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A look back at when the Supreme Court first prohibited school-led prayer

Craig234

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Then as now, there were people who agreed and people who disagreed. It fell on JFK to react to the Supreme Court ruling. He said that as a civil matter the Supreme Court needed to be followed, but there was an easy solution, for parents to increase their religious practices as church and home. That's where it's been since, and should have remained, as the three legitimate Justices ruled.

 

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Then as now, there were people who agreed and people who disagreed. It fell on JFK to react to the Supreme Court ruling. He said that as a civil matter the Supreme Court needed to be followed, but there was an easy solution, for parents to increase their religious practices as church and home. That's where it's been since, and should have remained, as the three legitimate Justices ruled.


Legitimate justices. Nothing legitimate about making law from the bench. Their job is to rule on how the law is carried out and if it is done properly or not. Liberals are always twisting the law to meet their crazy "feelings".
 

Phys251

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A lot of parents certainly didn't want prayers in the classroom. I mean, there's seven major religions and hundreds of minor beliefs/religions.
To be fair, class would never start, simply because after hundreds of prayers, time would run out.
"What did you learn today, honey"
"Something about parting 974 million gallons of water in some sea and putting a goat on an alter and then setting it on fire."
 

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A lot of parents certainly didn't want prayers in the classroom. I mean, there's seven major religions and hundreds of minor beliefs/religions.
To be fair, class would never start, simply because after hundreds of prayers, time would run out.
"What did you learn today, honey"
"Something about parting 974 million gallons of water in some sea and putting a goat on an alter and then setting it on fire."

The solution would be to have a brief moment of individual silent prayer or reflection.

In my Catholic Grammar School, every morning started with both Prayer & the Pledge of Allegiance. It was a wonderful way to start the day!
 

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Let's remember that at the time, *Catholics* were widely distrusted and disliked in the country, so that it was a big hurdle for JFK to overcome as the first Catholic president. And that Catholics on the Supreme Court were so rare, that only 15 have ever been on the court - with 7 of the fifteen on it now (one "Anglican/Catholic") because of the Republicans desire for overturning Roe.
 

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Then as now, there were people who agreed and people who disagreed. It fell on JFK to react to the Supreme Court ruling. He said that as a civil matter the Supreme Court needed to be followed, but there was an easy solution, for parents to increase their religious practices as church and home. That's where it's been since, and should have remained, as the three legitimate Justices ruled.



This video reminded me how much I liked JFK!
 

Craig234

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In my Catholic Grammar School, every morning started with both Prayer & the Pledge of Allegiance. It was a wonderful way to start the day!
But not for *public* schools, with children being raised Muslim, Hindu, agnostic and other religions subjected to protestant 'official' prayer, legally required and paid for by tax dollars of every religion.
 

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Let's remember that at the time, *Catholics* were widely distrusted and disliked in the country, so that it was a big hurdle for JFK to overcome as the first Catholic president. And that Catholics on the Supreme Court were so rare, that only 15 have ever been on the court - with 7 of the fifteen on it now (one "Anglican/Catholic") because of the Republicans desire for overturning Roe.

But let's not forget Catholics have assimilated from immigrant cultures, to mainstream society, and eventually leadership positions, in no small part due to their penchant for education.
 

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But not for *public* schools, with children being raised Muslim, Hindu, agnostic and other religions subjected to protestant 'official' prayer, legally required and paid for by tax dollars of every religion.

'Not', what? Silent personal prayer or reflection is universal.
 

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As the majority opinion deftly pointed out - it was absurd of the dissent to base its argument on the very same Lemon test that the Court unanimously rejected earlier in this same term in Shurtleff v. City of Boston.

 

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because society is not yet comfortable with them coming out of their closet?

The solution would be to have a brief moment of individual silent prayer or reflection.

In my Catholic Grammar School, every morning started with both Prayer & the Pledge of Allegiance. It was a wonderful way to start the day!
We disagree some. Silent prayer would be fine but I (personally) don't like the Pledge. My thoughts are: I've already said the Pledge..what?..you didn't
believe me the first time? No big deal..I could live with that. I went to Catholic school also, they threw me out after 2 years.
"You ask too many questions" (Something about the Virgin Mary...I didn't buy it)
 

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'Not', what? Silent personal prayer or reflection is universal.

"Silent personal" and teacher-led class are two different things. Were you saying you 'started the day' silently reciting the pledge of allegiance alone?
 

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Then the mass shootings started
 

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A lot of parents certainly didn't want prayers in the classroom. I mean, there's seven major religions and hundreds of minor beliefs/religions.
To be fair, class would never start, simply because after hundreds of prayers, time would run out.
And yet as society there are prayers in the chambers of congress, as well as "In God We Trust", as well as postings of the 10 Commandments.

"What did you learn today, honey"
"Something about parting 974 million gallons of water in some sea and putting a goat on an alter and then setting it on fire."

Since Yoga is a form of Eastern religious meditation, why isn't that banned in pubic schools as well?
 

Craig234

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My thoughts are: I've already said the Pledge..what?..you didn't believe me the first time?

There's some power psychologically in having groups 'recite' things in rituals. It might be a class saying the pledge of allegiance daily for years, a 'team huddle' before every game with a cheer repeated, Nazis no doubt had them, trump rallies chanting slogans like "Lock her up", rock concerts where singers have the crowd sing lines they know, Wal-Mart stores requiring employees to gather daily and recite a 'Wal-Mart pledge', etc.

I recall seeing a private location in a Tijuana police station where over a dozen officers were gathered into a circle, and reciting some sort of team cheer or something I couldn't understand, but appearing intended as some sort of cohesion building ritual.

There are cheers everyone is required to say for things like royalty.

It is an issue about power and freedom, and it was a good thing to keep church and state separate not having school-led prayer, despite public demands for it from people who didn't give a crap about 'rights of people with other religions' or the principles involved.
 

j brown's body

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JFK. It's funny people were concerned he'd be beholden to the Catholic Church. Now, with the Supreme Court, it's practically a requirement.
 

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Those who stand for the light became complacent at the illusion of progress. Some of them did things like decide things were safe so they could be above it all and not meaningfully vote against Trump in 2016 (aka an unpalatable vote for Hillary). That's how Trump got to sit 3. That's how Roe got shitcanned and more is coming. Complacency manifests in many ways, and it has a cost. Humanity always averages out to 3 steps forward, 2.999 steps back. We're now taking a thousand steps back.

Nothing is safe. Ever.
 

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And yet as society there are prayers in the chambers of congress, as well as "In God We Trust", as well as postings of the 10 Commandments.



Since Yoga is a form of Eastern religious meditation, why isn't that banned in pubic schools as well?
I'm against prayers in the chambers of congress and certainly don't like the "In God we trust" thing.
Yoga is fairly harmless and doesn't beat you over the head with it.
 

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We disagree some. Silent prayer would be fine but I (personally) don't like the Pledge.

I think the Pledge is a great idea, to be honest. Ditto for a substantive bon fide Civics class!

Just as prayer (or reflection) sets our mind for the day in personal terms, the Pledge sets the tone for the day in civic terms.

My thoughts are: I've already said the Pledge..what?..you didn't
believe me the first time? No big deal..I could live with that. I went to Catholic school also, they threw me out after 2 years.
"You ask too many questions" (Something about the Virgin Mary...I didn't buy it)

That's not unusual. Not all can conform to the homogeneity of Catholic education.

I will say though, it took me quite a few years to appreciate my Catholic School education, and my kids went through the same experience.
 

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JFK. It's funny people were concerned he'd be beholden to the Catholic Church. Now, with the Supreme Court, it's practically a requirement.
The thing is, it's not even about 'beholden to the Catholic Church' now, it's about beholden to right-wing American political ideology. The abortion issue has some overlap with the Catholic Church, but it's not as if Pope Francis is issuing orders to the Justices, which was the fear with JFK. Of course the most important 'beholden' issue in US politics is the Republican Party totally beholden to the rich. The court takeover is just about their pursuit of power over democracy.
 

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"Silent personal" and teacher-led class are two different things. Were you saying you 'started the day' silently reciting the pledge of allegiance alone?

Ours was said out-loud in unison. We were a private homogenous group.

For public schools, I'm advocating a brief period of silence, to be used as one desires. I think this would work for everyone. Straight-up, whether one choses prayer or not, starting one's day with a period of reflection is a great way to focus one's mind for the upcoming day.

I still do it, 'till today! Do it right, and you have focus for the day - rather than going through your day in a reactionary manner, as we often may do. It's actually empowering! Try it, if you haven't! (y)
 

Craig234

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I'm against prayers in the chambers of congress and certainly don't like the "In God we trust" thing.

Let's remember the roots of it - Republicans did it in the fifties, when they were flaming the flames of the red scare, as a way of promoting the US's support for religion against Communist atheism, as well as a 'popular measure' to get votes, what today is called 'virtue signaling'. Oppose it, and you must be pro-commie and hate religion! They won elections with that.
 

Craig234

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For public schools, I'm advocating a brief period of silence, to be used as one desires. I think this would work for everyone. Straight-up, whether one choses prayer or not, starting one's day with a period of reflection is a great way to focus one's mind for the upcoming day.

You weren't at all clear about that. You talked about religious school prayer, I said not for public schools, then you changed it to 'silent and personal' as if you had never mentions group recitation, and now finally we're to your suggestion of 'moment of silence'. I'm against *that* in that there are plenty of chances for it, and it's sort of a waste of resources. YOU MUST SEND YOUR CHILD TO AN EXPENSIVE CLASS TO SIT DOING NOTHING, BY LAW.
 

Craig234

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Ditto for a substantive bon fide Civics class!

That, I'm for, but now I'm wary if it's designed by the radical right. Who knows what they'd teach as civics?
 
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