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A journey along the entire 1,933-mile US-Mexico border shows the monumental task of securing it

WCH

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For those who just don't understand.

From western California to eastern Texas, across four US states and 24 counties, the 1,933-mile US-Mexico border criss-crosses arid desert, rugged mountains, and winding rivers.

For 654 of those miles, fencing separates the two countries from each other.

The 7.3 million people who live in the border counties on each side of the line have watched for years as security grew tighter and illegal crossings tapered off.

In just the last 12 years, the US government built the barriers, deployed troops, and started using advanced surveillance technology — all in an effort to tame and control some of the wildest and remotest land in the United States.


snip...

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-mexico-border-wall-photos-maps-2018-5
 

ttwtt78640

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For those who just don't understand.

From western California to eastern Texas, across four US states and 24 counties, the 1,933-mile US-Mexico border criss-crosses arid desert, rugged mountains, and winding rivers.

For 654 of those miles, fencing separates the two countries from each other.

The 7.3 million people who live in the border counties on each side of the line have watched for years as security grew tighter and illegal crossings tapered off.

In just the last 12 years, the US government built the barriers, deployed troops, and started using advanced surveillance technology — all in an effort to tame and control some of the wildest and remotest land in the United States.


snip...

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-mexico-border-wall-photos-maps-2018-5

What needs to be understood is that the motives (reasons?) for crossing the border are many and widely varied. Not so many years ago, one could walk or drive relatively freely and legally across various (official?) crossing points between the US and Mexico. Shoppers, diners and/or bar hoppers freely crossed between Brownsville, TX and Matamoros, Mexico with the only formality being to pay a modest fee and possibly some additional tax/tariff on certain items purchased "over there". Such brief shopping, dining and/or partying trips were rarely seen as "international travel" and required no passport or visa whatsoever - showing one's drivers license was all that was required.

The purpose for the addition of "border security" was not to tame the land it was to hassle people as if many (most?) had some evil intent for simply wanting to travel across the Rio Grande (in either direction). We went from essentially open borders towards maximum security as if we had entered a permanent state of war. Was it the war on drugs, the war on terror or the war on illegal immigration (human trafficking?) which "required" that transformation? I really don't know.

I can see the rationale for making folks show a valid, state issued, photo ID, to cross the border at desiganted checkpoints and to pay taxes/tariffs on their international purchases but that was sufficient "border security" for most of my life.
 

PirateMk1

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What needs to be understood is that the motives (reasons?) for crossing the border are many and widely varied. Not so many years ago, one could walk or drive relatively freely and legally across various (official?) crossing points between the US and Mexico. Shoppers, diners and/or bar hoppers freely crossed between Brownsville, TX and Matamoros, Mexico with the only formality being to pay a modest fee and possibly some additional tax/tariff on certain items purchased "over there". Such brief shopping, dining and/or partying trips were rarely seen as "international travel" and required no passport or visa whatsoever - showing one's drivers license was all that was required.

The purpose for the addition of "border security" was not to tame the land it was to hassle people as if many (most?) had some evil intent for simply wanting to travel across the Rio Grande (in either direction). We went from essentially open borders towards maximum security as if we had entered a permanent state of war. Was it the war on drugs, the war on terror or the war on illegal immigration (human trafficking?) which "required" that transformation? I really don't know.

I can see the rationale for making folks show a valid, state issued, photo ID, to cross the border at desiganted checkpoints and to pay taxes/tariffs on their international purchases but that was sufficient "border security" for most of my life.

8 million plus and rising every year illegals competing for jobs is why the border is tightening up. We just cant take that many in and remain successful. Look at my home state of California. We warned and warned and were ignored. Now look. Bakersfield south may as well be in Mexico. A lot of the signs are converting to Spanish. A lot of blue collar work is being taken over exclusively by Hispanic workers.
 

Kal'Stang

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For those who just don't understand.

From western California to eastern Texas, across four US states and 24 counties, the 1,933-mile US-Mexico border criss-crosses arid desert, rugged mountains, and winding rivers.

For 654 of those miles, fencing separates the two countries from each other.

The 7.3 million people who live in the border counties on each side of the line have watched for years as security grew tighter and illegal crossings tapered off.

In just the last 12 years, the US government built the barriers, deployed troops, and started using advanced surveillance technology — all in an effort to tame and control some of the wildest and remotest land in the United States.


snip...

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-mexico-border-wall-photos-maps-2018-5

Nothing worth doing is ever easy. :shrug: I would much prefer to go a different route than a wall though.
 

ttwtt78640

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8 million plus and rising every year illegals competing for jobs is why the border is tightening up. We just cant take that many in and remain successful. Look at my home state of California. We warned and warned and were ignored. Now look. Bakersfield south may as well be in Mexico. A lot of the signs are converting to Spanish. A lot of blue collar work is being taken over exclusively by Hispanic workers.

Yep, yet neither party is doing a damn thing about it. Some like the downward pressure on wages and others like the demographic changes in voters and thus simply want to keep illegal immigration as "an issue". There are simply not enough congress critters left (outside of those aforementioned groups) to push for mandatory eVerify to prevent keeping it very profitable to employ illegal immigrant workers.
 

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8 million plus and rising every year illegals competing for jobs is why the border is tightening up. We just cant take that many in and remain successful. Look at my home state of California. We warned and warned and were ignored. Now look. Bakersfield south may as well be in Mexico. A lot of the signs are converting to Spanish. A lot of blue collar work is being taken over exclusively by Hispanic workers.

Now look at...what?

A state with a huge budget surplus and great economy that produces a huge amount of the nations food supply?

Tragic.

Unless you just see the crisis as having Hispanic workers existing instead of white ones, I guess.
 

PirateMk1

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Now look at...what?

A state with a huge budget surplus and great economy that produces a huge amount of the nations food supply?

Tragic.

Unless you just see the crisis as having Hispanic workers existing instead of white ones, I guess.


I see the crisis as being a lot of those people are illegals taking jobs from natives and being allowed to and encouraged to vote to maintain a Democratic strangle hold on this state. Unfortunately the Republicans here are gutless pussies.
 

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I see the crisis as being a lot of those people are illegals taking jobs from natives and being allowed to and encouraged to vote to maintain a Democratic strangle hold on this state. Unfortunately the Republicans here are gutless pussies.

CA unemployment rate is like 4%- essentially full employment.

Again... not a crisis.

Unless you are a white supremacist.
 

PirateMk1

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CA unemployment rate is like 4%- essentially full employment.

Again... not a crisis.

Unless you are a white supremacist.

Illegals ARE a crisis. Period. They artificially keep wages down.
 

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Yes. You’ve clearly demonstrated that.

They speak Spanish and are Hispanic and take jobs away from whites.

You were very clear.

And we see how wage growth is getting just crushed in CA.

California Cities Lead the U.S. in Personal Income Growth - WSJ

Oh, wait.

You seem to like implying I am a racist because I dont want illegals in my country. Grow a pair and actually come out and say it. That is if you the stones to. People tend call people racists because they usually have nothing better to say and they tend to be retarded braindead idiots. I have my opinion on the matter where you are concerned on that particular front. I wonder if in fact you an even surmise the rather unsubtle implication.

The question I have is why do you hate your fellow Americans so much? Why do you begrudge them a good wage by encouraging illegals to come and suppress their wages? Why do you begrudge your fellow Americans good fair working conditions that follow the law? Why is it you support illegals being forced to work in slave labor conditions? Do you support the cartels? Do you support slavery?

That income growth is not happening at the bottom of the wage scales with the sole exception that California raised the minimum wage. Unlike you I have lived in the state and ran a business here. I am in the process of leaving. You go right ahead and stick your head in the sand.
 

VanceMack

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Leftists after Barrack and Sxchumer and Pelosi vote for 6.5 billion to erect border security fences
"Thats responsibly enforcing US immigration law!"

Also leftists after Trump calls for a 5 billion dollar wall
"Thats racist! Border walls never work!!!"
 

Threegoofs

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You seem to like implying I am a racist because I dont want illegals in my country. Grow a pair and actually come out and say it. That is if you the stones to. People tend call people racists because they usually have nothing better to say and they tend to be retarded braindead idiots. I have my opinion on the matter where you are concerned on that particular front. I wonder if in fact you an even surmise the rather unsubtle implication.

The question I have is why do you hate your fellow Americans so much? Why do you begrudge them a good wage by encouraging illegals to come and suppress their wages? Why do you begrudge your fellow Americans good fair working conditions that follow the law? Why is it you support illegals being forced to work in slave labor conditions? Do you support the cartels? Do you support slavery?

That income growth is not happening at the bottom of the wage scales with the sole exception that California raised the minimum wage. Unlike you I have lived in the state and ran a business here. I am in the process of leaving. You go right ahead and stick your head in the sand.

I’m sure those brown people who hang Spanish signs outside aren’t going to feel bad about the loss.

And the California economy will continue to do well, despite the hit it will
Take from you’re departure and all the immigrants that seem to be fueling its growth.
 

WCH

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Nothing worth doing is ever easy. :shrug: I would much prefer to go a different route than a wall though.

I wish I could trust my neighbors to not steal my stuff from my unlocked home or vehicle but, that's just not realistic.
 

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8 million plus and rising every year illegals competing for jobs is why the border is tightening up. We just cant take that many in and remain successful. Look at my home state of California. We warned and warned and were ignored. Now look. Bakersfield south may as well be in Mexico. A lot of the signs are converting to Spanish. A lot of blue collar work is being taken over exclusively by Hispanic workers.

This is a real and legitimate complaint of American blacks. Immigrants tend to move into black communities for lower housing costs. As their numbers grow, employers only want bilingual employees - cutting blacks out of employment in their own community. Who illegal immigrants most harm are low income American Latinos and American blacks.
 

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I’m sure those brown people who hang Spanish signs outside aren’t going to feel bad about the loss.

And the California economy will continue to do well, despite the hit it will
Take from you’re departure and all the immigrants that seem to be fueling its growth.

The California economy is a disaster and THE USA model of the collapse of the middle class and with rich white people and their horde of low income Latino servants.
 

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The wall could get fully funded today and it's still not going to get built for any number of reasons. Congress passed the Secure Fence Act in 2006 and 12 years later, land expropriation for the fence in some locations is still tied up in the courts and this bill only authorized 652 miles of fence, not 2,000. And no one should be surprised it hasn't worked. Where it exists, people routinely tunnel under the fence, jump the fence, even build ramps up and over the fence.

Two, the type of terrain the border traverses is not suited for a "one size fits all barrier." Roughly half the border runs along the Rio Grande and Colorado Rivers. Rivers flood and change course over time. It's not a question of if, but when, the wall falls into these rivers.

Three, Trump is proposing the wall be 55 feet high. Customs and Border Patrol doesn't even want it because it eliminates "situational awareness" of being able to see what's happening on the other side.

Four, it's going to be a money pit. Getting back to the Secure Fence Act, it was estimated by Customs and Border Patrol that maintenance and upkeep (for 654 miles of fence, remember) would cost $1 billion over 20 years. Maintenance for Trump's wall is estimated to cost $750 million annually.

Five, in the great scheme of things, undocumented aliens coming over the southern border is a drop in the bucket compared to undocumented aliens that come in legally then overstay their visas.

I'm sure there are many, many other arguments for why the wall is a flat-out stupid idea, but I came up with these five without even having to put much thought into it.
 

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The California economy is a disaster and THE USA model of the collapse of the middle class and with rich white people and their horde of low income Latino servants.

Yes, so many people are leaving that real estate prices are cheaper there than anywhere else in the nation.
 
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