A Liberals Attempt to Understand Conservative Beliefs

[Fruityfact]

Ah, this is news to me. They are the favorite, interesting, i wonder why they think that? It's not going to be Biden, Or Kamala Harris, Or Warren. If Bernie is the nominee, maybe.

Because trump is a historically garbage president who is underwater in a decent economy?

 

[RBIII]

Because trump is a historically garbage president who is underwater in a decent economy?

Naaah that's not it, has to be something else.

 

[Fruityfact]

Naaah that's not it, has to be something else.

LOL you can live in conservatopia all you want. He's a historically unpopular president in a good economy.

 

[RBIII]

LOL you can live in conservatopia all you want. He's a historically unpopular president in a good economy.

Yeah, because whats popular is usually stupid, so that doesn't say much.

Lady Gaga is popular, Taylor Swift is popular, Violent Hip Hop and Misogynistic music is popular, Real housewives of wherever the**** is popular, a show called Scandal is popular, a show called Lucifer is popular. So being unpopular isn't inherently bad.

 

[Fruityfact]

Yeah, because whats popular is usually stupid, so that doesn't say much.

Lady Gaga is popular, Taylor Swift is popular, Violent Hip Hop and Misogynistic music is popular, Real housewives of wherever the**** is popular, a show called Scandal is popular, a show called Lucifer is popular. So being unpopular isn't inherently bad.

He's also an unindicted co-conspirator in a number of crimes. And stupid lol

 

[RBIII]

He's also an unindicted co-conspirator in a number of crimes. And stupid lol

Like most wealthy politicians? I agree

 

[Fruityfact]

Like most wealthy politicians? I agree

Nope. That's a pretty pathetic excuse. It's okay to be a murder because some other characters are murderers(without proof) LOL. Stupid votes for stupid.

 

[RBIII]

Nope. That's a pretty pathetic excuse. It's okay to be a murder because some other characters are murderers(without proof) LOL. Stupid votes for stupid.

It's not an excuse, its a fact

We not talking about murder though or are we?

 

[Fruityfact]

It's not an excuse, its a fact

We not talking about murder though or are we?

Care to posts some facts? You wouldn't know those if they hit ya in the face: i'm sure no trump supporter knows what a fact is: that is a fact.
It was an example for those who are feeble minded.

 

[Sabre]

BFD.
Keep on, I'll await your continuance on this frivolity that you apparently enjoy wallowing in.

Ya gotta long wait my friend. Tata :2wave:

 

[RBIII]

Care to posts some facts? You wouldn't know those if they hit ya in the face: i'm sure no trump supporter knows what a fact is: that is a fact.
It was an example for those who are feeble minded.

Here's a fact, Juanita Broderick accused bill Clinton of rape, with very specific details in a location that still exist, this claim was dismissed and she was called a liar by Hillary Clinton.

The left doesn't like these facts though do they?

 

[Fruityfact]

Here's a fact, Juanita Broderick accused bill Clinton of rape, with very specific details in a location that still exist, this claim was dismissed and she was called a liar by Hillary Clinton.

The left doesn't like these facts though do they?

Fake news lol

 

[Moderate Right]

One of the main reasons I joined this forum is to better understand conservatives, particularly those who continue to support Mr. Trump.

Is it true Trump supporters believe:

• Mueller is driven primarily, if not solely by partisan motives
• The intelligence community is in the bag for Democrats
• Mr. Trump is getting rid of corruption in Washington
• There is nothing wrong with wanting to retain business interests while being President
• Even if Mr. Trump was negotiating a business deal with Russians while running for President, that's just business
• America is now respected, no longer reviled as it was during the Obama Presidency
• Mr. Trump's gut is superior to a bunch of climate nerd scientists' science
• There's nothing wrong with getting along with Putin. As a matter of fact, it's a plus
• Mr. Trump got the best of Kim Jong Un
• There's nothing wrong with the ever changing positions Trump takes on the Mueller findings
• Federal Election laws are a joke and breaking them is a "process crime."
• Mr. Trump is "the least racist person there is" and a strong supporter of women
• Mr. Trump hires the best people to be in his administration
• Mr. Trump's transgressions, if real, are no worse than perpetrated by Democrats
• The Democrats are influencing the justice department and intelligence community by setting "perjury traps" and pressuring people like Cohen, Papadapoulus, Flynn and others into making up fake stories that implicate Mr. Trump
• Mr. Trump, as President, should never have to face legal charges

This is what I'm concluding are some of his supporters core beliefs. Trump supporters, am I correct? Did I leave anything out.

1. Mueller was appointed by conservatives and most conservatives support Mueller

2. Obama appointed his own people to intelligence agencies who in turn hired their own people. Many of these people have attacked Trump. AKA the deep state.

3. I don't think most conservatives believe that Trump is getting rid of corruption. The swamp was so big that when you get rid of one who is corrupt the only people left to replace that person are corrupt. And, it kind of depends on your definition of corrupt. And, elected politicians who are corrupt can't be replaced by Trump.

4. Fact is voters knew Trump had very deep business roots when they voted for him. They are more interested in what Trump does for the country than all of his roots that would be virtually impossible to cut.

5. "Even if Mr. Trump was negotiating a business deal with Russians while running for President, that's just business". Very well said.

6. Depends on how you look at it. During Obama's years and before other countries ran roughshod over the US and took advantage of us in many ways. Of course they don't like it when the US starts standing up for ourselves.

7. Global temps are rising. No matter what we do, that will still be the case. The left magically thinks that we can single handedly stop global temps from rising. Even with the Paris accord, all it did was limit the amount of global temp increases, not decrease global temps. The Paris accord unfairly made the US the scapegoat in shouldering more than our share. China is cheating big time. The left want to usher in the Green New Deal at a cost of 93 trillion dollars, saying that that is just the beginning. Spending that much money is insane.

8. Well, antagonizing Putin probably isn't going to work. Obama talked with our arch enemy Iran.

9. Most conservatives don't believe Trump got the best with Kim Jong Un. They also don't believe that Obama or any of his predecessors did either.

10. The Mueller findings exonerated Trump. I don't believe he's ever changed his position on that.

11. Election laws are a joke. Too many people vote who are not eligible.

12. The left spins and twists Trump into the most racist person in the world.

13. Well, he tries. He certainly doesn't hire liberals.

14. Pretty much true. The Republican House voted to impeach Bill Clinton and the Democratic Senate didn't impeach. Now the Democratic House wants to impeach Trump and the Republican Senate probably won't impeach Trump.

15. The Mueller report didn't find any of these things.

16. Well, first off, most conservatives don't believe that, BUT it is DOJ policy since before Trump that you can't indict a sitting president.

 

[ultmd]

Here's a fact, Juanita Broderick accused bill Clinton of rape, with very specific details in a location that still exist, this claim was dismissed and she was called a liar by Hillary Clinton.

The left doesn't like these facts though do they?

:lamo
WRONG!

Either you are lying, or you are just another fake news ideologue. Either way, you just proved his point. You really wouldn't know a fact from a hole in your head.

The FACTS about Juanita Broaddrick are that she sworn, under oath, that Clinton never touched her....then recanted while insisting that she was never coerced into lying about it the first time...then refused to cooperate with investigators or file charges...then gave an interview in which she claimed that Bill Clinton actually raped her.

Her claim were NEVER "dismissed". It was she who refused to cooperate with investigators.

The only FACT you offered was that she was called a liar by Bill Clinton's wife. Hardly an uncalled for accusation from the wife of a politician after a victim recants a sworn statement denying an incident. Everything else was just more fake-news ignorance on your part....AND....totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

 

[RBIII]

:lamo
WRONG!

Either you are lying, or you are just another fake news ideologue. Either way, you just proved his point. You really wouldn't know a fact from a hole in your head.

The FACTS about Juanita Broaddrick are that she sworn, under oath, that Clinton never touched her....then recanted while insisting that she was never coerced into lying about it the first time...then refused to cooperate with investigators or file charges...then gave an interview in which she claimed that Bill Clinton actually raped her.

Her claim were NEVER "dismissed". It was she who refused to cooperate with investigators.

The only FACT you offered was that she was called a liar by Bill Clinton's wife. Hardly an uncalled for accusation from the wife of a politician after a victim recants a sworn statement denying an incident. Everything else was just more fake-news ignorance on your part....AND....totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Sounds like the actions of someone who may have had death threats?

 

[ultmd]

1. I commented on Mr. Wonka because his sense of assurance in his conclusions and resulting feelings of moral superiority are so very typical of the self righteous, tongue clucking left. We expect them to make harsh pronouncements against us because they see any opposition to any of their ideas as a moral failing. All authoritarians think this way and the left is nothing at heart if not authoritarian.

• --Based upon everything we've seen from you alt-right types and from him, he IS morally superior to you (and people like you).
• --Stop the pathetic victimhood stuff. Most people don't object to opposing points of view; they object to ignorance, studity and bigotry being DISGUISED as "conservative/family values" and "Christian" convictions and "patriotism", etc. etc. So it's pathetic when people like you whine, complain and claim perpetual "victimhood" whenever someone criticizes your views.
• --Sorry, but Trump acolytes are not allowed to accuse ANYONE else of "authoritarianism". You need to crack open a history text, and start reading.

2. Right, a bunch of eggheads who voted 99% for Hillary Clinton got together and decided that Trump voters are baaaaaddddd. Yea, I'm convinced.:lol:

Stupid comment. Typical....but still really stupid.

What makes you think that EVERY study showing that you and your Trump-cult ilk were primarily motivated by racial and cultural resentment in the 2016 election....is an "egghead" Clinton supporter? See, it's these kinds of IDIOTIC remarks that demonstrate why so many people view right winger as anti-intellectual retards. Of course, we both know that if you could refute the published research, you would. But you can't. So you attack it instead. That's very Stalin-esque of you, comrade.

. You seem to think you know quite a bit about me when you don't know anything. "Race and culture" have never factored into my voting for 45 years, nor have I illustrated any such sentiments in this forum. My Mom's a first generation immigrant and I married a first generation immigrant from Latin America.

Of course race and/or culture factor into your political ideology. You demonstrate that, in some form, on this board almost daily. Thanks for the biography, but if you think that proves you're not a right wing culture warrior, you're just proving my point. Take it from someone whose roots in this country date back over 300 years...you really don't understand much about race, racism and the roles race plays in American culture today.

So, you simply make pronouncements based, much like Mr. Wonka, on what the MSM has fed you and you have swallowed whole. The proof of this is that most legal immigrants both oppose illegal immigration and think we should reduce immigration overall. I guess they're all racists and skinheads, too.

That's a pretty standard FauxNews talking point, there. But the FACT is that EVERYONE opposes illegal immigration. The fact that you have been brainwashed into believing otherwise, indicates to me that you are no longer capable of thinking rationally about this issue. The other FACT here is that most American latinos do NOT believe that immigraiton should be reduced. Perhaps your wife and her family are among that MINORTITY of all latinos (which is about 25%, btw). In FACT, the VAST MAJORITY of U.S. latinos (i.e. about 75%) believe that immigration should either be increased or maintained at current levels. PewHispanic Poll: Views of Immigration

4. Hillary lost because she's unlikable, ran a crap, lazy campaign and couldn't sell any of her ideas. Plain and simple.

Dumb response. I said NOTHING about how or why Clinton lost the election. I simply pointed out that you were being grossly deceptive by taking that portion of a quote from her completely out of context. Clearly, you're deflecting because you know you were wrong. This is a consistent pattern with you.

5. I don't have an obsession with foreign migrants...I would include as part of the effort, cracking down on visa overstays as well as those employing illegal aliens. I've said this numerous times yet you keep ignoring it so you can return to your same tired mantra.

Clearly, you DO obsess about the issue of illegal immigration. You're a right winger. It's part of who you are. If you support a border wall, you're one of "them". If you support deportation of 15 million people, you are one of "them". If you oppose DACA or citizenship for people who have lived, worked and paid taxes for decades in this country, you are one of "them". Sorry if that causes you to engage in another one of your white grievance rants, but it's the truth.

 

[ultmd]

Sounds like the actions of someone who may have had death threats?

Perhaps...especially in the mind of a conservative conspiracy theorist.

We already know, for a fact, that Trump's personal attorneys intimidated and threatened Trump's former sidepieces. We have 23 CREDIBLE women giving public accounts of Trump assaulting them, and offering to do so under penalty of perjury. So, tell me, why are you not nearly as concerned about them, huh?

Regardless, it is beyond DUMB for any of you Trump acolytes to bring up a Bill Clinton accuser in light of the 23 credible accusers (and counting) who have publicly outed Donald Trump for numerous sexual assault/rape/intimidation incidents. Let us all know when you good Trump acolytes are able to find a stripper/porn star who had paid sex with Bill Clinton.....for years...while Hillary was pregnant with (and then nursing) Chelsea Clinton. OK? Until then, blaming Hillary Clinton for what Bill Clinton did...and then equating Bill Clinton will always be a losing argument for you guys.

 

[RBIII]

Perhaps...especially in the mind of a conservative conspiracy theorist.

We already know, for a fact, that Trump's personal attorneys intimidated and threatened Trump's former sidepieces. We have 23 CREDIBLE women giving public accounts of Trump assaulting them, and offering to do so under penalty of perjury. So, tell me, why are you not nearly as concerned about them, huh?

Regardless, it is beyond DUMB for any of you Trump acolytes to bring up a Bill Clinton accuser in light of the 23 credible accusers (and counting) who have publicly outed Donald Trump for numerous sexual assault/rape/intimidation incidents. Let us all know when you good Trump acolytes are able to find a stripper/porn star who had paid sex with Bill Clinton.....for years...while Hillary was pregnant with (and then nursing) Chelsea Clinton. OK? Until then, blaming Hillary Clinton for what Bill Clinton did...and then equating Bill Clinton will always be a losing argument for you guys.

Uh, what 23 girls? Give me the names, ill look up each one

 

[veritas1]

• --Based upon everything we've seen from you alt-right types and from him, he IS morally superior to you (and people like you).
• --Stop the pathetic victimhood stuff. Most people don't object to opposing points of view; they object to ignorance, studity and bigotry being DISGUISED as "conservative/family values" and "Christian" convictions and "patriotism", etc. etc. So it's pathetic when people like you whine, complain and claim perpetual "victimhood" whenever someone criticizes your views.
• --Sorry, but Trump acolytes are not allowed to accuse ANYONE else of "authoritarianism". You need to crack open a history text, and start reading.

Stupid comment. Typical....but still really stupid.

What makes you think that EVERY study showing that you and your Trump-cult ilk were primarily motivated by racial and cultural resentment in the 2016 election....is an "egghead" Clinton supporter? See, it's these kinds of IDIOTIC remarks that demonstrate why so many people view right winger as anti-intellectual retards. Of course, we both know that if you could refute the published research, you would. But you can't. So you attack it instead. That's very Stalin-esque of you, comrade.



Of course race and/or culture factor into your political ideology. You demonstrate that, in some form, on this board almost daily. Thanks for the biography, but if you think that proves you're not a right wing culture warrior, you're just proving my point. Take it from someone whose roots in this country date back over 300 years...you really don't understand much about race, racism and the roles race plays in American culture today.


That's a pretty standard FauxNews talking point, there. But the FACT is that EVERYONE opposes illegal immigration. The fact that you have been brainwashed into believing otherwise, indicates to me that you are no longer capable of thinking rationally about this issue. The other FACT here is that most American latinos do NOT believe that immigraiton should be reduced. Perhaps your wife and her family are among that MINORTITY of all latinos (which is about 25%, btw). In FACT, the VAST MAJORITY of U.S. latinos (i.e. about 75%) believe that immigration should either be increased or maintained at current levels. PewHispanic Poll: Views of Immigration


.

1. Of course you think you and Mr. Wonka and every other leftist is morally superior to any conservative. You'd hardly be a leftist without thinking that. It informs all you say and do. All your posts reek of it.

2. Your "research" is simply stuff done in order to arrive at a pre-conceived conclusion. It has no value. Any serious examination would show that Trump won for a myriad of reasons, not primarily the resentments you like to talk about endlessly.

3. Show me all the posts where "race/culture" are factoring into my ideology. You can't produce one because you have no clue what you are talking about. You're just talking. And don't give me that 300 years stuff. My ancestors on my father's side came here in the 1600's.

4. I wasn't talking about Latinos. I never mentioned Latinos. I said LEGAL immigrants.

5. Hillary lost W. Virginia by 42%. I guess the voters there "took her out of context", too.:mrgreen:

6. Yes, I oppose illegal immigration. I oppose it because I support THE LAW. It's also why I support building the wall, amending our laws and getting rid of sanctuary cities. It's why I support going after visa overstays and punishing employers hiring illegal aliens. It's why I support an expansion of legal guest worker programs. We need to return the system to one of being controlled and orderly. That is best both for our citizens, who should be the primary concern, and for the would-be immigrants to our country. The status quo is unacceptable. Over 1 million people will try to sneak into the country this year and, probably, two thirds will succeed. If you oppose measures to stop that then you support a continuation of the current immigration chaos. Lets' get a handle on that and then we can decide IF anyone is getting deported or not.

 

[ultmd]

1. Of course you think you and Mr. Wonka and every other leftist is morally superior to any conservative. You'd hardly be a leftist without thinking that. It informs all you say and do. All your posts reek of it.

Not every conservative. Hardly. Just conservatives like you. Don't malign every conservative by equating them with you and your ilk. Right wingers like you frequently resort to "group" outrage, when in reality, it's just them (and a few who are like them). Perceptive people recognize it as a sign of weakness.

2. Your "research" is simply stuff done in order to arrive at a pre-conceived conclusion. It has no value. Any serious examination would show that Trump won for a myriad of reasons, not primarily the resentments you like to talk about endlessly.

:lamo
It's hardly "my" research. Next, what the hell do you know about "serious" reseach, anyway, huh? It is abundantly CLEAR that you wouldn't understand it if you ever bothered to read it. It's really rather pathetic when people like you offer up empty-headed declarative statements/judgments (like the above) when EVERYONE knows that you haven't even read a word about the research you are condemning. What the anti-science knuckleheads don't understand is that SCIENCE is not like business. There is no political bias involved. Opinions are guided by results. That's the Scientific Method...which is something that most widget salesmen don't understand.

3. Show me all the posts where "race/culture" are factoring into my ideology. You can't produce one because you have no clue what you are talking about. You're just talking. And don't give me that 300 years stuff. My ancestors on my father's side came here in the 1600's.

Stupid request. Pick a specific political topic or social issue you'd like to discuss, and we can dive into it. It won't take too long.

4. I wasn't talking about Latinos. I never mentioned Latinos. I said LEGAL immigrants.

You never mentioned Latinos? Really? Are you confused? Or, are you just delusional? Fact is, it was YOU who made a point to say your wife is a Latina. And it was YOU who then followed immediately with the statement that most immigrants oppose illegal immigration (which is not different than the rest of the U.S. population), and that most immigrants believe immigration should be decreased (which was a COMPLETE LIE).

5. Hillary lost W. Virginia by 42%. I guess the voters there "took her out of context", too.:mrgreen:

More silliness. Like most Trump acolytes, you like to draw conclusions that reaffirm your existing feelings and biases. But when you're ready to examine some of the body of peer-reviewed, published research that ALL demonstrates that the single-most common variable in Trump supporters was high levels of general racial/cultural resentment....just let me know. Until then, you're wasting my time asking me to indulge in your low-information opinions.

6. Yes, I oppose illegal immigration. I oppose it because I support THE LAW. It's also why I support building the wall, amending our laws and getting rid of sanctuary cities. It's why I support going after visa overstays and punishing employers hiring illegal aliens. It's why I support an expansion of legal guest worker programs. We need to return the system to one of being controlled and orderly. That is best both for our citizens, who should be the primary concern, and for the would-be immigrants to our country. The status quo is unacceptable. Over 1 million people will try to sneak into the country this year and, probably, two thirds will succeed. If you oppose measures to stop that then you support a continuation of the current immigration chaos. Lets' get a handle on that and then we can decide IF anyone is getting deported or not.

Strawman argument. No one "opposes measures to stop illegal immigration". No one. That lie is the basis of the FauxNew-derived narrative about "the left" and immigration. What people absolutely DO OPPOSE are measures that will NOT work, and/or are NOT cost effective....like 2000 mile border walls, and Family Separation policies, and "mass deportation" plans, etc.

Everyone understands that the single most effective way to curb illegal immigration is to target EMPLOYERS not the desperate, penniless migrants who are willing to work for reduced wages and without benefits simply to feed their families. The problem is that REPUBLICANS, not Democrats, have consistently resisted efforts to target employers with strong regulations and penalties. Building a wall to target immigrant job seekers is like targeting drug users in the war on drugs. It will NEVER work.

 

[americanwoman]

Yeah, because whats popular is usually stupid, so that doesn't say much.

Lady Gaga is popular, Taylor Swift is popular, Violent Hip Hop and Misogynistic music is popular, Real housewives of wherever the**** is popular, a show called Scandal is popular, a show called Lucifer is popular. So being unpopular isn't inherently bad.

Care to elaborate your theory on why these two accomplished women are stupid?

 

[RBIII]

Care to elaborate your theory on why these two accomplished women are stupid?

Uh, Taylor swift is teaching a whole generation of girls that relationships are disposable and going childless into your 30's is okay, even though going childless into your 30's greatly increases the chances of your child having down syndrome and other issues. That's stupid.

Lady Gaga is just a bucket of stupid all around

 

[ultmd]

Uh, Taylor swift is teaching a whole generation of girls that relationships are disposable and going childless into your 30's is okay, even though going childless into your 30's greatly increases the chances of your child having down syndrome and other issues. That's stupid.

Lady Gaga is just a bucket of stupid all around

LOL, ok that's dumb.

You need to keep that kind of retrograde thinking to yourself.

New Rule: Stupid people don't get to question the intelligence of others.

 

[RBIII]

LOL, ok that's dumb.

You need to keep that kind of retrograde thinking to yourself.

New Rule: Stupid people don't get to question the intelligence of others.

Might be dumb, but its true

 

[veritas1]

Not every conservative. Hardly. Just conservatives like you. Don't malign every conservative by equating them with you and your ilk. Right wingers like you frequently resort to "group" outrage, when in reality, it's just them (and a few who are like them). Perceptive people recognize it as a sign of weakness.


:lamo
It's hardly "my" research. Next, what the hell do you know about "serious" reseach, anyway, huh? It is abundantly CLEAR that you wouldn't understand it if you ever bothered to read it. It's really rather pathetic when people like you offer up empty-headed declarative statements/judgments (like the above) when EVERYONE knows that you haven't even read a word about the research you are condemning. What the anti-science knuckleheads don't understand is that SCIENCE is not like business. There is no political bias involved. Opinions are guided by results. That's the Scientific Method...which is something that most widget salesmen don't understand.


Stupid request. Pick a specific political topic or social issue you'd like to discuss, and we can dive into it. It won't take too long.


You never mentioned Latinos? Really? Are you confused? Or, are you just delusional? Fact is, it was YOU who made a point to say your wife is a Latina. And it was YOU who then followed immediately with the statement that most immigrants oppose illegal immigration (which is not different than the rest of the U.S. population), and that most immigrants believe immigration should be decreased (which was a COMPLETE LIE).


More silliness. Like most Trump acolytes, you like to draw conclusions that reaffirm your existing feelings and biases. But when you're ready to examine some of the body of peer-reviewed, published research that ALL demonstrates that the single-most common variable in Trump supporters was high levels of general racial/cultural resentment....just let me know. Until then, you're wasting my time asking me to indulge in your low-information opinions.


Strawman argument. No one "opposes measures to stop illegal immigration". No one. That lie is the basis of the FauxNew-derived narrative about "the left" and immigration. What people absolutely DO OPPOSE are measures that will NOT work, and/or are NOT cost effective....like 2000 mile border walls, and Family Separation policies, and "mass deportation" plans, etc.

Everyone understands that the single most effective way to curb illegal immigration is to target EMPLOYERS not the desperate, penniless migrants who are willing to work for reduced wages and without benefits simply to feed their families. The problem is that REPUBLICANS, not Democrats, have consistently resisted efforts to target employers with strong regulations and penalties. Building a wall to target immigrant job seekers is like targeting drug users in the war on drugs. It will NEVER work.

'There's no political bias involved in science?:lamo You really must be gullible.

No, the request isn't stupid. You said that race and culture inform all my opinions. I have over 7,000 posts here. You should be able to put up dozens showing where race and culture drove my position. Naturally, you can't put up any because your claims don't match the reality.

Bwahahahaha...So, West Virginians simply don't like mouthy, middle aged white women from Arkansas. Had nothing to do with her ideas. What a hoot.:lol:

No. I said most legal immigrants and you construed that to mean just Latinos. You made the leap and you were wrong.

No, you don't support measures to stop illegal immigration because if you did, you'd support all the measures I mentioned. Either that or you are so consumed with hate for Trump that you automatically oppose anything he tries to do. People on both sides are trying to undermine all that Trump wants. That includes the Dems but also people like the Koch Bros, the US Chamber of Commerce and the Business Roundtable. They like their cheap labor and the Dems like seeing lot and lots of future voters. The average US citizen is the one who gets the shaft.