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A leftist in the New York Times just can't understand why Trump supporters won't agree with him...

Captain Adverse

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That is the title of the following video presented for review and comment:



Some may know, or recall that Dr. Karlyn Boysenko Ph.D in Psychology, was a 20-year registered Democrat. Self-admittedly very "Left"-Liberal until she decided to engage "Trump Supporters" with an actual open-mind after attending a New Hampshire Trump rally some time ago.

Since then she has been dealing with the results from her once-friends who (to put it colloquially) thinks she drank the "Trump Kool-Aid."

In the video she uses one example, (and IMO a valid one) of how those on the Left both think of, and deal with, those they consider "Trump Supporters."

Basic takeaways?

1. The Left thinks the Right is "evil," while the Right thinks the Left is "misinformed." As a result, the Left views those they label Right as "The Enemy;" but the Right views the Left as "misled."

2. That when someone on the Left seeks to "engage" with someone on the Right, they are trying to convert them to their ideal of "Moral Good." While the Right is simply asking the Left to open their own minds to different views.

3. That despite the author of the NYT opinion piece claiming to "listen," he did no actual listening but lots of trying to "convert." That he failed to actually "reach out" with an open mind to hear the other side. Thus he created a self-fulfilling prophecy exemplified in his own words as "we cannot help people who refuse to help themselves."

IMO this has occurred over and over in every aspect of Media, and Social Media including our own Forum. Using the tactics of Moral Panic to divide this nation's population "emotionally."

A moral panic is a feeling of fear spread among a large number of people that some evil threatens the well-being of society. A Dictionary of Sociology defines a moral panic as "the process of arousing social concern over an issue – usually the work of moral entrepreneurs and the mass media".

Moral panics have several distinct features. According to Goode and Ben-Yehuda, moral panic consists of the following characteristics:

Concern – There must be the belief that the behaviour of the group or activity deemed deviant is likely to have a negative effect on society.

Hostility – Hostility toward the group in question increases, and they become "folk devils". A clear division forms between "them" and "us".

Consensus – Though concern does not have to be nationwide, there must be widespread acceptance that the group in question poses a very real threat to society. It is important at this stage that the "moral entrepreneurs" are vocal and the "folk devils" appear weak and disorganized.

Disproportionality – The action taken is disproportionate to the actual threat posed by the accused group.

Volatility – Moral panics are highly volatile and tend to disappear as quickly as they appeared because public interest wanes or news reports change to another narrative.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic

Arguably (and sadly) IMO this is frequently reflected in the tenor of posts to this very Forum.

https://debatepolitics.com/threads/...of-emotionalism-and-political-bigotry.421148/
 
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1. The Left thinks the Right is "evil," while the Right thinks the Left is "misinformed." As a result, the Left views those they label Right as "The Enemy;" but the Right views the Left as "misled."

Captain, I've run into that kind of thing, myself. In real life (yes, I do have a real life), I have liberal friends and conservative friends, and many of my liberal friends see conservatives as "hopeless." They think conservatives have serious mental flaws that they will probably never be able to overcome. Therefore, my liberal friends think that debating against conservatives is a huge waste of time.

However, my conservative friends don't mind spending hours trying to convince my liberal friends to come over to their side. Like you said, Captain, my conservative friends don't doubt the intelligence of the liberals, but believe that they are falling for a lot of shallow arguments, usually based on emotion.

I, personally, always try to listen to opposing viewpoints, and I never assume that anybody is "stupid" or "dumb." That's because I never know when somebody might say something that will cause a spark in my mind and will end up teaching me something I really needed to know. Believe me, when you are as ignorant as I am, every little bit helps.
 
Karlyn Borysenko became a Trump supporter in mid-February 2020, well before the COVID-19 pandemic mismanagement by Donald Trump and the anti-democracy Trump events that have transpired to this day.

She very well may have rejoined her Liberal (leftists' to you) friends by now.

The author of the article ‘Reach Out to Trump Supporters,’ They Said. I Tried. - Wajahat Ali went to a Trump rally and endured Trumper attacks on Representative Ilhan Omar, the other "Gang of Four" members, and Muslims in general.
 
1. The Left thinks the Right is "evil," while the Right thinks the Left is "misinformed." As a result, the Left views those they label Right as "The Enemy;" but the Right views the Left as "misled."

I listen to conservative talk radio all the time. They believe that liberals are Marxists bent on destroying the country by turning it into the Soviet Union. They believe Democrats are planning to outlaw religion or teach Islam in schools.

Jon Voight said Biden and Democrats are "evil"

 
I listen to conservative talk radio all the time. They believe that liberals are Marxists bent on destroying the country by turning it into the Soviet Union. They believe Democrats are planning to outlaw religion or teach Islam in schools.

Jon Voight said Biden and Democrats are "evil"


I don't think anyone's saying there aren't those on the right who demonize. Each party has its fringe. Ad hominem, however, is a far more common tactic from the liberal mainstream than from the mainstream right.
 
you can't reason with the current Confederates.
 
^^^ Exhibit A.
you also couldn't reason with slave holders, those that never wanted women voting and those that would kill to stop interracial relationships. they had to pass away before the country moved forward.

sorry if that hurts.
 
you also couldn't reason with slave holders, those that never wanted women voting and those that would kill to stop interracial relationships. they had to pass away before the country moved forward.

sorry if that hurts.
^^^ Exhibit B.
 
Frankly I no longer give a crap what Trump supporters agree with or who for that matter. Trump is trying to take down the entire Republic and turn it into a tin horn autocracy complete with fake elections and disenfranchised citizens just so he can stay in power. Until Trump supporters detest that as much as I do, I don't give a crap about them. Joe Biden can give a crap about them when he takes the Oval. Me, I can afford not to care.
 
I don't think anyone's saying there aren't those on the right who demonize. Each party has its fringe. Ad hominem, however, is a far more common tactic from the liberal mainstream than from the mainstream right.
A fringe that demonizes?

President Trump said that if Joe Biden is elected there will be no God.
 
I don't think anyone's saying there aren't those on the right who demonize. Each party has its fringe. Ad hominem, however, is a far more common tactic from the liberal mainstream than from the mainstream right.

The core of the right are Christian right wingers and they associate liberals with Satan. It's not just a few people on the right like you claim.

They either claim liberals are Marxists or they are Satanic.

How many people on the right believed Obama wasn't born in the U.S. or that Obama was Muslim?

I try to be objective. I was always a registered independent. I was once a Republican. Again, I try to listen to both sides. I watch FOX News sometimes. I listen to conservative radio a lot. I can honestly say that the problem is on the Right.

The Right has detached itself from reality. Liberals are either Marxist communists or Satanic baby-killers to the right. Please don't pretend that this is only a few people.
 
The core of the right are Christian right wingers and they associate liberals with Satan. It's not just a few people on the right like you claim.

They either claim liberals are Marxists or they are Satanic.

How many people on the right believed Obama wasn't born in the U.S. or that Obama was Muslim?

I try to be objective. I was always a registered independent. I was once a Republican. Again, I try to listen to both sides. I watch FOX News sometimes. I listen to conservative radio a lot. I can honestly say that the problem is on the Right.

The Right has detached itself from reality. Liberals are either Marxist communists or Satanic baby-killers to the right. Please don't pretend that this is only a few people.
That is the major problem.
We aren’t arguing about policy anymore. We are arguing about reality.
 
The core of the right are Christian right wingers and they associate liberals with Satan. It's not just a few people on the right like you claim.

They either claim liberals are Marxists or they are Satanic.

How many people on the right believed Obama wasn't born in the U.S. or that Obama was Muslim?

I try to be objective. I was always a registered independent. I was once a Republican. Again, I try to listen to both sides. I watch FOX News sometimes. I listen to conservative radio a lot. I can honestly say that the problem is on the Right.

The Right has detached itself from reality. Liberals are either Marxist communists or Satanic baby-killers to the right. Please don't pretend that this is only a few people.
That's just what I'd expect a Marxist in goat-leggings to say. ;)
 
Texas Bishop Backs Priest Claiming Democrats Are Going to Hell

Ted Cruz: Far Left Hates Christians, Obama Trained by Harvard's Marxist Elites

"The far left has always had a strong anti-American streak and it's always had an antipathy for Christians," declared Cruz.

How many times have we heard how the left don't love America. The left is anti-American. And if you kneel because of police brutality then you don't love America. Anyone who disagrees with the Right is anti-American.
 
That is the title of the following video presented for review and comment:



Some may know, or recall that Dr. Karlyn Boysenko Ph.D in Psychology, was a 20-year registered Democrat. Self-admittedly very "Left"-Liberal until she decided to engage "Trump Supporters" with an actual open-mind after attending a New Hampshire Trump rally some time ago.

Since then she has been dealing with the results from her once-friends who (to put it colloquially) thinks she drank the "Trump Kool-Aid."

In the video she uses one example, (and IMO a valid one) of how those on the Left both think of, and deal with, those they consider "Trump Supporters."

Basic takeaways?

1. The Left thinks the Right is "evil," while the Right thinks the Left is "misinformed." As a result, the Left views those they label Right as "The Enemy;" but the Right views the Left as "misled."

2. That when someone on the Left seeks to "engage" with someone on the Right, they are trying to convert them to their ideal of "Moral Good." While the Right is simply asking the Left to open their own minds to different views.

3. That despite the author of the NYT opinion piece claiming to "listen," he did no actual listening but lots of trying to "convert." That he failed to actually "reach out" with an open mind to hear the other side. Thus he created a self-fulfilling prophecy exemplified in his own words as "we cannot help people who refuse to help themselves."

IMO this has occurred over and over in every aspect of Media, and Social Media including our own Forum. Using the tactics of Moral Panic to divide this nation's population "emotionally."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic

Arguably (and sadly) IMO this is frequently reflected in the tenor of posts to this very Forum.

https://debatepolitics.com/threads/...of-emotionalism-and-political-bigotry.421148/

Do you acknowledge that many of our right wing members, including yourself, also often engage in the tactics of Moral Panic? Is this attempt to divide emotionally a sign of our times, or the SOP of one particular party?
 
The leadership of the party is not the fringe.

Exactly, how can Trump be the fringe? He's the leader of the Republican party now. He's like their god. They practically worship him.

Only a few Republicans have opposed Trump.
 
This is a prime example of someone who has no understanding of people on the right.

How many times have we heard how the left don't love America. The left is anti-American.

I've heard it quite often and I'm sure I've even expressed it from time to time myself...

Making such a statement is a process. It starts when we witness words or behavior from the left that belittle or demean the country, it's founding, it's values and/or it's actions on the world stage.

Example: Burning the American flag at protests. That flag represents this country and became a common thing for me to see in the 1970's (mostly coming out of Iran), when it became a ritual for America's enemies in countries throughout the world. Burning the American flag is a declaration of anti-American hatred and opposition. Then in the 80's flag burning became something engaged in by leftist organizations during their protests, demonstrations and riots. We responded by saying that burning the flag doesn't represent opposition to a policy or action, it represents opposition to America itself that's engaged in by enemies of the United States... Yet to this day, it continues to take place at leftist protests and gathering.

So it started with "Your actions (burning the flag) are un-American"... When it continued without anyone prominent on the left objecting to it, or trying to stop it, it became "The left hates America".

Such words and sentiment from the right aren't born out of political opposition, they are derived from the words and actions we've witnessed over the years from those on the left.


And if you kneel because of police brutality then you don't love America.

No, if choose to kneel in protest during our National Anthem, a tribute to the people who fought and died for our freedom and independence, the underlying message is irrelevant. You are purposely showing a blatant disrespect for the country and refusing to honor the thousands who sacrificed their lives so we could be here today.

It's not the gesture against police brutality that's disrespectful to the nation, it's the manner in which you express it.


Anyone who disagrees with the Right is anti-American.

Not true. Undermining the nations Judeo Christian values, the principals of individual freedom we were founded on, and trying to fundamentally remake our economic system are things that are un-American. Simple disagreement with policy proposals and ideological differences do not make anyone anti-American.
 
So we're gonna pretend that right wingers haven't called liberals evil, communists, mass murderers, nazis, etc?
 
I've heard it quite often and I'm sure I've even expressed it from time to time myself...

Making such a statement is a process.

Yeah, that's why we keep calling you fascists. It's a process. We've seen enough fascist behavior from right wingers to know they are fascists.

Haven't seen any prominent Republicans deny this to some arbitrary standard, so I assume that means you, Grim17, have accepted the label.
 
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