs more support form society in general?

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It's baffling and infuriating that the response to the 'revelation' that millions of men are committing sexual assault and millions of women are victims to it is "but what about the men!!!!!"