A look at the ongoing "Islamification" of France

[ric27]

The Church never condoned their actions but plenty of priests facilitated their needs.

Quite possible and isolated...

The core question is.....Was, the IRA acting in the name of The Church or with the Pope's blessing? Did, the IRA ever expressed a goal of uniting Ireland under the Church? ...Or has the IRA ever claimed to act as an agent of the Church?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Excuse me....Does the IRA even identify itself as Catholic? I don't see the term Catholic anywhere in "Irish Republican Army". Has the Church condoned the actions of the IRA?

Get off your Partido Comunista de España (PCE) and do some serious reading. You might learn something

Moderator's Warning:

Stop the personal attacks.

 

[expandmymind]

Quite possible and isolated...

The core question is.....Was, the IRA acting in the name of The Church or with the Pope's blessing? Did, the IRA ever expressed a goal of uniting Ireland under the Church? ...Or has the IRA ever claimed to act as an agent of the Church?

No, they abused the religion for recruitment purposes and justification for their actions in the same way as Islamic extremists abuse Islam. You don't believe that Islam has in any way condoned the actions of terrorists, do you?

 

[gunner]

Excuse me....Does the IRA even identify itself as Catholic? I don't see the term Catholic anywhere in "Irish Republican Army". Has the Church condoned the actions of the IRA?

Get off your Partido Comunista de España (PCE) and do some serious reading. You might learn something

Many members of the PIRA confessed their sins [terrorist atrocities] to the church. How many Catholic priests reported the confessor to the police?

Paul

 

[rathi]

Even if a Muslim doesn't believe in committing terrorist acts, they won't side with an infidel against a fellow Muslim. That my issue

Except of course the Northern Alliance, the governments of Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia in the war on terror. Or the Arab tribes allied with the British against the Ottomans. Or Saddam siding with the U.S. against Iran. Or the Shah siding with the U.S. and Britain against. Mosaddegh. Want to try again?

 

[expandmymind]

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

About 100 different condemnations at that link.

The next few linked, are in the original link but not part of the 100.

Tom Friedman is a Middle East expert who knows a lot about Islam. Why, then, does he keep saying misleading things? He wrote in his latest column, “To this day – to this day – no major Muslim cleric or religious body has ever issued a fatwa condemning Osama bin Laden.”

Informed Comment


How American Muslims Really Responded to September 11

How American Muslims Really Responded to September 11 (by Riad Z. Abdelkarim & Jason Erb) - Media Monitors Network

The Myth of Muslim Condemnation of Terror

The amount of disinformation about Muslims is disconcerting. One popular smear is that Muslims are in an alliance with the left to take over the West; it is an allegation that far right loves to use.

The other, equally popular and equally absurd, idea is that Muslims do not condemn terrorism. This too makes its way into culture from the right (though judging by comments to my last post, its diffused to some members of the left). Though it is subtler, and argues from insinuation, it is no less pernicious. The implication is that every Muslim in the world who doesn't engage in terrorism is nevertheless a latent supporter, or enabler, of terrorism because he doesn't make loud proclamations against it.

Full article: Ali Eteraz: The Myth of Muslim Condemnation of Terror I suggest those who believe that Muslims or Islam in any way supports terror read this.

And there's also this:

Islamic Statements Against Terrorism

Statements Against Terror

Quite a few in there too.

And a nice little find about verses (often misquoted) in the Qur'an relating to killing and violence:

The Qur'an commands Muslims to stick up for themselves in a defensive battle -- i.e. if an enemy army attacks, then Muslims are to fight against that army until they stop their aggression. All of the verses that speak about fighting/war in the Qur'an are in this context.

There are some specific verses that are very often "snipped" out of context, either by critics of Islam discussing "jihadism," or by misguided Muslims themselves who wish to justify their aggressive tactics.

Islam - Verses of Qur'an That Condone "Killing the Infidel"?


There is no excuse for anyone to hold the ignorant view that 'Muslims' or Islam in any way support terror. Especially on an internet forum, where the information is the just a click of the mouse away.

This is simply bigotry.

 

[ric27]

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

About 100 different condemnations at that link.

The next few linked, are in the original link but not part of the 100.

Tom Friedman is a Middle East expert who knows a lot about Islam. Why, then, does he keep saying misleading things? He wrote in his latest column, “To this day – to this day – no major Muslim cleric or religious body has ever issued a fatwa condemning Osama bin Laden.”

Informed Comment


How American Muslims Really Responded to September 11

How American Muslims Really Responded to September 11 (by Riad Z. Abdelkarim & Jason Erb) - Media Monitors Network

The Myth of Muslim Condemnation of Terror



Full article: Ali Eteraz: The Myth of Muslim Condemnation of Terror I suggest those who believe that Muslims or Islam in any way supports terror read this.

And there's also this:

Islamic Statements Against Terrorism

Statements Against Terror

Quite a few in there too.

And a nice little find about verses (often misquoted) in the Qur'an relating to killing and violence:



Islam - Verses of Qur'an That Condone "Killing the Infidel"?


There is no excuse for anyone to hold the ignorant view that 'Muslims' or Islam in any way support terror. Especially on an internet forum, where the information is the just a click of the mouse away.

This is simply bigotry.

On the other hand, while there have been Muslim clerics who have denounced terrorist acts, they have all hedged their bets. Depending on who is being attacked, they say it is ok. That opinion is supported by, rather than refuted by their source documents, i.e. the Koran. A further difference is support among the populace. As long as Islamic terrorists limit their attacks to "infidels", they have almost universal support and aid among the Islamic community. Only when they start hitting other Muslims (Sunni killing Sunni, Shi'a killing Shi'a) do they lose that community support.

 

[expandmymind]

On the other hand, while there have been Muslim clerics who have denounced terrorist acts, they have all hedged their bets. Depending on who is being attacked, they say it is ok. That opinion is supported by, rather than refuted by their source documents, i.e. the Koran. A further difference is support among the populace. As long as Islamic terrorists limit their attacks to "infidels", they have almost universal support and aid among the Islamic community. Only when they start hitting other Muslims (Sunni killing Sunni, Shi'a killing Shi'a) do they lose that community support.

Nothing* about this is accurate and I can see you did not check out my links for they clearly refute every claim. How can you honestly continue to debate when you don't even consider the argument presented to you? Literally nothing you have just stated is true *except the first half of the first sentence, which you then went on to reverse with the second half of it. Jesus, you reference the Qur'an as proof.

It is clear you are set in your ways. You attribute the tiny minority as being the voice of about 1.3 billion people. This is horrible. Simply.

I'm willing to bet you don't even know a Muslim.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

You don't believe that Islam has in any way condoned the actions of terrorists, do you?

Muhammad said "I have been made victorious through terror", with verse after verse in the Koran exhorting terror to be cast in the hearts of the unbelievers (in particular Jews).

Belief is one thing whilst fact is another. Taquiyya gets terribly boring.

 

[Grant]

No, they abused the religion for recruitment purposes and justification for their actions in the same way as Islamic extremists abuse Islam. You don't believe that Islam has in any way condoned the actions of terrorists, do you?

What I usually see are Muslims making excuses for Islamic terrorism. These are called "moderates".

Those brave enough to condemn it, usually women, have their lives threatened.

 

[Grant]

Muhammad said "I have been made victorious through terror", with verse after verse in the Koran exhorting terror to be cast in the hearts of the unbelievers (in particular Jews).

Belief is one thing whilst fact is another. Taquiyya gets terribly boring.

It is the only religion I know of where lying is not only accepted, it's encouraged.

Hence their reputation.

 

[Grant]

Huh?
Why would a different word for adultery matter?

Actually we do ... hence why we are 'moderates' and they are 'radicals'

Do you note the key word difference? No? Let me make it bold so it stands out.

I noticed you were very quick to attack the Catholic religion on another thread Laila, and you were very immoderate about it.

I think most people would feel safer meeting up with a group of Catholics in a dark alley than a group of Muslims.

 

[Grant]

http://downloads.cbn.com/cbnnewsplayer/cbnplayer.swf?aid=17933

There will either be a civil war in Western Europe or it will go Muslim.

Freedom and Islam are not compatible.

 

[rathi]

I think most people would feel safer meeting up with a group of Catholics in a dark alley than a group of Muslims.

Only a coward would fear either.

 

[PeteEU]

Excuse me....Does the IRA even identify itself as Catholic? I don't see the term Catholic anywhere in "Irish Republican Army". Has the Church condoned the actions of the IRA?

The whole conflict is along religious lines for god sake. The divided areas in Northern Ireland go along religious grounds.... dont even try to deny it haha.. The IRA uses religion as a recruiting tool and as a reason for the whole conflict in the first place. IRA and IRA backers are all catholic, and those on the other side are not.

 

[Ben K.]

The whole conflict is along religious lines for god sake. The divided areas in Northern Ireland go along religious grounds.... dont even try to deny it haha.. The IRA uses religion as a recruiting tool and as a reason for the whole conflict in the first place. IRA and IRA backers are all catholic, and those on the other side are not.

Erm, no. Even the Protestant son of a Loyalist friend of Ian Paisley was an INLA member. And no, the IRA didn't identify itself as Catholic. It's ridiculous to compare the two ideologies. One is commits crimes in the name of socialist seperatism and one commits crimes demanding religious conversion or submission.

 

[expandmymind]

Muhammad said "I have been made victorious through terror", with verse after verse in the Koran exhorting terror to be cast in the hearts of the unbelievers (in particular Jews).

Belief is one thing whilst fact is another. Taquiyya gets terribly boring.

This is about as abstract as someone quoting the Torah as proof of something against Jews. Do you really want me to provide references that show what God says about Gentiles?

 

[expandmymind]

What I usually see are Muslims making excuses for Islamic terrorism. These are called "moderates".

Those brave enough to condemn it, usually women, have their lives threatened.

Apart from the few cases that are spewed all over the media, this statement has no basis in reality.

There will either be a civil war in Western Europe or it will go Muslim.

Freedom and Islam are not compatible.

As I've said before, the parallels you could draw between the propaganda and lies regarding Muslims and the propaganda and lies regarding Jews before WW2 are blatantly obvious.

Racist and bigoted views with no basis in fact and the road we are headed down is a VERY dangerous one.

There isn't really much point in me continuing to debate with someone so detached from the reality of the situation, especially when that person doesn't even consider ANY evidence presented.

 

[Manc Skipper]

I noticed you were very quick to attack the Catholic religion on another thread Laila, and you were very immoderate about it.

I think most people would feel safer meeting up with a group of Catholics in a dark alley than a group of Muslims.

In Belfast? Not necessarily.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

As I said, Europe has become tired, soft, unwilling to fight for what they have. The needed our protection from the USSR following WWII, but they grew dependent on it. For all those reasons, I don't think they will mount an effective fight to save themselves from Islam.

Again, if you fail to defend your culture, beliefs, and society aginst this predatory and aggressive medieval cult, then you don't deserve to exist as free men. Anything that you cannot (or will not) protect, isn't going to remain yours for long.

Well - if you opened a history book every now and then you'd find that Europe has been a melting pot for religious unrest for countless centuries. . . they HAVE always fought for what htey felt was worth protecting.

They fought against witchcraft - killing thousands.
The Protestants, Calvanists, and Lutherans fought against the Catholic Church - killing hundreds of thousands.
The Catholic church, in turn, fought against all of them - killing hundreds of thousands more.
They all fought against the Turks (defeated at Lapanto - ring a bell?) Killing thousands.
They fought the Russians, English, they even traveled afar and picked some fights in the Middle East

All this fighting is what shaped modern-day Europe - the Treaty of Westphallia which ended the 30-years War is what defined many modern-day borders Including the divided Germany which led to the unrest and wars in WWI and WWII. . .

They fought against the nazi - killing millions
The Nazis fought against them first, of course - killing millions.

And this is just the last 500 years worth of fighting for those religious, cultural and social 'things' that make them 'US'

All the fighting, excommunicating, beheading and burning at the stake that the Catholic church did to quell the Protestant upheaval - only just killed a bunch of people. In the end a lot of people became Protestants anyway and they ended up having to recognize the Protestants, Calvanists, Lutherans and everyone else, anyway, as official religions in their own rights.

What have we learned?
Well - what should we be learning by examining history?

Is that when you attack a religious people for their beliefs and try to run them out of town - people tend to become *more* firm in that faith. *more* headstrong believers and fight *more* viciously to protect what they believe to be divine truth and 'absolutely right'

The 30 year was was so thoroughly devastating we have NO numbers over how many people were killed - and it happened after a hundred years of religious quelling and upheval had already divided the country and devastated it quite thoroughly. If the Catholic Church had just said "ok - please feel free to worship God as you see fit' NONE of that would have happened.

After all this **** - in just the last 500 years.
maybe - just maybe - they're just sick and tired of fighting against what will inevitably happen anyway?

 

[spud_meister]

I think most people would feel safer meeting up with a group of Catholics in a dark alley than a group of Muslims.

I wouldn't take any children with me if I was meeting with catholics. :mrgreen:

 

[Aunt Spiker]

I wouldn't take any children with me if I was meeting with catholics. :mrgreen:

LOL - I'd be equally hated. . . what's worse - a burning or a stoning?

 

[Grant]

Only a coward would fear either.

I never said "fear", I said feel safer.

Keep in mind that it is Muslims shooting nuns in the back, setting off explosives among innocent people and, when they aren't rioting, setting fires and destroying property, they're mooning everyone else.

 

[Grant]

I wouldn't take any children with me if I was meeting with catholics. :mrgreen:

That didn't take long!

 

[spud_meister]

That didn't take long!

That's what the kid said.

(I'm sorry, I had to)