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A Liberals Attempt to Understand Conservative Beliefs

Any reason you address president trump as mr?
Do refer to any us president as mr?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

He's just one of us, right? It's not like he's into elitist titles, right?
 
*continued



I don't presume to speak for "Trump supporters". I can only speak for myself.

If anything, you put way too much nonsense in there. I can only surmise that you've been immersed in the Trump hating media and their echo chamber for far too long.

Hopefully, I've helped you.

Thanks. I gleaned all those insights from Trump supporters directly. So, it's just not regurgitation from my liberal bubble. And yes, I find the liberal bubble to be pretty stifling at times.
 
I retired before I turned 58. I've acquired all the "toys" and necessities I need to keep me happy and content, ie: nice home and large property, exotic sports car, more firearms than I'll ever need, etc.
Not bad for an uneducated rural hick, huh?
OIC, so you're one of the baby boomers who built your wealth by raping our natural resources and racking up the national debt that you expect your children to suffer and pay for.

There are only two excuses for supporting Donald Trump. One is that you are a fool, the other is that you are evil. I'll let you decide which label best describes yourself.

What about you?
Me? I make six figures at the age of 36. I'll be fine once my student loans are gone. Unfortunately, my planet and our economy may be ravaged beyond repair by the time I reach your age. Something that you won't be alive to apologize to me for. Not that you'd be willing if you were.

Oh, and about that organic food, Who's gonna teach you how to farm?
Have you ever even met a liberal or a Democrat? I'm from Minnesota. We don't have a DNC there we have a DFL. That stands for Democrat Farmer Labor. The democratic party was specifically founded largely for the purposes of helping family farmers in rural parts of the country, and unlike Trump who's tariffs are ravaging soybean farmers we're still trying desperately to help them. Contrary to what you seem to believe there are a lot more farmers who back Democrats than you seem to realize. You probably wouldn't know that since it's tough to afford an exotic sports car on a farmer's salary.
 
I see this as a metaphor of liberals trying to describe conservatives. All grabbing a piece and declaring with absolute of what it is by just that piece - all wrong because they are unable to see the entirety of what it is.

Not really. You see each liberal is describing conservatives essentially the exact same way, not six different ways. It's pretty easy to see what you are. Pretty much entirely uneducated rural white racist xenophobic sexist gun crazy religious extremists. You can drop any one of those adjectives and it will generally cover about 85-90% of Republicans voters.
 
One of the main reasons I joined this forum is to better understand conservatives, particularly those who continue to support Mr. Trump.

Is it true Trump supporters believe:

  • Mueller is driven primarily, if not solely by partisan motives
  • The intelligence community is in the bag for Democrats
  • Mr. Trump is getting rid of corruption in Washington
  • There is nothing wrong with wanting to retain business interests while being President
  • Even if Mr. Trump was negotiating a business deal with Russians while running for President, that's just business
  • America is now respected, no longer reviled as it was during the Obama Presidency
  • Mr. Trump's gut is superior to a bunch of climate nerd scientists' science
  • There's nothing wrong with getting along with Putin. As a matter of fact, it's a plus
  • Mr. Trump got the best of Kim Jong Un
  • There's nothing wrong with the ever changing positions Trump takes on the Mueller findings
  • Federal Election laws are a joke and breaking them is a "process crime."
  • Mr. Trump is "the least racist person there is" and a strong supporter of women
  • Mr. Trump hires the best people to be in his administration
  • Mr. Trump's transgressions, if real, are no worse than perpetrated by Democrats
  • The Democrats are influencing the justice department and intelligence community by setting "perjury traps" and pressuring people like Cohen, Papadapoulus, Flynn and others into making up fake stories that implicate Mr. Trump
  • Mr. Trump, as President, should never have to face legal charges

This is what I'm concluding are some of his supporters core beliefs. Trump supporters, am I correct? Did I leave anything out.

That's pretty much what I get from reading the posts of Trumpers.
 
Conaeolos,

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I won't go into each detail, since my main goal was to cover the points as I saw them. You've articulated the whole "The Establishment (whatever that is) is EvilCorp" theory pretty well, but I'm baffled at Trump as Eliot Alderson.
I appreciate your curiosity and share your objective to understand both narratives.

He is certainly not who I would have suspected pre-2016 in any way. A President Trump was a joke even when I was young in the 90s.

I would add that it's not so much that I think the Establishment is evil (although I need to be pulled back on that often) nor do I see him as a force interested in shaking up the establishment for the better like say a Ron Paul. Going into 2016, I was expecting to support my Rand Paul principles never giving much thought to the presidency predicting a run between Jeb - Hillary with an easy win for Hillary. Whom I may have voted [depending on platform] unless going third-party. I tuned out a lot of the changes since W. I was expecting to see her going in having a moderate 'blue dog' democratic feel similar to Bill. I was unhappy with the whole affair, but do well either way and consider it all politics as usual.

Problem is two big unexpected factors came onto the scene to shake up that expectation. Trump and Bernie. Bernie was out for me quickly, but I get the appeal. I certainly admit it would be calmer times if he won, though I suspect little would be able to have gotten accomplished. As it played though what happen is a significant shift in Hillary's politics to the left to account for Bernies popularity. I truly respect 'justice democrats' but couldn't disagree more in terms of approach to their priorites. This shift pretty firmly put my label from independent to republican/libertarian right. Although obviously this trend goes way further back than Bernie.It still was a hard choice back when it was Obama or Romney.

Trump was a tad closer to general politics but with the opposite priorities. I was indifferent to open borders, definitely not pro-trade deals but also did think for the most part America benefited, government can't save jobs, presidents don't affect economy, etc...

So what happened? For one, his base which I label disenfranchised liberals convinced me of these problems but more often the utility of Trump. Even shifted my position on few issues.

Meanwhile, Hillary got a new ally in the disenfranchised republicans who hated Trump's populist rebrand which is a weird hybrid of with Reform party ideas. The media/tech went off the deep end[long time coming]. The internet allowed on the ground verifiable reaserch better than mere news reports and access to tons of POV.This shakeup is really the beginning of when it stopped being about partisanship and got all about the establishment fighting back and what it exposed changed everything. This is why the election went as it did. Didn't matter how much you liked or disliked trump. He was the protest vote.

Now, as to my continued support despite the negative reporting post-election. That started right at the beginning and the deliberate choice to not target the "conflict of interests" or like shady aspects like his "charity" (which like most unstaff charities is not to code). No the pro-establishment opposition literally reversed on a whole bunch of their previous postions with one clear and coordinated goal: delegitimize his election though a crazy story about russia. It makes the whole thing stink more than ever and taking my biggest fears to the next level. Trump has plenty of faults but they go for this story I'd expect to hear from Alex Jones. He served an interesting function and in so exposed the true war: on truth. We have a country where there are two movies on the same screen. There is more to that than Liberal and Conservative. Democrat or Republican.
 
Have you ever turned this sort of reflection onto conservatives trying to describe liberals?

Absolutely, I totally do not understand the way the liberal mind works, if I were trying to describe what I think constitutes the liberal make up then I would be one of the 6 six men and an elephant myself. So I try to avoid such all-encompassing generalizations.
 
Anyone can trigger liberals with just a few words, it does not take a Trump to do it.

Yes, racist, sexist or anti-intellectual words. Conservatives are triggered by phrases like "happy holidays" and "fetus".
 
Not really. You see each liberal is describing conservatives essentially the exact same way, not six different ways.

Yes, that is how group mind think usually displays itself

It's pretty easy to see what you are. Pretty much entirely uneducated rural white racist xenophobic sexist gun crazy religious extremists. You can drop any one of those adjectives and it will generally cover about 85-90% of Republicans voters.

Had you quit before you got to this you might have had a halfway decent reply, but you blew it. You do realize racism comes in all colors, right? I find your avatar interesting, you might consider following it.
 
There is a parable of six blind men and an elephant.

1.The first blind man put out his hand and touched the side of the elephant. “How smooth! An elephant is like a wall.”
2.The second blind man put out his hand and touched the trunk of the elephant. “How round! An elephant is like a snake.”
3.The third blind man put out his hand and touched the tusk of the elephant. “How sharp! An elephant is like a spear.”
4.The fourth blind man put out his hand and touched the leg of the elephant. “How tall! An elephant is like a tree.”
5.The fifth blind man reached out his hand and touched the ear of the elephant. “How wide! An elephant is like a fan.”
6.The sixth blind man put out his hand and touched the tail of the elephant. “How thin! An elephant is like a rope.”

I see this as a metaphor of liberals trying to describe conservatives. All grabbing a piece and declaring with absolute of what it is by just that piece - all wrong because they are unable to see the entirety of what it is.

I'm not blind, though. I've watched douche bag after douche bag with Rs next to their names treat the treasury like their personal fund, treat the poor like criminals and women and gays like second class citizens.

It would take a blind man not to notice that Trump is a very dangerous, reckless and stupid elephant who is trampling our American values for personal gain. It makes me wonder just how blind the right is not to notice.
 
I appreciate your curiosity and share your objective to understand both narratives.

He is certainly not who I would have suspected pre-2016 in any way. A President Trump was a joke even when I was young in the 90s.

I would add that it's not so much that I think the Establishment is evil (although I need to be pulled back on that often) nor do I see him as a force interested in shaking up the establishment for the better like say a Ron Paul. Going into 2016, I was expecting to support my Rand Paul principles never giving much thought to the presidency predicting a run between Jeb - Hillary with an easy win for Hillary. Whom I may have voted [depending on platform] unless going third-party. I tuned out a lot of the changes since W. I was expecting to see her going in having a moderate 'blue dog' democratic feel similar to Bill. I was unhappy with the whole affair, but do well either way and consider it all politics as usual.

Problem is two big unexpected factors came onto the scene to shake up that expectation. Trump and Bernie. Bernie was out for me quickly, but I get the appeal. I certainly admit it would be calmer times if he won, though I suspect little would be able to have gotten accomplished. As it played though what happen is a significant shift in Hillary's politics to the left to account for Bernies popularity. I truly respect 'justice democrats' but couldn't disagree more in terms of approach to their priorites. This shift pretty firmly put my label from independent to republican/libertarian right. Although obviously this trend goes way further back than Bernie.It still was a hard choice back when it was Obama or Romney.

Trump was a tad closer to general politics but with the opposite priorities. I was indifferent to open borders, definitely not pro-trade deals but also did think for the most part America benefited, government can't save jobs, presidents don't affect economy, etc...

So what happened? For one, his base which I label disenfranchised liberals convinced me of these problems but more often the utility of Trump. Even shifted my position on few issues.

Meanwhile, Hillary got a new ally in the disenfranchised republicans who hated Trump's populist rebrand which is a weird hybrid of with Reform party ideas. The media/tech went off the deep end[long time coming]. The internet allowed on the ground verifiable reaserch better than mere news reports and access to tons of POV.This shakeup is really the beginning of when it stopped being about partisanship and got all about the establishment fighting back and what it exposed changed everything. This is why the election went as it did. Didn't matter how much you liked or disliked trump. He was the protest vote.

Now, as to my continued support despite the negative reporting post-election. That started right at the beginning and the deliberate choice to not target the "conflict of interests" or like shady aspects like his "charity" (which like most unstaff charities is not to code). No the pro-establishment opposition literally reversed on a whole bunch of their previous postions with one clear and coordinated goal: delegitimize his election though a crazy story about russia. It makes the whole thing stink more than ever and taking my biggest fears to the next level. Trump has plenty of faults but they go for this story I'd expect to hear from Alex Jones. He served an interesting function and in so exposed the true war: on truth. We have a country where there are two movies on the same screen. There is more to that than Liberal and Conservative. Democrat or Republican.

Interesting and thoughtful response.

The only things that got caught in my craw were "his base which I label disenfranchised liberals " and the crazy story about Russia. Do you dismiss the unanimous intelligence findings about Russian meddling in our election? And are you not troubled that many many of Trump's people met with Russians connected w Putin and denied having done so? These two events should convince anyone that there's nothing "crazy" about the Russian connection.
 
One of the main reasons I joined this forum is to better understand conservatives, particularly those who continue to support Mr. Trump.

Is it true Trump supporters believe:

  • Mueller is driven primarily, if not solely by partisan motives
  • The intelligence community is in the bag for Democrats
  • Mr. Trump is getting rid of corruption in Washington
  • There is nothing wrong with wanting to retain business interests while being President
  • Even if Mr. Trump was negotiating a business deal with Russians while running for President, that's just business
  • America is now respected, no longer reviled as it was during the Obama Presidency
  • Mr. Trump's gut is superior to a bunch of climate nerd scientists' science
  • There's nothing wrong with getting along with Putin. As a matter of fact, it's a plus
  • Mr. Trump got the best of Kim Jong Un
  • There's nothing wrong with the ever changing positions Trump takes on the Mueller findings
  • Federal Election laws are a joke and breaking them is a "process crime."
  • Mr. Trump is "the least racist person there is" and a strong supporter of women
  • Mr. Trump hires the best people to be in his administration
  • Mr. Trump's transgressions, if real, are no worse than perpetrated by Democrats
  • The Democrats are influencing the justice department and intelligence community by setting "perjury traps" and pressuring people like Cohen, Papadapoulus, Flynn and others into making up fake stories that implicate Mr. Trump
  • Mr. Trump, as President, should never have to face legal charges

This is what I'm concluding are some of his supporters core beliefs. Trump supporters, am I correct? Did I leave anything out.

The problem in trying to understand today's conservatives is that they keep moving farther and farther to the right. By the time you think you understand what they stand for they have moved that much farther to the right. It is kind of like to be seen in the crowd of those who call themselves conservatives, you have to farther out than anyone else.
 
Absolutely, I totally do not understand the way the liberal mind works, if I were trying to describe what I think constitutes the liberal make up then I would be one of the 6 six men and an elephant myself. So I try to avoid such all-encompassing generalizations.

Anyone can trigger liberals with just a few words, it does not take a Trump to do it.

Alright.
 
Do you dismiss the unanimous intelligence findings about Russian meddling in our election?
Yes. That is not to say I think they are false rather misleading as they were politicalized similar to reports used to justify the Iraq war. Certianly worthy of further investigation but not actionable moves just like in that case.

Motive for IntelCom being two fold:
1. Hinder Wikileaks [who I believe a whistle blower organization who released leaks not hacks]
2. Justify further funding and power: foreign actors all do activities during an election(e.g. RT). It's a real security concern, however, I don't even think Russia is to the levels of the Ukraine, let alone countries like China, Israel or Saudi Arabia.Why the magnifying glass there when there has yet to any report showing out of scope influence or scale[slightly increased if you think they are the source for wikileaks]. I suppose you could argue their more of an Enemy, being less connected economically/politcally and thus having to most to gain with a weaken US, but that's not exactly true considering their current abiity to expand influence.

And are you not troubled that many many of Trump's people met with Russians connected w Putin and denied having done so?
To date I have seen less connections than to most politicians, especially, say Hillary Clinton. I have seen no damning meeting, connection nor seen moves by Muller which would indicate he believes these connections were nefarious in a way supporting that narrative.

These two events should convince anyone that there's nothing "crazy" about the Russian connection.
Jimmy Dore is quite far left. He hates Trump in every way. He has alway doubted the same narrative. Is he crazy?

"his base which I label disenfranchised liberals "
Fair, his priority set in my view doesn't fit either the modren conservative tent based on principles nor the modren democrats, and in that case even less so...your probably right though and I should say populist conservatives.
 
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OIC, so you're one of the baby boomers who built your wealth by raping our natural resources and racking up the national debt that you expect your children to suffer and pay for.

There are only two excuses for supporting Donald Trump. One is that you are a fool, the other is that you are evil. I'll let you decide which label best describes yourself.


Me? I make six figures at the age of 36. I'll be fine once my student loans are gone. Unfortunately, my planet and our economy may be ravaged beyond repair by the time I reach your age. Something that you won't be alive to apologize to me for. Not that you'd be willing if you were.


Have you ever even met a liberal or a Democrat? I'm from Minnesota. We don't have a DNC there we have a DFL. That stands for Democrat Farmer Labor. The democratic party was specifically founded largely for the purposes of helping family farmers in rural parts of the country, and unlike Trump who's tariffs are ravaging soybean farmers we're still trying desperately to help them. Contrary to what you seem to believe there are a lot more farmers who back Democrats than you seem to realize. You probably wouldn't know that since it's tough to afford an exotic sports car on a farmer's salary.

laughing_out_loud_by_sp3ranza-d5bn9q6.jpg



I am evil!
 
One of the main reasons I joined this forum is to better understand conservatives, particularly those who continue to support Mr. Trump.

Is it true Trump supporters believe:

  • Mueller is driven primarily, if not solely by partisan motives
  • The intelligence community is in the bag for Democrats
  • Mr. Trump is getting rid of corruption in Washington
  • There is nothing wrong with wanting to retain business interests while being President
  • Even if Mr. Trump was negotiating a business deal with Russians while running for President, that's just business
  • America is now respected, no longer reviled as it was during the Obama Presidency
  • Mr. Trump's gut is superior to a bunch of climate nerd scientists' science
  • There's nothing wrong with getting along with Putin. As a matter of fact, it's a plus
  • Mr. Trump got the best of Kim Jong Un
  • There's nothing wrong with the ever changing positions Trump takes on the Mueller findings
  • Federal Election laws are a joke and breaking them is a "process crime."
  • Mr. Trump is "the least racist person there is" and a strong supporter of women
  • Mr. Trump hires the best people to be in his administration
  • Mr. Trump's transgressions, if real, are no worse than perpetrated by Democrats
  • The Democrats are influencing the justice department and intelligence community by setting "perjury traps" and pressuring people like Cohen, Papadapoulus, Flynn and others into making up fake stories that implicate Mr. Trump
  • Mr. Trump, as President, should never have to face legal charges

This is what I'm concluding are some of his supporters core beliefs. Trump supporters, am I correct? Did I leave anything out.
Those are NOT conservative beliefs, they are cherry-picked nonsense from LW urban legends.
 
One of the main reasons I joined this forum is to better understand conservatives, particularly those who continue to support Mr. Trump.

Is it true Trump supporters believe:

  • Mueller is driven primarily, if not solely by partisan motives
  • The intelligence community is in the bag for Democrats
  • Mr. Trump is getting rid of corruption in Washington
  • There is nothing wrong with wanting to retain business interests while being President
  • Even if Mr. Trump was negotiating a business deal with Russians while running for President, that's just business
  • America is now respected, no longer reviled as it was during the Obama Presidency
  • Mr. Trump's gut is superior to a bunch of climate nerd scientists' science
  • There's nothing wrong with getting along with Putin. As a matter of fact, it's a plus
  • Mr. Trump got the best of Kim Jong Un
  • There's nothing wrong with the ever changing positions Trump takes on the Mueller findings
  • Federal Election laws are a joke and breaking them is a "process crime."
  • Mr. Trump is "the least racist person there is" and a strong supporter of women
  • Mr. Trump hires the best people to be in his administration
  • Mr. Trump's transgressions, if real, are no worse than perpetrated by Democrats
  • The Democrats are influencing the justice department and intelligence community by setting "perjury traps" and pressuring people like Cohen, Papadapoulus, Flynn and others into making up fake stories that implicate Mr. Trump
  • Mr. Trump, as President, should never have to face legal charges

This is what I'm concluding are some of his supporters core beliefs. Trump supporters, am I correct? Did I leave anything out.


I think you nailed it. Thing is, 40 years ago, most of it wouldn't not have been the case. Sad how they have spiraled into a cult death dance.
 
Conservatives like Trump because he triggers liberals. They don't care that he's incompetent and corrupt. It's that simple.


Well, if that is true, it's evidence of stupidity, foolishness, and lack of wisdom.
 
Well, if that is true, it's evidence of stupidity, foolishness, and lack of wisdom.

Nah, we just have a sense of humor. It's funny watching you liberals relying on play doh, coloring books and therapy pets, among a host of excuses why Hillary lost.
 
Nah, we just have a sense of humor. It's funny watching you liberals relying on play doh, coloring books and therapy pets, among a host of excuses why Hillary lost.

I have heard that University Safe Spaces love aroma therapy candles!
 
Well, if that is true, it's evidence of stupidity, foolishness, and lack of wisdom.

I listen to conservative radio. These people think liberals are essentially Stalin. So to them, it's a choice between a corrupt Trump and Stalin. I guess I would pick Trump over Stalin too.

But that's the mentality we're talking about. They have so entirely demonized Democrats and liberals that Trump's corruption is tolerable compared to the alternative -- *gasp* liberals.
 
~ I currently do not support either party out of disgust and disappointment at what I have witnessed over the past 5 decades. I stopped trusting government when my dear brother returned from Vietnam in a casket in 1969.
As far as I am concerned the current crop of Republicans are lazy - and the Democrats have gone crazy. There is nothing democratic about today's "liberal progressive " movement. I see Democrats as a Marxist / soft Communism push away from the US Constitution and national sovereignty towards big government 'new world order '.
My political savvy friend tells me I am "conservative leaning libertarian " ... Who knows ? I voted Trump because of his agenda and in your face facts - the USA is going down the toilet. It's likely our children and grandchildren will not live in the strong, independent America that I grew up in - and that does not have to happen.
Personally I believe Trump - or somebody like him - is 20 years too late. But there is always hope. ..
 
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